I bet we can find 100 bands that are not innovative, pioneering, or supremely talented, but owe their success to the fact they're "astute"

Coldplay.

Oasis.

Keane.

Status Quo.

God this could go on forever, surely? It depends how you define 'supremely talented'?

This thread probably applies a very large number of successful bands.

Soulja Boy

Like a LOT.

P Diddy

No reasons given - pls revisit and say why as I suggested!

1. Scouting for Girls.

I am thinking particularly of their song "Elvis Ain't Dead", as it is the one I have heard all the way through repeatedly. It became obvious to me that they'd hit on the way of connecting with the populace by including certain memes.

Mention Elvis in a song - almost guarantees a hit.

Mention a bust up with a former partner - ditto.

The sense of misplaced optimism - ditto again.

Adopting a singing style not dissimilar from Stereophonics (ok this may have been accidental) - reminds lots of ppl of lots of bands they know and like, so they are attracted to the song on a/c of its cosy familiarity.

There are lots of unsigned no-mark, no hope bands that have more talent in their little fingers than Scouting for Girls have, yet Scouting for Girls were astute enough to realise certain things and they propelled them to stardom, while the old and wise (well, many of them) sit and shake their heads in disbelief.

Did Scouting for Girls realise these things on a conscious level, or subconsciously?

I think they realised. Anyway, the band I was thinking of, that'd definitely be mentioned quickly, was Oasis.

I'm still intrigued by Scik's idea that Morning Glory's high volume level helped push it over the top.

I hear this in a lot of Nickelback songs. They'll throw in a line about some sort of memory they have that probably every middle american has about getting into some trouble as a kid. Here's a part from Photograph

And this is where I went to school
Most of the time had better things to do
Criminal record says I broke in twice
I must have done it half a dozen times

He broke INTO school -- who the hell does that? It's trouble without crossing a line. He's not talking about getting high or killing a dude, just the sort of harmless stuff John Q. Pick up a CD at the Grocery Store Maybe might vaguely connect to. That on top of the ROCK but not too hard music with the sort of dirty voice that cancels out some of the femininity of his sad sack nostalgic lyrics is what makes this song so popular for a few weeks or until they come up with another song in the exact same template.

Herman's Hermits.

Hugely popular in the states, due to their being marketed as a "nice" Beatles. Over a surprisingly long time period.

These sorts of bands end up leaving almost no trace whatsoever, a good 10 years after their last hit.

Scissor Sisters. Limp Bizkit.

Big Black. Sound like Wire being cranky. Due to massive drug intake, were barely able to grasp instruments in weak, anemic fingers. Gained a measure of notoriety due to clever deployment of catchphrases & graphic design, knowing the right people.

Duran Duran. They were one of the first bands to really grasp the power of music videos.

Big Star. Stole everything from Beatles. Wore wide pants. Would be forgotten were it not for well-timed suicide, being drunk while making break-up record.

Joy Division. Same as Big Star, but with skinny pants.

Big Star. Stole everything from Beatles. Wore wide pants. Would be forgotten were it not for well-timed suicide, being drunk while making break-up record.

...except they weren't the least bit successful or popular (during their original incarnation, at least).

Talking Heads. Did not understand punk rock. Evolved into electric blackface. Popular only due to superficial Devo resemblance.

Vampire Weekend. See note, re: Talking Heads, above. Substitute Gossip Girl for Devo.

Led Zeppelin. Stole everything from blind guy. Bulbous crotches prominently featured. Appeal to people who think musicianship and talent are interchangeable. Famous primarily for putting fish in girl.

CONTROVERSIAL OPINIONS here.

The Beatles. Stole everything from Franz Liszt. Probably gay. Appeal to people who confuse originality with creativity. Made a fortune exploiting impressionable young women.

etc

But the Beatles invented harmony and cleverness!

Yes.

Stole the distinctive part of their act from Keith Emerson and The Nice. Had only a tenuous grasp of the rock music they were supposed to be playing, by their own admission being more interested in Simon and Garfunkel. Did more for Stravinsky than for rock and roll. Were able to create a nice little cottage side-industry by selling freaky posters with flying mountains and their name on to people who took the drugs they themselves disdained.

This is fun!

I thought Yes took themselves really seriously and thought they were the greatest band of all time?

No, you're thinking of Vampire Weekend. Yes were more about the good times.

oic

"...people who took the drugs they themselves disdained"

Trust me, they didn't all abstain.

Manic Street Preachers.

