when, exactly, did belle & sebastian start sucking?

Great thread

Tigermilk.

i knew that answer was coming.

What did they do before Tigermilk? They must have rehearsed, right?

i wouldn't bank on it.

legal man is atrocious

legal man ftw

Probably the first time they hit the "record" button.

day one, yeah.

where's "never?"

Recording of Stuart Murdoch singing in the bath aged four.

archaeologists in Tanzania have found evidence of belle & sebastian sucking possibly more than a million years ago.

Bahahahahahahahaha

Can someone Photoshop a picture of a baby dinosaur on wheels?

http://www.anvari.org/db/cols/Iranian_TV_Cartoons/Belle_Sebastian.jpg

A winner is me.

AH FUCK NO NO NO

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5984/belle28ql.jpg

Not a simple "when" question. We really need a graph for this question.

Definitely Not Sucking: Tigermilk through "Legal Man"
Sucking: Fold Your Hands... through Storytelling
Not Sucking: "Jonathan David" through "Books"
Not So Much Sucking As Inessential: Sinister live
Sucking: The Life Pursuit to present (including "The Eighth Station of The Kebab House")

Have yet to suck

They started losing me at Arab Strap, completely lost me by Fold Your Hands. But I haven't listened to any Belle & Sebastian in a few years.

I'm with mike a. on this -- "Dear Catastrophe Waitress" a triumphant return to form, and I expect more peaks in the future.

I like "The life pursuit", "Funny little frog" and all!

The Boy With The Arab Strap is where I got off the magic bus. Although tbh 3...6...9... etc isn't up to much either.

What Rabies said goes for me too. Last B&S track I really loved was Pastie de la Bourgeoisie off 3... 6... 9 Seconds of Light; didn't like Boy With The Arab Strap enough to buy it but thought it sounded better than I'd originally thought when I heard it at someone else's place a while later, Modern Rock Song is not for me, Legal Man was fun at the time but I would dread to listen to it now.

Really I just liked Tigermilk and the three EPs, and I don't even know if I'd like those now, it's been so long.

matt dc and dan perry with the zings

Just realized how great a song "Ease your feet in the sea" is.

Back on topic, I vote for FYHCYWLAP (WTF) because outside of 2 or 3 songs that record was crap. "Beyond the Sunrise" is still the worst song I have ever heard.

Suddenly when Fold Your Hands came out I realized I didn't care enough to buy it. I never went back, and ended up selling what I had.

why isn't "from birth" an option?

good zinging, pipecock.

Legal Man. They'd put out undewhelming material before, but "Legal Man" was a heartbreaker. The third song on the single, the one whose name I refuse to type? Even that can't even save it. This is where I jumped ship, though I wouldn't say they've been worthless since.

Bums me out that so many folks whose taste I respect (Alex, GOTT PUNCH, Matt) hate B&S with such a passion.

They started to suck with Fishyclap even if there are some wonders on that album. The presence of The Clunker was beyond a missed beat or a blip in good taste.

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3368103.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=5C1929E78F851DD2DE41ACB27D8B39C7A55A1E4F32AD3138

I stopped listening after Fold Your Hands... I have never gone back, altho I'm sure Stuart's written a few more decent songs. I'm kinda unforgiving when a band makes a bad album. I rarely go back and give a second chance, which is probably not wise/fair...

lol is there option for when first creature crawled out of sea and formed hands and legs so it could become land creature

It may have dived straight back in and not bothered if it had somehow foreseen the suckiness of Belle and Sebastian.

I like Legal Man - it's fun! They started to lose the magic on FYHC, as Stuart and Isobel's relationship crumbled and the band lost focus, but they regained it to an extent with some strong singles like Jonathan David and Waking Up To Us. I think Dear Catastrophe is a good shiny pop album. Doesn't have the magic and mystery of the first two albums, but it's the sound of a band acknowledging that and going for the pop jugular. Life Pursuit was pretty bad though - they finally descended into full on pastiche. Blues Are Still Blue blatantly rips off Gilbert O'Sullivan, which is nowhere as cute as it's supposed to be, just bad. Horrible hot-mastered production from Tony Hoffer too.

Stuart Lee Murdoch, born August 25, 1968

BINGO!

"Lazy Line Painter Jane" is the only record of theirs I've really got into.

"Legal Man"

hey guys -- how about... some time during the Big Bang!11!!1

xpost to myself,
... although "The Loneliness Of A Middle Distance Runner" and maybe two tracks on FYHC still have the magic, I didn't hear I think I cared about after that. And "Legal Man" was the first things I heard from them where I was like, "uhhhhh, where did it all go?"

lol nostradamus warned us of b&s long ago

blah blah spot of impurity that existed in the mind the universe before it decided to create itself by creating god, etc

legal man hate is baffling. it was probably the most interesting thing they did since electronic renaissance. briefly got me back on the bus..

lol is there option for when first creature crawled out of sea and formed hands and legs so it could become land creature

-- omar little, Friday, February 22, 2008 10:57 AM

It may have dived straight back in and not bothered if it had somehow foreseen the suckiness of Belle and Sebastian.

