at what point did grind core and black metal become the hipster music du jour?

About 5 or 6 years ago, I guess.

"dude, black metal man - that's the future of rock!"

Also don't go to these bars.

it's odd, cuz people talk about entirely different stuff in the bars i go to

plus, did anybody ever tell you you look like mccauly culkin? cuz yeah

Grind core 5 or 6 years ago... the white belt brigade and all. But black metal it definitely feels like the past 2 years it's been adopted by a certain clique, kinda like noise drone if you were into that in the 90s.

Anyway, it's Brooklyn, go figure; at the same bar some dude gave me a referral to his agent.

was his agent SATAN?

yes, from the dark nether reaches of the hollywood screenwriting community. here's a representative sketch:

http://www.evcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/jew-monster.jpg

FUCKING HIPSTERS , AM I RITE?

nah, my jeans are as tapered as anybody you'd call a hipster and my plaid shirts as untucked, I just think it's interesting

at what point did gri

at what point did anti-semitism become the hipster humor du jour?

when the 'fag' jokes got old

does it make me a hipster that i always seem to take an interest in certain subgenres independently-but-simultaneously as the Girlpants Hordes? ie i got into napalm death & painkiller about 2 years ago

Well, a few people who aren't satanists started listening to black metal....

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that Black Metal is somehow more accessible to women than a lot of other more overtly macho and less "artsy" metal.

And where the girls go, others follow...

not to cast aspersions but nobody actually describes black metal as "the future" of anything, do they? The glory days were the early nineties, i.e. fifteen years ago or so. I enjoy a lot of recent black metal - Cirith Gorgor and Peste Noire both have some great recent stuff - but black metal has as much to do with the future as ska does

This must be a US phenomenon, black metal's still pretty underground here as far as I know. Then again I don't really know any of these hipster people, though I think I've seen some in Hoxton.

also hoos no being interested in multiple genres does not make you a hipster, but spending any time wondering whether you are one probably means you are

chap, I suspect first and foremost this is a burt_stanton phenomenon

I will always remember this thread as the first time I ever saw grindcore spelled as two words

Grindcore and Black Metal are kind of opposite ends of the extreme metal spectrum, no?

black metal has as much to do with the future as ska does

lol

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that Black Metal is somehow more accessible to women than a lot of other more overtly macho and less "artsy" metal.

waht

no wai

"dude, black metal man - that's the future of rock!"

Also don't go to these bars.

-- Alex in SF, Thursday, 31 January 2008 05:28 (9 hours ago) Link

^^^

anti-semitism has always been the hipster humor du jour thanks to self-hating jews.

But I'm serious, since 2006 at least black metal's been put up on a pedestal--even listening to WFMU instead of that Beezlebub dude playing that shit, it was one of the hipstery Brooklyn DJs going on about all the "sonic possibilities" of black metal.

It's also being namedropped ironically--watch out, it could come to a town near you.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think i dislike you

http://www.chriscassell.net/log/graphics/skate/smith.jpg
http://www.kidsgeo.com/images/earths-outer-core.jpg

What hipsters listen to grindcore?

i think i dislike you

-- John Justen, Thursday, January 31, 2008 3:26 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

You love me jsut like you love liquid outer core

all i know is that the kids coming into the store that are black metal dudes are the furthest thing from hip. which is also why they are awesome.

It's hip to be black metal.

it's hip to be square metal

These people Im' talking about do look like old school metal dudes (one guyt was wearing an old Dark Throne shirt), but it seems like there was lke this surge in them, especially considering black metal pretty much ceased to exist after 2001. Yes, I've heard people call it the new "punk".

of course my life coudl b e one elaborate hallcunation

I've only got into black metal since 2004 or so when I started reading ILM, grindcore a few years before that, but that didn't have anything to do with hipster trends, more the ease of trying out different genres since I got a computer and have access to P2P! I got into grindcore by listening to heavier/faster hardcore punk until I was into Extreme Noise Terror/early Napalm Death and went from there.

The only person I know IRL who's into black metal sits behind me at work and is a stereotypical geek, not a hipster at all. He is a cool dude though.

ah, the rise of p2p... that might explain it. but I still stand, there's a certain hipster set that has adopted black metal as some fashion forward kind-of thing, and it makes no sense to this former teenage metal geek.

hipster(n): One who is less hip and more stylish than you.

for the purpose of this post, hipster = subculture, rather than pejorative.

