Northern Soul: Classic Or Dud?

I looked at the song list's on one of the Wigan Casio websites. The songs are B side stuff. They are esoteric, and they were not hits in the USA. Etta James was from the 1950's. She sang "answer" songs to Hank Ballard's "Work With Me Annie". She was past her prime in the 1970's.

Since I was never at Wigan, my opinion is qualified. But in my mind, I would have to say it was a fad. A nice social dance club maybe, but not the best. The American R&B/Motown era had better examples.

How did the "Average White Band" fit into the Northern Soul/Wigan Casino calculus? The AWB was very popular in the 1970's in the eastern USA. "Cut the Cake" and "Pick Up the Pieces" were great hits and received a lot of airplay. Were they an outgrowth of the Northern Soul UK movement? I would rather dance to AWB than a lot of that other material.

It may have been pseudo-Motown - actually, a lot of it *is* Motown, including the most expensive single ever (?), Do I Love You by Frank Wilson. Unsurprisingly, a whole load of teeny-weeny record labels released tons and tons of stuff trying to emulate Berry Gordy's success - but it certainly wasn't substandard. In fact, I'd say that on the whole it's much, much better, largely because Motown's glossy (by sixties standards at least) production puts me off a bit. I prefer music that's a bit rough around the edges and I also think that by lyrical standards, most Northern records can match anything H- D-H or Robinson came up with.

It'd be misguided to make Northern Soul synonymous with the Wigan Casino though. In fact, there was quite a big split between the music policy there and, say, the Blackpool Mecca. Some clubs kept pushing forward and finding soul that was released in the seventies, even disco-ish in feel, while others kept badgering record companies to search through their vaults for records that had failed miserably when they were first released in the sixties. The Casino is also probably responsible for most of the dodgy cash-in instrumentals that were released when Northern Soul went (briefly) overground. Footsee springs to mind...

Oh dear, speedy typing in your lunch hour isn't the best way to be persuasive and I just haven't got time to write any more. Anyone interested in buying a good Northern compilation can generally trust anything on Goldmine Records (although buy too many of their CDs and you'll start getting duplicate songs) or Kent, which I think is the better of the two. A good book is The In Crowd by Mike Ritson and Stuart Russell, although it tends to have too many lists of which records were played where. Avoid anything touched by the hand of Ian Levine. His video box set is criminal, as is his association with East 17.

Hmm, I think I'd better leave it there. But CLASSIC! Did I say that already?

...but what I wonder is how come it's become (a certain type of ) indie kids' dance music of choice? Is it cos it's there's no drum machines, sequencers etc - and so it's a kind of anti-modernist solution to what to play at discos? Or is it cos it's a much *girlier* mode of soul than all that gritty shouty southern stuff? Or is there a parallel to be drawn to be drawn between the trebly two minute rush of - say - 'Touch Me, Hold Me, Kiss Me' and, I dunno, 'Therese' by the Bodines... Whatever the answer, I couldn't move at Sunday's indie alldayer for bowlie kids essaying soft shoe shuffles to some Goldmine comp or other.

Interestingly, Chris Geddes - who's probably done more than most to keep the flame alive - was seen at ATP playing a set of squelchy early 80s electro...

As for Chris Geddes playing squelchy electro stuff, perhaps that's a natural progression, after all wasn't the Casino based Northern scene just part of the evolution of large scale dancing events, which started off with your dance halls in the 50s and now reaches it's peak in the so called super clubs such as Fabric and Home and went via the electro based block-parties of the early 80s and the raves of the early 90s?

Anyway, enough of that..... classic

I'm also unsure what you mean by *girlier*. Singers, people who like the music or just general feel? There's a temptation to mix up Northern with sixties girl groups, but it's not really the same thing... I wouldn't necessarily describe Northern as shouty and gritty, but are those not as much feminine attributes as masculine? Shouty, in particular, I think we do quite well :) Tim will have to answer the southern soul thing - he's far more qualified than me.

"Whatever the answer, I couldn't move at Sunday's indie alldayer for bowlie kids essaying soft shoe shuffles to some Goldmine comp or other."

Um, half a dozen people and a box of singles? Were we even at the same gig? &c.

Um, I think that's everything :)

Northern soul, on the other hand, is of course the stuff which was popular in certain discotheques in the North of England and which remains popular to this day. The sound is based mostly around uptempo, beaty numbers with strong horn or string parts and lots of nice gutsy singing. Although a lot (probably most) of this stuff is Motown, or heavily influenced by Motown, you only need to look at the material which makes it onto Kent compilations to see how eclectic that scene was. There's a great one which features everything from a Maxine Nightingale to the lush likes of Little Anthony, to beaty US garage punk tunes by the likes of The Human Beanz. Plenty of Southern stuff makes it into the mix of even the most purist of Northern soulies too (I seem to recall Ann Sexton being very popular last time I paid much attention, and she made all her best records in Nashville and Memphis (and perhaps Muscle Shoals, I forget).

I'd agree that a certain sort of roughness was popular in the South (Bobby Bland, for example, or the likes of Geater Davis) which probably doesn't translate to Northern Soul discos.