-- chap, Friday, February 22, 2008 10:59 AM

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Lots of Arab Strap sucks, but let's be fair, two perfect records and then an average one is good going. Since then they've been pretty much 50/50. The Life Pursuit is shittily produced, far too beefy sounding, but has some great songs on it. They're a different band than they were, capable of wonderful songwriting but also of 'The Blues Are Still Blue'.

'Legal Man' is great pop fun ya mimsies.

Yeah Legal Man is when they briefly STOPPED sucking!

The whole point of the EPs was to fuck around and be less precious than on the albums wasn't it? All that mid-period EP action (save 'Modern Rock Song' which I used to hate and now merely think is average) is pretty great, despite being mostly pastiche.

'Your Cover's Blown' wasn't a huge indicator to what was on 'The Life Pursuit' really, I was well excited about what was to come after hearing that.

I think I still have a copy of Modern Rock Song despite me hating it when I bought it, I should probably do something about that.

'Legal Man' is great pop fun ya mimsies.

Yeah Legal Man is when they briefly STOPPED sucking!

You people.

(No answer given thus far is backdated enough.)

Liked nearly everything through Boy With The Arab Strap. Checked again today to see if in fact they have sucked from before time began. Nah, still good through BWTAS.

boy w/ arab strap was the end of my B&S attention. Tigermilk is excellent imfo.

The Life Pursuit was the best album of 2006, imo. absolutely no filler with almost every song good enough to be a single. if you lost interest you lost out!

same here. except i could do without mornington crescent.

almost every song, lol.

also Dear Catastrophe Waitress was really fun as well.

I'll see you there and raise you one Fold Your Hands...one day that album will get its due.

but perhaps i'm missing the point of this poll.

missing the point as well but wanted to give some love to the last album.

Answer to thread: everything after Boy With the Arab Strap (with the exception of some of the EP material, get some of the chronology mixed up because i didn't hear most of that until the comp). Fuck all y'all haters.

i can't vote in this because i concur with whoever's "it needs to be a graph" suggestion.

You missed an option, as they have never started sucking. I am no big fan either, but I have not understanding for the hatred.

Loved "Legal Man" and definitely don't understand the hatred.

Mostly agree with the above criticisms of The Life Pursuit. But B&S have reached that vaunted position where I'll always listen to their new music regardless of my opinion toward the last one. Had I jumped ship after Storytelling, for instance, I would've missed out on DCW, which is my favorite next to Sinister.

Nice to see the other shoe drop. Agree with the defenders of Dear Catastrophe Waitress and The Life Pursuit, but only to a degree. I've spent more time with those records than I care to recount (GF remains a big fan), and while they're objectively fine records - smart, catchy, surprising and a lot of fun - they don't do much for me.

B&S have always traded in pastiche, I suppose, but lately it's come to seem unbearably forced. The early records had a hermetic cohesiveness that's disappeared entirely. I miss the sense of being let in on a secret inner world. And while it's easy to write off those angst-ridden early records as juvenalia, they had a deep, weary honesty that helped keep Stuart's whimsy from becoming gag-inducing treacle.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

also Dear Catastrophe Waitress was really fun as well.

Oh, that's one of the best albums ever made. Trevor Horn must be some kind of goddamn genius.

i thought fold your hands was really weak when it came out, hated it in fact; but catastrophe waitress was soooo good, I thought they were revitalized. but life pursuit is terrible, so it gets the nod

not necessarily just because of the last post but cripes the more i read this board the less i understand why people like and dislike stuff

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

if you're feeling sinister 0

haha very telling

even split between haters and sinister-loving crybabies

I too am surprised by all the Legal Man hate. That was a fun single. I didn't care much for it at first but it quickly grew on me.

I liked it from the off.

Cassaco Marron

What is this, exactly?

it was on their late night tales. so so.

ah. Just found this:

Casaco Marron is a limited-edition 7-inch single by the Scottish indie band Belle and Sebastian. 1000 copies were pressed and released by Azuli Records in 2006, one week before the release of Azuli's Late Night Tales: Belle & Sebastian compilation, on which both of the single's tracks were also included. The A-side is Belle & Sebastian's cover of a song by Evinha, of the Brazilian group Trio Esperança. The B-side is a spoken-word piece by David Shrigley called "When I Was a Little Girl," making the release technically a split single, although it was not promoted as such.

Oh well, props for picking something obscure to try.

It was obviously after their 3rd LP that they started sucking. Actually it was more like they started having hit or miss tracks which was still fine with me because there was still some hits.

