TS: 1980-84 Vs. 1985-89

Obviously 80-84 all the way!

85-89 great years for LOLindie though: later (ie good) Smiths, peak period Sonic Youth, C86 jangly, Throwing Muses, Lifes Rich Pageant etc etc etc.

Shockingly omitted from 1980-1984: 2nd wave punk, e.g. the best band from Edinburgh as voted by ILM - the Exploited.

uhhhh geir you missed a lot of music in both halves of the decade

i think geir should take a break from polls and instead ask other people what they think about stuff

80-84 by a light year

80-84 because that's Maiden's golden years.

rhythim...

I think about half of my record collection is new wave, postpunk, synthpop etc. '85 on, I wasn't as interested in teh rock and started listening more to African music and New Orleans brass bands.

it's the poll that had to be made.

80-84

85-89 had more texture.

80-84 = more ground broken
85-89 = rampant overproduction

oh that overproduced house music of the late 80s.

Shockingly omitted from 1980-1984: HARDCORE!!

Yeah, and for the record I omitted around 500 other genres from both halves too.

85-89 for the rap and metal

80-84, the seeds were sown

85-89 the fruit was picked.

85-89 was the time that started w/ Jesus and Mary Chain, Creation(ism), indietwee, more melodicism, and actually getting to grips with the methods of production.

So there you go.

Obviously 85-89 all the way!

85-89 was the time that started w/ Jesus and Mary Chain, Creation(ism), indietwee, more melodicism, and actually getting to grips with the methods of production.

No signs of actual production was heard in indie/alternative until "Nevermind" and even more Britpop. Before that it was all about just recording the band playing, usually with the vocals mixed way too low and generally way too much reverb. The only signs of stereo separation laid in the reverb.
I have never liked the typical 80s indie production-style.

Bollocks. Oh why am I even bothering...

Not Production in that sense!

I mean, the means of manufacture and distribution and oh .. bondage up yours.

I was wondering about that... I expect Geir to talk bollocks, not you

Well, the "more mel" was a blatant buttonpress, I admit, but then...

All my favourite "new romantics, synthpop, new pop" rekkids are from 1985.

Strawberry Switchblade, Since Yesterday
Nik Kershaw, The Riddle
The Art Of Noise, Close (To The Edit)
Duran Duran, The Wild Boys
Marillion, Kayleigh,Lavender
Depeche Mode, Shake The Disease
Animotion, Obsession
Dream Academy, Life In A Northern Town
Scritti Politti, The Word Girl
Harold Faltermeyer, Axel F
Red Box Lean On Me, (Ah-Li-Ayo)
Jan Hammer, Miami Vice Theme
Pet Shop Boys, West End Girls

These are from 1984:
Nik Kershaw, The Riddle
The Art Of Noise, Close (To The Edit)
Duran Duran, The Wild Boys

Ah, i wasn't getting the chart entry date from everyhit.com, my bad.

ok how about a-ha, take on me *and* the sun always shines on tv.

and the cure, inbetween days & close to me.

1985 was, in a lot of ways, a grey area between the first and last half of the decade. You still had many of the same big names. New Romantics/synthpop was still huge, and house and hip-hop were still very much underground things. Hair metal was growing in important but there was still no "Slippery When Wet" or "Hysteria", which were the two albums that brought hair metal up from just a genre of heavy rock to the dominant kind of AOR towards the end of the decade.

What was already very evident in 1984-85 was the increasing use of FM synthesis and sampling-based synth-sounds though. Neither "Relax" nor "You Spin Me Round" could have been made in 1981.

80-85 for chart pop, 85-89 for pretty much everything else. The latter then.

dig out the brilliant thread about all the classic albums that were released in 1987, and i think you'll understand why i pick the second option.

1984 and 1988 spring to mind as great years album-wise. '88 had Isn't Anything, Daydream Nation, Surfer Rosa, By All Means Necessary, Life's Too Good, Spirit Of Eden, Green, Critical Beatdown, er, some others.

I should point out I was born in 1981 so I heard all this stuff retrospectively rather than at the time.

weirdly, the aforementioned albums of 1987 thread has disappeared.
what the fucks going on ?
actually, i suspect it was a sandbox thread but you can never have too many klf references if you ask me.

80-84

early 80s win here, if only because hip-hop's "golden era" is only partially represented in 88-89. rock in the late 80s was pretty dire.

85-89 easy

early 80s win here, if only because hip-hop's "golden era" is only partially represented in 88-89.

it's pretty well represented by 86-89 though.

