Pop's Idle

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Well done Mr Cowell! Hats off to Mr Waterman! Congratulations Ms Chapman! Champers all round "Dr" Fox (can I see your GMC licence please? We do check these things in the NHS you know)! You have managed to do what quarter of a century's worth of punks failed to do - destroyed British pop music. Or, should I say more accurately, regressed it. Back to 1952. Back to Alma Cogan and Dickie Valentine like you always wanted. Truly you are collectively the Sir Ian McGregor of pop!

We cannot condemn Mr Young or Mr Gates or Mr Dinesh or any of the other galley slaves whom you co-opted. But you have condemned them. I mean, "Unchained Melody"! Was that the best you could do? What next? "Come Into The Garden Maude"? "Champagne Charlie Is Me Name"??? What have you done to these people?

And the fucking twats who kept aforementioned Unchained Melody at #1 for four weeks. Oh, come on but admit it, they are twats - all those 60-year-old mothers: "ooh he's sweet, very well presented, he's got a stutter you know, send back them asylum seekers."

And the Pop Idol Big Band album - officially #1 in the compilation charts, but in actual fact the overall #1 seller for the last three weeks. Were they forced at gunpoint to make this record? Certainly Mr Gates sludging his way through "Mack the Knife" as though he were being stabbed while doing so gives this impression. Not just a karaoke album - but a karaoke album COVER of a karaoke album ("Swing When You're Winning" - so much do the boys in Hollywood love it that they haven't even given it a US release). Cheap. Hallmark. Not camp. Not ironic. £15 you know. You could buy the "Don't Stand Me Down" director's cut for that. Or the Langley Schools Music Project if you're interested in young people redefining songs. Or the upcoming Derek Bailey ballads album.

But, you know, they've gotten away with it and America laughs at us. Who would even want this sort of charity shop piffle to exist in the US? We have no industry - have nuclearised it down so low that the tarnished kernel is all that's left.

And everyone else is shut out. Whether you're Mike Skinner or Tjinder Singh, you're marginalised, accounted for. You wanna have a hit - why we'll just form a squad, like S Club Juniors, which is one American idea which we've imported (the original template being the boy band Menudo, whose ranks were regularly rejuvenated every 2-3 years or so, and from whom Ricky Martin, amongst others, emerged). We're in control. Yeah OK so was Col Parker, Epstein, McLaren et al; but, you know, there was something going on there, emotionally and aesthetically. Not joy at bayonet point.

OK, we can lay the blame at Britpop - like France the weekend before last, the group votes got split, the groups got lazy and indulgent, and the Spice Girls just walked in through the middle and cleaned up as no one else who should have been doing so was actually willing to do so (and let's be fair, kids - apart from "Wannabe" and that vaguely Tricky-esque last track but one on the first album, what decent songs did the SGs actually come up with?).

So can bootlegs save us, or just spent careers? Why am I not jumping up and down at the Sugababes being #1 this week? Well, for a start, it doesn't hold a match to the Girls on Top original - still available for five of your English pounds from any branch of Rough Trade, or indeed now on CD - "The Best Bootlegs In The World Ever" - the Sugababes' vocals being frankly not up to the job; far too weedy, far too "oh we know what we're doing here alright." And the crucial apex of the "original" - the double explosive blast which bisects the two halves of the second verse - does not appear on the track, as does (not) the white noise fadeout.

And don't talk to me about One Giant Fucking Leap! (UNKLE for Cold Feet fans)

OK, so what's the answer? Ensconce oneself deeper in our own "panic rooms"/bunkers and dig deeper into the underground, like what we like and stop trying to impose a social picture on top of it, or go into the blinding white with guns aloft and try and change some of this?

(PS: please note new Hotmail address)

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

**or go into the blinding white with guns aloft and try and change some of this**

I'm up for it if you are. Thing is though, I think I remember doing something similar half a lifetime ago. I'm not sure I made it. Maybe I never came back.

