Albums loved by critics, loathed by their very creators

Where's every Pinkerton thread ever?

rivers likes pinkerton. omar and cedric kind of hate "relationship of command." i dont really like it either.

Transformer - Lou Reed

He hates it I believe.

Also, maybe Eno's early stuff...dunno about LOATHE though.

yeah, Rivers really bigged-up Pinkerton in a recent (Pitchfork?) interview...

I thought circa 2001 he'd completely rejected it?

Chilton doesn't like 3rd/ Sisters- Lovers much

Station to Station - Bowie

He way too high to remember.

He was

Chilton doesn't like 3rd/ Sisters- Lovers much

boy, that's one I'll never understand...

Blur - The Great Escape

Time Fades Away always gets love from everyone except Neil Young himself (not even on cd, etc.).

KISS - Lick it Up.

Bad Religion Into the Unknown

Chuck, did I ever tell you the story about how I got a punk DJ at KUCI into that album? He ended up loving it so much he named his long-running show after it.

The correct answer is The La's - for Mavers at least, but I guess his opinion is the one that matters b/c he wrote all the songs.

I don't think he used any language as strong as "loathed" but I distinctly remember reading an interview with Mick Jagger 10-15 years ago where he was very critical of Exile.

Lee Mavers did, in fact, loathe that record in interviews...I gave up any hope of hearing his preferred mix years ago...

maybe "very critical" should read "rather dismissive"

In Mavers' defense, the production is a little thin, so I can see where he's coming from. On the other hand, I don't think the degree of perfection he is/was seeking exists on planet Earth.

didn't Go! Discs just say at some point, "we're out of money lads, let's just get this thing on the racks"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(album)

Perhaps ashamed of its less than stellar critical and commercial response – or maybe just reflecting the angst that had kept him from rallying behind the album in the first place – in 2001, Cuomo would frequently make claims to how much he hated Pinkerton. He told Entertainment Weekly:

“ It's a hideous record... It was such a hugely painful mistake that happened in front of hundreds of thousands of people and continues to happen on a grander and grander scale and just won't go away. It's like getting really drunk at a party and spilling your guts in front of everyone and feeling incredibly great and cathartic about it, and then waking up the next morning and realizing what a complete fool you made of yourself.[58] ”

David Sylvian usually dismisses his work with Japan (besides solo-esque tracks like "Ghosts"), which annoys me to no end.

I've been reading the Roxy Music biography 'Both Ends Burning' and both Manzanera and Mackay dismiss a few tracks on 'Siren' as throwaways, which also kind of bothered me.

re: La's - Something like that. I don't know if Mavers was exactly trying to pull a Loveless as far as shifting producers/engineers and extending studio time goes, but I believe at some point that the label intervened and strong-armed him into releasing it before it was "complete."

Effigies - Fly On A Wire

American Music Club - San Francisco (along with about half of what they put out overall)

Pitchfork: How do you feel about Pinkerton now, as it's become a sort of cult favorite, and the favorite of many Weezer fans?

RC: Pinkerton's great. It's super-deep, brave, and authentic. Listening to it, I can tell that I was really going for it when I wrote and recorded a lot of those songs.

so which is it?!

"I hated it when I thought people hated it, but now that I know people love it, I think it's awesome."

yah. rivers is mentally ill in case you havent noticed.

Do the Desperate Bicycles loath their discography, or do they want it to remain out of print as the temporary and informal outburst it was intended to be?

Andy Partridge hated "Skylarking" at the beginning, but I think he has accepted by now that Todd Rundgren did indeed do a good job.

Brian Wilson for some time wasn't too fond of "Pet Sounds" either. Mainly because it didn't sell. And because The Beatles released "Sgt. Pepper" just a few months afterwards.

it's a single not an album, but caleb's' "baby your phrasing is bad" 45

Prince wasn't too proud of Parade for awhile. Supposedly thought it was a rushed, overproduced mess. *scratches head*

"Kiss" overproduced? Drums, bass and a few synths? :)

Parke Puterbaugh gave the Who's it's hard five stars in rolling stone in 1982 (said it was their best since who's next). roger daltrey said of the record, "i hate it! hate it, hate it, hate it!"

of course, in this case it should be "loved by critic" (singular) as no one else in the universe gave it even a middling review. and even Who die-hards can't bring themselves to tolerate it.

it's a single not an album, but caleb's' "baby your phrasing is bad" 45 <--- wtf, this rules! What does he prefer, his session work w/Elton John?

The Beta Band's thing?

Parke Puterbaugh gave the Who's it's hard five stars in rolling stone in 1982 (said it was their best since who's next). roger daltrey said of the record, "i hate it! hate it, hate it, hate it!"

He and Kurt Loder debate Loder's review of Pink Floyd's The Final Cut in the RS green room.

Here's one

Be HEre Now - Oasis

(I am kidding, but Christgau gave it either one or two stars.)

Ha, you might be right on Pinkerton, Dan, but if you look at the ages it kind of makes sense:

- blurt out a bunch of embarrassing stuff at age 19
- spend your mid-to-late 20s going "OMG that was embarrassing"
- get toward 30 and it's not so embarrassing anymore, plus people start saying the equivalent of "no, you were so CUTE when you were 19"

Killing Joke hate Fire Dances.

8 Diagrams?

wtf, this rules! What does he prefer, his session work w/Elton John?

he probably does! apparently he point blank won't discuss it, and it's almost certainly his best work

Stephen Malkmus dismisses Slanted and Enchanted as a lo-fi Fall ripoff, although Spiral Stairs thinks its their best album.

