New York Dolls vs. Venom

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Comically inept and mentally challenged - but with a look and a hook

― dave q, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Pretty even on the short sharp pop ("Personality Crisis", "Angel Dust"), but Venom wins in the long-form race - "1000 Days in Sodom"'s thud-disco beats "Stranded in the Jungle"(which goes on for fucking EVER and is my least favorite song by anybody of all time) and "Frankenstein" (which just SEEMS to go on forever)

― dave q, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dolls. Venom's singer is incredibly annoying.

― John Darnielle, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dolls all the way. As a man whose first records were (45) Ride A White Swan and (33) Slade Alive, and who had only gone to a couple of gigs before going to dozens of punk ones, how can I not love the bridge between them. And they were camp, which I always like, and they worked with the glorious Shadow Moreton. And they were the main subject of my one conversation with John Cooper-Clarke.

I have barely registered the existence of Venom.

― Martin Skidmore, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Stranded in the Jungle"(which goes on for fucking EVER and is my least favorite song by anybody of all time)

I was just listening to that album this morning. "Stranded in the Jungle" is the best cover evah, on the best album evah.

― Vic Funk, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Venom. Dolls' singer is incredibly annoying.

― your null fame, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Vic Funk, no way is "Too Much Too Soon" anywhere near as good as the first album. Put up yer dukes, you.

― John Darnielle, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

venom - who are ny dolls?

― a-33, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Funny, I was just about to say...Who the Fucks Venom! Maybe this is a bit one-sided but the Dolls are hard to beat. Just have a listen to the albums "A Hard Nights Day" or better still the live 'I Am A Human Being".

― Harry H, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

There should be a codicil to this thread in which the influence of the New York Dolls on the entirety of Punk Rock, Heavy Metal and "Alternative" is completely discounted and they are judged solely on their music. By too many bands' admissions (from the Clash to Motley Crue to Aerosmith to the Sex Pistols to Kiss to the Smiths to the Dead Boys to Twisted Sister to Culture Club), the New York Dolls had a positively *SEISMIC* impact on the course of rock'n'roll. That said, it's hard to judge them without factoring in how many droves of bands (let alone whole sub-genres) they influenced. Despite the fact that they managed to earn themselves a goodly amount of real estate in the ground war for Pop Cultural significance, for the purposes of this thread, they should be judged by their paltry studio output alone (just one album more than the Pistols).

That said, Venom had....what? Nineteen, twenty albums? And as great as they were (I still count AT WAR WITH SATAN as one of my favorite albums of all time), precious few people have heard of them outside of the insular Heavy Metal community. Were they influential? Certainly, but not nearly as much as the Dolls. Were they any good? Certainly, but not nearly as populist as the Dolls. If you weren't pre-disposed to extreme heavy metal before hand, Venom offer you nothing, whereas the Dolls took basic rock'n'roll and gave it a potent injection of the bizarre that was both off-putting and exciting for the unintiated. Venom, meanwhile, simply preach to the converted.

The Dolls may not have been King Crimson, but I bet they could manage something other than Venom's strict diet of none-more-black dirge metal. With all due respect to Venom, I still say the Dolls win this battle.

― Alex in NYC, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

venom was the band all the punks in my high school spray painted on the back of their leather jackets so they must have been amazing. never heard a note though. has anyone from venom done 'hot!hot! hot!'?

― keith, Saturday, 4 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sonic Youth's version of 'Personality Crisis' is approx. 1 million times better than the original - so Venom.

― Andrew L, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dolls - Chicks that're into the Dolls are a lot more fun than chicks that're into Venom.

― J Blount, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Morrissey to thread!

― J Blount, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I've never heard a note of Venom either. Maybe they're brilliant. The Dolls are one of my all-time favorite bands, though. Search: David Johansen's butt-sticking-out pose on the cover of Too Much Too Soon. Oh yeah, Search: Johnny Thunders' hair. Fuck it, Search: Every goddam thing about them.

― Sean, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i like the way that on thread after thread alex in nyc is subtly backing up my position on the pernicious and silly term "influence"

― mark s, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Alt. TS: Morrisey vs. Varg Vikernes

― dave q, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Just because "influence" doesn't play a major role in the logic-free bizarro-world that is your head, Mark S., that doesn't render the term inapplicable.

― Alex in NYC, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The Bizarro world IIRC was founded upon the most rigorous and uncompromising system ever though! Everything had to be the EXACT OPPOSITE of this world!

― dave q, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yes i can't compete with that degree of rigor: anyway alex i was saying HURRAH you agree with me (because in this instance you do) (cf your rant on WALK THIS WAY)

― mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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