Dr. C, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, Dr C, I was going to use "A Nation Mourns" as a byline for this thread but thought that might be a wee bit too obvious. Still, never too late to man the barricades, eh?

More details, please, about your activities half a lifetime ago, if printable!

Marcello Carlin, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Was this inspired by todays Guardian, or is it just an eerie coincidence?

Robin, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

More than half a lifetime ago, actually. 1976 to be precise. No-one cares about a sad old bugger's reminiscences - over a beer maybe.

There is a big issue here about whether it matters how crap mainstream culture is vs the selfish view that there's plenty of raw material out there, more than most of us have the time or energy to discover, with which to create an alternative 'world'. I have never fully resolved this. I thought around about the middle of 1982 that the mainstream *might* be getting good. It didn't really.

Dr. C, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ironic footnote: the hit single from butch cassidy and the sundance kid was "raindrops keep falling on my head"

can we not demand that mp3 downloads count towards the charts?

mark s, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Marcello I agree with a lot of what you say although I enjoyed the Pop Idol series. I think people like Simon Cowell have always been there. They have always wanted tightly-reined, compliant artists but the sub-cultural aspect to pop music in earlier times meant that they were somewhat at a loss to understand the product they were selling. Because they were younger and 'on the scene' (be it Mod, Punk, Hippy whatever) the artists were able to retain a lot of control of the content of what they were doing (while being absolutely fleeced on the financial side). That has all shifted now. Today's pop isn't, for the most part, related to any youth sub-culture and doesn't require any arcane cultural knowledge, so the industry can run the artists the way they've always wanted to.

David, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Gd. to see you back Marcello.

Dr. C. - if it's in the charts isn't it always 'mainstream' (to some extent)?

I'm sure the whole Pop Stars thing is just a temporary phenom - there's always been crap tv-led singles in the charts - where are Hear'say these days? At least this kind of old pony helps to give the UK charts their own distinctive identity/flavour - can't see Will or Gareth (or Robbie) scoring in the US with cabaret cover pap - and I guess it's gd to always have a pop enemy...

Andrew L, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The Guardian piece is here

Its a good article I think - I blow hot and cold about Perdis's writing but I rated this article. Local stirrings of creativity are always interesting to read about, I wish it was covered more often - (cf 1981 NME 'sound of young scotland edition' with Claire and Edwin on the cover).

The only problem I had is with the conclusion, it just covered far to much detail to tie up neatly at the end: the route from there to predicting mass market acceptance is long and has little to do with the quality of the product.

ps Keith, if you read this, what did you think of the Optimo section?

Alexander Blair, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't want to claim any kind of wisdom because I'm 42, but this is so very familiar. There has always been lots of rubbish in the charts. There have been loads of manufactured bands where the people behind the scenes were the ones in charge - this is why there are classic Crystals records where the Crystals are not involved at all. The Monkees were not one bit more authentic than Hear'Say. Quality, sales, authenticity are all separate concepts with no necessary connection, orthogonal concepts that some people are linking in untrue ways.

I know this isn't Marcello's point, but most of this recent fuss seems to come from the lack of UK records in the US chart. Why exactly is that some sort of indicator of quality? I can see why the industry would worry about this on an economic level, obv, but not why we should care. For the record, from the point of view of one middle-aged man, there's more exciting music around now than ever before, and a greater variety, and I'm extremely happy with the music scene.

Martin Skidmore, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

**I know this isn't Marcello's point, but most of this recent fuss seems to come from the lack of UK records in the US chart. Why exactly is that some sort of indicator of quality**

Yes, lots of people are going on about this at the moment. You're right, it's no indicator that *quality* is low here.

I have just watched TOTP. How is it that guitar bands are creeping back again. Haven - possibly worse than Starsailor, if that's at all possible. There was some shit I'd never heard of called Spitoon or something with a girl singer at number 14. Who buys that? I quite enjoyed Idlewild - pleasingly dour in a good way - but I don't care if I don't hear it again. However, I'll be off down to Woolworths tomorrow morning to buy The Sugababes - what a fantastic record. Tom is OTM here. Marcello - yes the vox seemed weedy tho' I rather liked the way that they were being buffeted by Numans thundering synths. I'd like to hear the Girls on Top orig too.