'88 had Isn't Anything, Daydream Nation, Surfer Rosa, By All Means Necessary, Life's Too Good, Spirit Of Eden, Green, Critical Beatdown, er, some others.

I don't like 88 at all. But then, other than "Green" (which is OK but no more) I don't like any of those. 80s indie is generally underproduced and overrated. Indie got much better in the 90s and 00s when it became more catchy with more production values.

85-89 for the following reasons:

The creative peak years for my favorite 80's bands (Pet shop Boys, Smiths, New Order).
The birth of Shoegaze (JAMC/My Bloody Valentine).
C86, twee-pop & indie-dance
Late Italo/Italo-house

80's indie is generally underproduced
Yes.

Indie got much better in the 90s and 00s when it became more catchy with more production values
No.

generqlly speaking:
80-84: classic for the
post punk
85-89 dud casue of electronic new wave and shitty production

'generally' meaning 'within the ambit of shitty guitar music'.

a few years ago i would have said late 80s in a mfing heartbeat (house, hip-hop, techno, 'technique', uh, mbv/spacemen 3/pixies); i think it's a tougher contest now, but still say late 80s in the end.

I don't like 88 at all. But then, other than "Green" (which is OK but no more) I don't like any of those. 80s indie is generally underproduced and overrated. Indie got much better in the 90s and 00s when it became more catchy with more production values.

I think it varies - the production on the Sonic Youth albums sounds fine to me. Of course if you just don't like SY I guess it doesn't matter. '90s is more 'my' era so those are the sounds I grew up being used to I suppose. MBV were pretty catchy too if you ask me, the songs on Isn't Anything are pretty simple but, y'know, good hooks.

What I am able to make out of MBV is kind of catchy. But they are probably the worst case of all of the vocals being mixed way too low. Which means those tunes cannot really be heard anyway.

Indie got good around 1993, when Blur did "Modern Life Is Rubbish" and Suede debuted. The 80s were all about synthpop and new romantics - two genres that were first and foremost great around the first half.

What I am able to make out of MBV is kind of catchy. But they are probably the worst case of all of the vocals being mixed way too low. Which means those tunes cannot really be heard anyway.

Indie got good around 1993, when Blur did "Modern Life Is Rubbish" and Suede debuted. The 80s were all about synthpop and new romantics - two genres that were first and foremost great around the first half.

British pop of that sort was definitely stronger in the first half of the decade, yeah. Apart from the Pet Shop Boys and New Order I'd struggle to think consistently good disco-derived/synthpop acts of that era. Erasure and Depeche Mode maybe? The S/A/W stuff has some nostalgia value for me but it's not something I'd really want to listen back to today.

To make a huge, sweeping generalisation: the first half better for pop, second better for the underground (or at least less mainstream) stuff... particularly hip hop, house and techno.

yeah i'd buy that.

well, i don't listen to house techno and hip hop so what do i know

Geir, don't you think the part of the point of indie is to have unconventional (what you call bad) production values? If Loveless was all "perfectly" mixed with each part being identifiable and clean, it wouldn't BE Loveless, would it?

Apart from the Pet Shop Boys and New Order I'd struggle to think consistently good disco-derived/synthpop acts of that era. Erasure and Depeche Mode maybe?

Depeche Mode I don't see as part of the same thing by the late 80s anymore, but "Black Celebration" is one of the best albums of the entire 80s, so... :)
But Erasure, yes. They got better when they started using analog synths in the early 90s though. "Chorus" was the pinnacle of Erasure's output, I would say.
I also feel that ABC's "How To Be a Zillionaire" and "Alphabet Street" were not at all bad. But nowhere near the greatness of "Lexicon Of Love". Thompson Twins and Howard Jones both released great albums in 1985, but kind of lost it later on.

Scritti Politti and Prefab Sprout also recorded some great albums based on a very typical late 80s digital/FM synth sound. But they cannot really be put in the same category.

Geir, don't you think the part of the point of indie is to have unconventional (what you call bad) production values?

First and foremost, the point of indie was giving band the possibility to produce an album without having a major behind you who was willing to give the needed economic support. This meant less studio time and maybe not as good equipment in the studios. Which in turn led to bad production. The punk/new wave bands of the 70s were still kind of better though, with more stereo separation and a sharper sound with more obvious instrument separation. Plus there was this annoying thing in virtually all 80s guitar rock to have way too much reverb. Even big names such as U2 did that, but it was still extremely annoying.

If Loveless was all "perfectly" mixed with each part being identifiable and clean, it wouldn't BE Loveless, would it?

It would have been different. And IMO better. At least of the melodies held up, which I have the impression they did.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

the poll is closing, but dont worry, geir just keeps on going

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.