Lords of Chaos?

it pretty much comes from when the wire started repping Sunn O)) about 2002 which opened them up to the more hipstery noise/drone/electronica audience and Stephen O'malley/greg anderson were always being asked on their influences, id never heard of burzum before that. Still think they are pretty rubbish to tell you the truth O'Malley started hanging round the arts festival nosie crowd and went from metal bonehead with one idea to outsdier art babe of the year collaberating with banks viollette and loads of graphics geezers started knockin out norwegian metal influenced art and T's. So its pretty much buy the t-shirt then work backwards from that

especially considering black metal pretty much ceased to exist after 2001

I suspect first and foremost this is a burt_stanton phenomenon

-- DJ Mencap, Thursday, 31 January 2008 12:39 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

For the purpose of this post, "nigger" = black, rather than pejorative.

at what point did grind core and black metal become the hipster music du jour?

During the last 30 seconds of Sonic Youth's 'Mildred Pierce'.

loads of graphics geezers started knockin out norwegian metal influenced art and T's. So its pretty much buy the t-shirt then work backwards from that

not sure it's that simple, but OTM anyway

Hipsters don't read the wire.

ahh, that explains it. All my conversations start with seeing someone wearing a really old school looking underground t-shirt, and that's when they go on about the "future of rock, maaaan".

It's probably related to all that noise shit anyway, which was also originally big in the 90s but has gone through the same art kid appreciation revival.

That's yr prob right there. Don't talk to people who don't have the dignity and self-esteem to wear a proper button-down shirt in public.

i wasnt saying all hipsters read the wire, but its on the a lot of the east london arty/outsider folks reading list and they tend to set a lot of the trends of the day. check this article on the sunn/violette collaberation, set in the heart of east londons art/ponce community about 100 yards from my girlfriends flat

http://artforum.com/diary/id=11138

thurston moores helping him out

wasn't o'rourke taking tips from and talking up grindcore and metal since the late 90s?

were there more than like 500 h1psters worldwide in 98?

genuine qn

oh that was in reference to contenderizer's post about hipster-friendly noise dudes repping it starting around 2003. i think there definitely was a trickle-down effect.

also: in 98 we called them scenesters iirc?

would you consider 97 or 98 year zero for the h1pster renaissance?? or is it later than that?

i haven't finished the n+1 book on the subject. i don't feel qualified to answer

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sarahell thats kinda a copout just iye

i don't remember using the term hipster to describe you-know-who until like 2002/2003?

in 2001 the arts space i used to run was described by some free weekly writer as "so hip it sucks" - we were gonna make t-shirts that said that but never did

i think 2002 was when i first heard the term a lot but my impression was that like 97-99 was when the 'idea' of the h1pster started to take coalesce out of the disparate artists and skateboards and metalhead bike messengers and junkie trustfunders and punks other assorted dreamers that existed in those same urban spaces before that?

i agree tho that metal was always part of the h1pster dna

yeah, i just don't remember using that term at the time. 97-99 were the years of the dot-com yuppie scum tho. we didn't hate hipsters as much back then. they were on "team us"

yeah i wonder if its impossible to divorce my idea of the early h1pster ren from ideas about new york neighborhoods. or montreal neighborhoods i guess. when was ryan mcginley's first show like 99? according to wikipedia the dalkey archive reprinted 'concluding' in 00...

i mean tzadik records, 'kids', 'the age of wire and string', the clinton boom years, dropping crime rates, black sabbath t-shirts, idk

i mean the gummo soundtrack had tonnes of metal on it didnt it? you cant get more foundational than that! and its 97 too...

i don't think it came out until 98 - did it? or rather, when did a majority of people actually see it? i saw at the sf int'l film festival in 98. i think i was going to see something else, but then my ex-bf called and wanted advice about how to get rid of an asshole roommate and i didn't leave in time to see what i'd intended to see.

i double checked on it got a limited release in the fall of 97. i feel like there was like stoner metal in some of those mid/late 90s greg araki movies? its funnie that 'burt' talks about going to gorgorth shows as a disaffected suburban teen, feel like thats p 'formative' in the idea of h1pster sociaesthetic, all those recycled images of waste and anxiety.

did the fort thunder guys like metal? when did that start around this time too, right?

think if we're looking for "hipster"/indie metal axes the Melvins are kinda central to the origin story

or 'My War'

xxp - yeah, around 97, i think - shortly after i left pvd is all i know for sure and i left in 96

flying luttenbachers might have something 2 do wit it

are you trolling me he1geson?