Dr. C, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

>>> "what a fantastic record"

Doc - every time I think you and I might have something in common, you go all bonkers on me.

the pinefox, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm just bemused at the non-crispness of the arrangement, which I do love. I'm desperately trying to guess whether or not it would work on radio over here (keeping in mind that "Are Friends Electric" was never a hit in the States, meaning there's not even the tenuous link to past chart history to draw on...it would be fresh overall, if you like).

Ned Raggett, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

There was some shit I'd never heard of called Spitoon or something with a girl singer at number 14. Who buys that?

Kosheen. It was rather good I thought. I might buy it.

David, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

biggest selling uk single in 1967 (summer of wuv, youth revolution blah blah) = ken dodd's "tears"

mark s, Friday, 3 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

**Doc - every time I think you and I might have something in common, you go all bonkers on me**

Hey PF! Good to hear from you. Start some threads or something - you're needed round here! Or get in the charts!

Dr. C, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dr.C - despite the fact that he seems to ignore anything I ever say to him sob sob! - is oh so right once more. Kosheen were like an ever more boring/bland Texas, if such a thing is possible/desirable.

After also seeing S Club Juniors on TOTP I've now changed my mind and want to take up my place on the barricades right away!

Andrew L, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Kosheen were like an ever more boring/bland Texas

Completely untrue. I hate Texas as much as the next man. There was something very pleasing about the Kosheen chorus progression and a subtle organic/electronic mix going on (no I don't mean an acoustic gtr plus a beat...I mean something more subtle than that...the acoustic sounded processed in some way, I'd have to listen to it again).

David, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But, you know, they've gotten away with it and America laughs at us

We do? I haven't got a clue what this thread is even about!

Kris, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

biggest selling uk single in 1967 (summer of wuv, youth revolution blah blah) = ken dodd's "tears"

I love facts like this (or have you just made it up?).

And the Grammy for Best Contemporary (Rock and Roll) Recording of 1966 goes to......

Winchester Cathedral by the New Vaudeville Band (Fontana).

And why didn't Strawberry Fields Forever / Penny Lane reach No.1 in the UK? Because Englebert Humperdinck's Release Me was there instead.

Hurrah for the historical revisionism.

N., Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Mark S is wrong about Ken Dodd's Tears as it was number 1 the day I was born, (and surely there's no more apppropriate song for that happy day.

Billy Dods, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

sorry it was 1965, not 1967: ie year of dylan/beatles/stones sweeping america, but not really quite counterculture yet (or rock haha)

this will teach me to quote simon frith from memory

mark s, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Without the mainstream, what would be the alternative? What would angry youths kick back against?

What would be exciting about all music on a plate? Go look for the good stuff.

You can find inspirational music if you look for it, but please don't blame the mainstream. The mainstream is the reason we have exciting and challenging bands/artists - just don't expect a consensus of opinion and a pat on the back for being right.

Bon Jovi's Living on a prayer is mainstream as hell, but years out of the limelight make it fantastic rock'n'roll record. I'd hate to predict what the equivalent will be, but lets not worry about it

Sonicred, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

years out of the limelight make it fantastic rock'n'roll record

For *you,* maybe. I'm still waiting for that steel horse to crush Mr. Bon Jovi's skull.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

**Dr.C - despite the fact that he seems to ignore anything I ever say to him sob sob!**

Uh? Sorry Andrew. I didn't realise I'd snubbed you. It may be a consequence of the way I *participate* in ILX - usually in a hurry, and I forget which threads I'm involved in, and so forget to *answer* as it were. Come to the next FAP, and I'll buy you a beer. (Hopefully next FAP soon, but NOT before 20th as no money till then. Damn recd buying.

Dr. C, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dr. C you are a true gent and I am a silly old silly.

Andrew L, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)


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