Do the Desperate Bicycles loath their discography, or do they want it to remain out of print as the temporary and informal outburst it was intended to be?

-- bendy, Thursday, 31 January 2008 23:01 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

I think it's more a case of disagreements amongst the band members, I think Dan Selzer knows the facts.

How about Metal Machine Music? Perhaps not *loved* by critics, but certainly not deserving of "If you make it to side four, you're dumber than me" from Lou.

In searching for the wording of that comment, I realised it was pretty much critically panned then, bur lauded now. So does it fit?

no, he likes the album.

am I full of shit, or do I remember reading an interview with Chris Bailey of the Saints in which he dismisses (I'm) Stranded in favor of the band's "more mature" later albums?

i wouldn't be surprised, but that might be more directed at kuepper rather than the music itself?

Stereolab apparently hate Transient Random Noise Bursts with Announcements.

Not loathed, but Luomo thinks vocalcity is wildly overrated, and doesn't like it very much.

(I am kidding, but Christgau gave it either one or two stars.)

"Be Here Now" was seen as the biggest and most important thing ever in the rave NME review just after its release. It didn't last for too long though (and back then, the Gallagher's - high on Coke - saw it as their definite masterpiece too)

I remember Noel saying it was a load of "Pub rock bollocks" a week before it came out.

Maybe it was Liam who was so excited about it. (He probably had even more of a Coke problem than Noel at the time too)

"Between The Buttons" received kind of good reviews, didn't it? Mick Jagger was quoted at the time saying it's shit really, and that the only good song therein is "Backstreet Girl" (or was it "Flowers" that he said that about?)

Liam still likes it.

"Backstreet Girl" is on BTB, so probably yes. "Flowers" was a catch-up rarities collection.

I suppose "SatanicMaj" would count here. Inasmuch as Modernday critics love it. THey didn't back then.

That first Beta Band record is hardly loved by the critics.

Anyway, various members of Radiohead have gone on the record saying they don't like Amnesiac very much. Radiohead OTM here!

Movement by New order (although I think the reviews were patchy at best, at the time)

I'm pretty sure I've read that Movement is one of Hook's favourite NO albums.

I don't know what Omar thinks of it (he'd wandered off by this point in my interview with the two of them) but Cedric has kinda soured on De-Loused In The Comatorium, and doesn't have all that many nice things to say about Rick Rubin as a producer. He still likes the Tremulant EP, though, and has many fond memories of Alex Newport. Which makes this old Fudge Tunnel fan happy.

RE: New Order and Movement

From Wikiepedia...

"With the release of Movement in November 1981, New Order initially started on a similar route as their previous incarnation, performing dark, melodic songs, albeit with an increased use of synthesizers. The band viewed the period as a low point, as they were still reeling from Curtis's death. Hook commented that the only positive thing to come out of the Movement sessions was that producer Martin Hannett had showed the band how to use a mixing board, which allowed them to produce records by themselves from then on.[5]

i don't think even the most excessive coke habit can get the gallaghers off the hook for what is one of the most creatively starved records i can think of off the top of my head.

cedric is right to be self-critical of the coma-inducing 'de-loused...'.

Graham Coxon was never very keen on The Great Escape.

Meanwhile, under the parallel category of "albums loved by critics but whose very existence is denied by their creators": Sing Slowly Sisters by Robin Gibb.

RE: New Order and Movement

Quoted on various sites:
Mojo (9/01, p.86) - "...A nervy mess. Edging towards a new Northern model of awkward angst disco....One of bassist/vocalist Peter Hook's favourite New Order albums..."

Maybe Hook's had a change of heart...

Judging by the nbr of times NO play any Movement song live (ie. never), i doubt it ranks very high in their opinion.

Parke Puterbaugh gave the Who's it's hard five stars in rolling stone in 1982 (said it was their best since who's next).

This was the moment I realized Rolling Stone reviews are sometimes fishy and I remember thinking Thriller wouldn't be anything special because they gave that five stars too.

Stephen Malkmus dismisses Slanted and Enchanted as a lo-fi Fall ripoff

In so doing, he's also ripping off Mark E. Smith's opinion of the record.

irony infinity

This was the moment I realized Rolling Stone reviews are sometimes fishy and I remember thinking Thriller wouldn't be anything special because they gave that five stars too.

I think this was the beginning of their now-entrenched policy of giving absurdly glowing reviews to mediocre (or just plain crappy) records in exchange for an interview with/access to the artist/band. Sure enough, they got their Who interview a few issues later.

not that musicians ply their trade to appease critics, but imagine putting out something you just don't like, and seeing glowing review after glowing review...would you think you got lucky?...would you think your career as you know it is over, since you will probably always be judged against that thing you despise, and have no desire to re-visit?

In Britain Thriller was slagged off something rotten by the critics when it was released - "bad imitation of Off The Wall with gimmicks" was the general line. Over here it was all set for the bargain bins about a month after release, and then the "Billie Jean" video came out and suddenly everything changed.

Yeah, good ol' Danny Baker, as I recall.

I distinctly remember reading an interview with Mick Jagger 10-15 years ago where he was very critical of Exile.
I remember hearing the same outta Richards. One of my favorite records.

I wonder what Syd Barrett thought of his solo albums?

roger waters has much scorn for 'atom heart mother'

hardly adored by critics, however. but in some circles it's considered a masterpiece.

"Nevermind", anyone?