Gave good copy to music journalists. Wrote manifestos. Did crazy things in interviews. Among the first rock musicians to collaborate with porn stars. Paid attention to graphic design. Prettiest band member vanished. I couldn't hum one of their tunes for Jesus.

http://www.2000ad.org/zenith/iv/punk.jpg

AMM just ripped off the Who.

Beethoven. The guy was deaf, yet somehow he "composes" music. Nice gimmick, but I don't see any real talent there.

WESTLIFE.

(now back to tha joeks)

stereolab

A lot of the acts in this thread are neither innovative nor pioneering, but still supremely talented anyway.

The correct is of course Elvis Presley. He got popular because he was white.

...

just walk away

Well, you cannot deny it. He did the exact same thing that Chuck Berry and Little Richard did. Except they made better music, wrote their own songs and all, and he didn't. Yet, Elvis got more popular because the majority of white audiences weren't ready to buy music by black acts in 1956. Bill Haley is an even better example.

I'm not sure I understand this concept, Geir. Could you please explain it a great deal more?

snow patrol

anything involving doug albarn

I mean, I guess an argument could be made for Phillips' astuteness, insofar as he recognized a novel marketing angle (handsome hillbilly dude sings race records) - though many would argue that this narrative was something Sam sort of perpetuated after the fact.

Not to take anything away from Elvis, but I don't see how his being white constitutes astuteness.

I guess an argument could be made for Phillips' astuteness

wau at this thread

radiohead duh

The KLF.

Lords of Astuteness. Knowing the bare minimum of cultural references,then calling it a day and leaving the rest to art.

Surely this is not a bad thing?

Nerve Pylon OTM.

stereolab own this thread.

word

Defend the Indefensible: Astution

I guess an argument could be made for Phillips' astuteness

wau at this thread

???
w/r/t Elvis' early success, yeah. By most accounts EP went to Sun to make a record for his Mom. Even so, I don't want to paint E as merely a pawn (there are books and TV movies for that), and I certainly don't want to belittle his talent.

Oh yeah, Elvis was totally a fluke for Phillips. The rest of his recording history is pretty much a dud.

not sure I'm following, or maybe my sarcasm detector is on the fritz

Elvis was a supremely talented dude, which imo makes him ineligible for inclusion on this thread.

As for Phillips, I wasn't suggesting he just got lucky with Elvis. He was definitely a wily motherfucker who had very un-dud recording history... I just think he had a penchant for self-aggrandizement (this assessment comes from seeing him give a 2+ hour lecture and accounts from folks - who very well might jealous, fuck if I know - who knew him personally/ professionally).

I think its pretty much accepted that Elvis made "rock and roll" safe for the white audience but I still think he brought a lot of talent to the table as well.

Unlike my nomination... Bush.

Elvis was a supremely talented dude

He had an above average singing voice and a somewhat original stage act. Other than that, it was just looks, looks, looks. And the right people behind him.

A lot of the jokes in this thread are neither innovative nor pioneering, but still supremely talented anyway.

Well, you cannot deny it. He did the exact same thing that Chuck Berry and Little Richard did. Except they made better music, wrote their own songs and all, and he didn't. Yet, Elvis got more popular because the majority of white audiences weren't ready to buy music by black acts in 1956. Bill Haley is an even better example.

-- Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 20 February 2008 22:20 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

OK, all but the last sentence I agree. Bill Haley is not a better example, but he is an example.

However:

He had an above average singing voice and a somewhat original stage act. Other than that, it was just looks, looks, looks. And the right people behind him.

-- Geir Hongro, Thursday, 21 February 2008 00:34 (8 hours ago) Bookmark Link

.. is praising with faint damnation. Above average voice? Somewhat original stage act? Otherwise?

Pssh.

Green Day - did not invent punk rock

There were certainly a slew of early 90's bands that fit this label ... Sponge, Silverchair, Stone Temple Pilots, etc. If one is desperately seeking big game throw Smashing Pumpkins or Pearl Jam on the fire.

Late 80's/Early 90's hair metal is almost exclusively populated by bands that fit this description.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c133/OysteinietsyO/lolcat4265129.jpg

how many truly successful contemporary bands are any of the above

It's not that it's a bad question, it's that it invites such lazy answers.

Wait, I guess that means it is a bad question. Never mind.

i'm a punk first and a superhuman second...

xp i don't think everyone here knows what astute means, or at least in the sense that you're talking about

it's far too vague, you see

do you mean they are perceived by others as being "astute"? like in a marketing sense i.e. the right sound for the right time??