no. i just was thinking back to ye olden tymes and they kinda did metal-ish stuff within the context of post Jesus Lizard noisy guy/Skin Graft rock stuff that was going on at the time (at least in my memory)

the Gods of Chaos era - they were on Skin Graft at the time iirc

i guess saw 'em first around the time of "revenge" a package skin graft tour with them, maple, you fantastic!, and local mpls skin grafters colossomite played, mark the label head dude did like weird carboard box robot puppet show stuff in between bands

awesome line up!

also you fantastic had lost their gear or got it stolen or something so they did a mostly "acapella" set which was o_O to say the least

but why did you think i was trolling idgi?

can confirm that when i used to go to black metal shows in 2001/2002 it was the most un-hip thing ever. no more no core no trends no fun etc

xp - because i'm a huge Luttenbachers fan and I post about them on a semi-regular basis?

is black metal not inherently anti-hipster?

when did spin do that black metal thing in the 90's? i think it was the 90's. first time i read a non-metal mag thing on bm.

black metal kind of a black hole of hipsterism. the whole exclusivity thing. limited editions. cassettes. you aren't cool enough to listen to this, etc.

death metal has all that but it's never been hip.......yet

yeah it has

grind/death kinda hip in late 80's/ early 90's earache days. i mean, people were definitely buying carcass records who weren't metalheadz back then. john peel and all that.

i don't remember too much exclusivity other than normal teenage 'us vs. them' attitudes. i was never into limited editions ALTHO i did get a really cool cassette of a live mayhem gig (but cassettes were still a thin then) and my emperor picture disc is still the coolest record i own.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7057/20120312171710.jpg

there was an overall anti-trendyness thing going on in bm. i guess whether hipsters are 'trendy' or not depends on your perspective and i don't think hipsters existed in my world then.

grind/death kinda hip in late 80's/ early 90's earache days. i mean, people were definitely buying carcass records who weren't metalheadz back then. john peel and all that.

― scott seward, Monday, March 12, 2012 1:07 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

For real. When I was freaking out about Boredoms in 90-93 and playing them for everyone who would listen I kept hearing 'you need to check out Napalm Death and Carcass'.

(not OTM, as I discovered)

grind/death kinda hip in late 80's/ early 90's earache days. i mean, people were definitely buying carcass records who weren't metalheadz back then. john peel and all that.

― scott seward, Monday, March 12, 2012 10:07 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, sure, or thrash & crossover in the 80s. but i think that there was an explosion of interest in metal, esp doom and black metal, in the first half of the last decade. that particular boom had its roots, i think, in stuff that happened in the 90s and early 00s. specifically (again, and sorry for harping on this), the publication of lords of chaos, first in '98, then expanded and republished in '03. gummo's another good touchstone, out in '97, but not seen by most until several years later. i don't think it came out on DVD until 2001 (?). vice magazine started pushing black metal in the early 00s, as i recall. sunnO))) attracted a lot of art and noise types to southern lord and the "scene" in general.

didn't napalm death appeal to hipsters like, from the first moment they became a band?

grunge fans getting into doom shouldn't have shocked anyone really. Melvins/Soundgarden especially.

I think once bands like Napalm and Extreme Noise Terror started getting attention outside of anarcho/thrash type circles, the labels that released their stuff rly flagged up the novelty value 'lol songs are short' thing to appeal to the h1pster equivalents of the time

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Grindcrusher-The-Earache-Sampler/release/367419

a single with two seconds of music on!! these guys are BARMY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJjuxBG4SZY&feature=related

did the 90's american powerviolence scene ever cross over into indie/hepcat land? i don't remember this happening at all, but maybe i just wasn't paying attention. seemed like that stuff should have cuz of the uber-violent nature of the music a la japanoise. maybe discordance axis did a bit cuzza the new wave album covers.

does college radio count as indie/hepcat land? i remember forgetting to tape a slap-a-ham marathon.

it doesn't count if its the local college hardcore radio show. they have existed as long as hardcore has.

it was on a show almost exclusively devoted to black metal, which makes me think black metal is sort of hipsterish on inception.
i can't imagine it appealing to kids without a fair amount of disposable income.

Certainly Naked City had to have played a role in ... something.

naked city and boredoms definitely gave people a taste for the hard stuff. they were 100% hip city. their entire audience was beatniks.

"did the 90's american powerviolence scene ever cross over into indie/hepcat land?"
kinda a bleed there with the 31G/Gravity recs axis yeah, who as it happens were the first irl dudes i heard rocking darkthrone etc