As regards the question, I'd say neither classic nor dud. It's a genre and as such has its fair share of classics, mediocre moments and duds. I suppose by virtue of it consisting of records picked by DJs (rather than record releases) it benefits from an additional phase of quality control. However, I think a lot of what we hear at Northern soul discos is utterly, utterly generic tripe and bores the life out of me. Some, of course, is completely brilliant. I detest the purism, obscurantism and one-upmanship, which is more pronounced in Northern than in almost any other scene I can think of. I like the dancing though, when practised by others.

Well, you did ask...

How did the Average White Band relate to all of this? It seems they the UK's local homegrown version of Motown/Funk? They were quite good. Did they play live at the local dance halls ala Wigan Casino? Or were they an isolated studio group that was only remotely related to the Northern Soul/dance hall scene?

Perhaps it's because they were from Scotland which is Northern Britain rather than Northern England!

1. Do I love you? Indeed I do. 2. Get ur freak out. Get ur freak out.

Order reversible. Libido unquestioned.

Does that answer your question?

The connection might now be somewhat past it's prime, but I have witnessed the charmingly awkward marriage more than once. I can see the the appeal (sweet 3 minute gems) but can only guess at the origins (dexy's etc. as above?)

By and large (and I apologise for generalisations) I'd say that indie kids love the music but deplore the actual culture of the Northern scene, from which they are somewhat excluded. The scene is somewhat tight-knit, and might appear to be not terribly welcoming of newcomers. Certainly it has it's own dress and dance codes, which are a little more rigorous than those at indie clubs (where it might be acceptable to dance with a drink in your hand, but probably not to turn up in a string vest).

I see in the indie kid's love of Northern soul similarities with the manner in which fringes of the indie world flirted with modernism. There were many attracted to the style, the records, the clothes, etc., and for a while ('89 on?) there was a definite crossover. However the cold reality of the stricter end of mod clubs (especially back then, when clothing policies were comically harsh) led to an initial attraction becoming somewhat soured. Some made the leap into the full-on mod stuff - Sea Urchins etc. - but most were turned off. Maybe in some ways the indie kids were approaching it with a certain purity of vision, unpolluted by the day-to-day drabness of how mods really were. Maybe they were in love with the dream, with the idea of what mod could be. Maybe the same with Northern, a principal (classic) over reality (a social/nostalgia scene for mostly older people.)

Still I do wish they'd learn to dance properly, and not dj entire sets from 3 greatest hits lps.

Lastly it is hard to define classic or not on a genre subject to so many definitions itself. The fact that Northern Soul is "that which Northern soul fans like" means there has been a lot of crap played and comped in it's name. Can you judge it best by it's greatest hits, or by the depths to which some have sunk in order to spin something "new"?

Sorry for rambling, I'm off to write an article about this - look for it on http://www.uppers.net.

R

whats this?

Stop trying to eat it.

Many people have mentioned Northern soul—specific dancing: what does this look like?

Ha ha I now know what it looks like, in America at least ~ unfortunately I do not know how to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v96EDvG1F9k

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

give us our records back

oh shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zfDnhRsRww

Funny to see this thread pop up; I was in England this past week and bought this compilation out of idle curiosity. Plus it was only six pounds.

Brill Northern Soul doc on the beeb last night: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03bs488

http://www.soul-source.co.uk/

"Rare and Northern soul source"

.. or is it genuine, passionate, life-affirming music which connects directly with the feet and the gut (in that order)?

marcello otm to the power of ...

there are times that a well worn northern soul compilation sounds better than anything else in a well stocked archive.

i sooooo wish i could do the dance, but i think i would end up in a&e ..

Is there a definitive Northern Soul comp? Best series?

my favourite series is the $tateside/emi talcum soul six volume set.

http://vimeo.com/5521197

classic short film.

paul kaye as the dj is brilliant.

until he came on i thought this was a genuine 70s film ..

i loved this... so well made..

exactly .. and really funny.

(and the music is excellent of course !)

the speedfreak kid made me proper chuckle and made me wonder if it was really a 70s film, then when paul kaye turned up, i realised it was impossible.

but i have to admit, i was fooled for a while.

oh, and i think bbc4 are showing the northern soul documentary, way of the crowd, sometime soon.

its brilliant.

bill brewster give his all re the scene.

as do several others.

well worth a viewing.

That short is wonderful, thank you mark e

in other news ..

found a genuine cd copy of this northern soul mixtape by andy smith for 50p earlier this week ..

http://www.mixcloud.com/DJAndySmith/dj-andy-smith-northern-soul-45s-mix-3-july-07/

just there was a download option.

its bloody ace.

ooh look closely .. there is !

and i think it still may work.

jump on it ..

download link still works.

go go gadget ..

talcum soul seconded

loved the new 'northern soul' film.
the right mix of northern grimness, the need for youthful escapsim, and fantastic music.
the scene when the lads make it to the wigan casino sent genuine shivers up my spine.
yeah, people have complained re the drugs in the film, but to be honest, it was nowhere near as central to the film as i expected.
even though the film is out on dvd already, a friend put a request in to a local indie picture house to show it, and they said yes.
despite the nerve induced concerns of my friend, the cinema was packed out, and the response was positive ..
people clapped and cheered throughout.

I dunno - looked great, great music, authentic period detail, but it's like they forgot to add a story? just one clunky plot device after another. The ending was beyond embarrassing.

yeah, i actually agree re the ending.
however, i care not.
think the film did what it set out to do : why, when, how.
i loved it.
small scale soap opera overtones to a 70s northern grim backing will always win me over (homesick blues).