I stopped listening after Fold Your Hands... I have never gone back, altho I'm sure Stuart's written a few more decent songs. I'm kinda unforgiving when a band makes a bad album. I rarely go back and give a second chance, which is probably not wise/fair...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, February 22, 2008 11:45 AM (3 years ago)

Thread idea: bands that make miraculous comebacks (a streak of two or more exceptionally good albums) after three or more sucky albums

'The Life Pursuit' is the only album by this band that I like tbh

Are B&S a singles band?

Tigermilk and If You're Feeling Sinister are essential IMO...You only need those two and Push Barman really.

Are B&S a singles band?

― gord downer (Ówen P.), Monday, 9 January 2012 00:22 (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ha, they didn't release singles when they were good! i'm pedantically distinguishing between their standalone eps & the things we know as singles, but i think the first like lp-featurette single they released was off some shitty late record.

Tigermilk and If You're Feeling Sinister are essential IMO...You only need those two and Push Barman really.

No, what I meant was; well, long answer, I guess:
I never understood why this band was so vilified by the early 00s British press-- or here-- and I guess I just assumed it was teeth-grinding remembrance of art student housemates with knit bunny hats and Jean Seberg haircuts who totally listened to "Arab Strap" 24/7. And now, looking back on the track listing of that Lazy Line boxset, which was my first introduction to the band and the only thing of theirs to which I can confess intimacy, I realize that yes there are a tonne of songs that are worthy of the fire; but there are also so many untouchable classics, "The state I am in", "I know where the summer goes", "Dog on wheels", "Lazy line painter Jane", and so on. The yea or nay evaluation of this band on an album-by-album basis just had me wondering if maybe this was a band that deserved S/D of their individual songs.

"when"

One of those bands by virtue of whose influences should have registered in my affections much more than I did, but I haven't been able to swallow more than a half dozen songs.

*much more than THEY did

Between The Boy With The Arab Strap and Fold Your Hands you should be able to find 10 songs for a good "singles" mix so I don't think they started sucking in that era. There's plenty of fans still for Dear Catastrophe Waitress but I wouldn't use any more than 3 tracks from that one. Between The Life Pursuit and Write About Love there might be one good song for that mix.

yes it's a "when" question but a "choose sides" conversation

also no disrespect to knits or art students or Jean Seberg I was just describing my own B&S-loving housemate I had in my late teens and I remember her with fondness

that tidbit sounds like the start to a B&S song

fuuuck

The yea or nay evaluation of this band on an album-by-album basis just had me wondering if maybe this was a band that deserved S/D of their individual songs.

ha no sure i get you. i almost think it's an overpowering aesthetic thing, though, to some degree, that the songs are so bound up with the literal & cultural packaging they came in. & wrt their albums i think they seem as intently fully formed, conceived as LPs, as any records that were being made back then - i don't know entirely how that figures here but perhaps the particular setup they had, with those of-a-template records & then neatly delineated eps, makes it harder for people to divorce the songs from their original shells.

I stopped listening after Fold Your Hands... I have never gone back, altho I'm sure Stuart's written a few more decent songs. I'm kinda unforgiving when a band makes a bad album. I rarely go back and give a second chance, which is probably not wise/fair...
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, February 22, 2008 11:45 AM (3 years ago)

Me too tho I did go see them last winter (admittedly mostly to see dean and Britta doing galaxie songs as the opening act) and they put on a really great show. I even got into the newer stuff I didn't know.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0uVX-Z0vwO4/TuG5QwCmMUI/AAAAAAAAARc/0VcSSFp_ztY/s320/dean+britta.jpg

Murdoch is such a pimp that I'm surprised he hasn't collaborated with Wayne or Kayne ye.

ye

fuck -- yet

http://handsandarms.com/1952-2602-large/los-soberanos-maraton-ye-ye.jpg

yeah they DEFINITELY got better again after Fold Your Hands.. much of The Life Pursuit is excellent, some of Dear Catastrophe is the best stuff they ever did.

also no disrespect to knits or art students or Jean Seberg I was just describing my own B&S-loving housemate I had in my late teens and I remember her with fondness

― gord downer (Ówen P.), Sunday, January 8, 2012 9:34 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

that tidbit sounds like the start to a B&S song

― Different folk for different folks (CaptainLorax), Sunday, January 8, 2012 9:36 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fuuuck

― gord downer (Ówen P.),

loooool at this

i love belle and sebastian up to fold your hands. i couldn't really get into much of that (other than the aforementioned 3-4 songs on dear catastrophe waitress). since i wasn't hanging out with art students in the late-90s (i was too busy being section leader of the battery in marching band /nerdzzzzzz) i don't have any resentment for some annoying clique that also loved them a decade ago