Morrissey - Viva Hate POLL

Bengali in Platforms

HI DAN

This album reminds me of the pretty girl called Darla who sat in front of me in Practical Law class in high school. She was smart, too. Sigh.

Alsatian Cousin

"Everyday is Like Sunday" is my real vote

but at age 16 it was LNMS

"Everyday Is Like Sunday" obv.

The only acceptable choices are "Alsatian Cousin", "Little Man, What Now?", "Late Night, Maudlin Street" and "Suedehead".

Suedehead ftw.

"Alsatian Cousin" is still my favorite Morrissey song, period, but on this album my second would be "I Don't Mind If You Forget Me". I'm passing over "Suedehead" and "Everyday Is Like Sunday" because I got Bona Drag first and think of those as belonging there.

"The Ordinary Boys"

BREAK UP THE FAMILY!
I want to see all my friends tonight...

Wasn't Vini Reilly all bummed out about having to embellish upon what he saw as being overly simple or boring chord progressions on this record?

Yeah, he and Stephen Street have conflicting accounts of who wrote what.

I don't understand the connections that have been made between "Maudlin Street" and Ricki Lee Jones' "The Last Chance Texaco". They're nothing alike, as far as I can tell.

wow, this is fascinating about Vini and Stephen Street. please tell more. Also Break Up The Family is fucking amazing.

I don't remember where I read the thing about Vini Reilly being regretful, but maybe Bus Driver Stu can fill in some details.

I adore "Alsatian Cousin," but I gotta go with "Suedehead".

Not on the original album, but "Hairdresser on Fire" is so much the best track here after "Suedehead" and "Everyday is Like Sunday."

Most overrated track: "Late Night, Maudlin Street."

Most underrated track" "The Ordinary Boys."

Alfred, I'm warning you. Anyone who speaks disparagingly of Late Night, Maudlin Street risks an encounter in an alley with Bimble which will not be pleasant.

Sorry -- it's as maudlin as the title promises. "Angel, Angel, Down We Go Together" says everything "...Maudlin" does and is shorter.

Wasn't Vini Reilly all bummed out about having to embellish upon what he saw as being overly simple or boring chord progressions on this record?

Vini Reilly Interview in Mojo:

"I got the call from Stephen Street one night when I was driven over to the studio where he and Morrissey were recording. Stephen had produced two of my albums, so we were friends. He played me demos of some rudimentary songs he'd recorded and, frankly, they were awful – just C and F chords with the odd A-minor every once in a while – laughably basic stuff. Morrissey was there, squatting in a corner, visibly squirming.
Basically, they wanted me to rescue these tracks, so I went away to have a think about it. I agreed, on the condition that I could re-write all the music from scratch."
In fact, there was actually one really good song – Suedehead – which Stephen Street had written, right down to the guitar solo. But it really was the only one; all the other music on the record is mine.
Working with Morrissey didn't daunt me at all. I had a brief chat with Johnny Marr, which put me at my ease – I knew what to expect. Morrissey is a very responsive singer. He'd always surprise me by singing the chorus over what I'd written as a verse – and vice versa. Musically, I had a completely free rein. I could do anything, from wig-out solos to little Spanish trills and the full string arrangement on Angel, Angel, Down We Go Together. Even the guillotine at the end was my idea.
I've never been credited for those songs – they're attributed to Stephen Street and Morrissey. My name doesn't appear at all on the recent reissue. Don't get me wrong, I have only admiration for Mozzer – I met him in Manchester recently and we had a nice chat. I just want history to record my contribution accurately.

Who cares? I think it was Rob Sheffield who said that Moz's job is to vocally embellish guitar tracks, their authorship notwithstanding.

"Late night Maudlin Street". At the time I was in the height of my Smiths / Durutti phase, so for me this was the perfect amalgam of the two, sounding like Mozz singing over a Durutti track. Still brings chills to my spine. Just wish it didn't have that clumpy Tears For Fears / Wool Hall drum machine.

I still think "Every day is like Sunday" nneds to send money to "Dancing Doctors" by the Freshies!

Interesting reading re: Vini's contributions. Certainly, he'd have known the freshies song...

i dont how this cannot be suedehead, but alsatian cousin is pretty great

'break up the family' for most overlooked song on the album

I voted "Break Up the Family" - it's the best "album track" on here. The singles don't even fit on it, they're so much more polished.

Who cares? I think it was Rob Sheffield who said that Moz's job is to vocally embellish guitar tracks, their authorship notwithstanding.

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:52 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Link

rob sheffield sounds like an idiot then.

'break up the family' for most overlooked song on the album

Yes, this is great.

I am so grateful for the Vini information. Thanks very much, Alba.

wait 'hairdresser...' isn't on VIVA HATE! @ least not my copy.

noo noo, it was on the "everyday" 12" single/minialbum

Hairdresser was not on the original album, I know. But it made it to my CD copy somehow.

Most overlooked though, I would say "I Don't Mind if You Forget Me"

"Break Up The Family" reminds me of an evening spent at my best friend's house before we started my senior year of high school. After smuggling a bottle of brandy from his parents' liquor cabinet, he poured shots for us. Viva Hate was playing on his turntable.

Sounds fantastic Alfred!

But I just came here to say hmmm...let's hear it for "The Ordinary Boys". I'm gonna play that one again.

Same cannot be said of Preston et al.

Bengali in Platforms is a strange one for me: I love the tune, but it's difficult to see the lyrics as anything other than racist. Angel, Angel... and Alsatian Cousin are both good. Every Day... does nothing for me at all. Suedehead is the stand out track by some distance.

It's not like Bengali is sung from the view of Morrissey himself telling the Bengali that he doesn't belong. Same goes for Asian Rut. I like wikipedia's explanation:

"Asian Rut" is a tale about the murder of an Asian by three English boys in which Morrissey's vocals are backed only by strings and bass, lending an eerie quality to the somber narrative. The song continues the tradition of Morrissey attacking English racism from a unique angle, first established with "Bengali in Platforms" on Viva Hate.

He's putting forth a narrative but not explicitly stating the "correct" position, but rather leaving that up to how the listener interprets the lyrics.

I hope this doesn't lead into another skin storm of whether or not Morrissey is a racist.

pretty please?

i agree; he pretty obviously is.

i dont want to talk about whether or not moz is or was racist, but i think its bs to compare asian rut to bengali when there is considerably more narrative distance, & even criticism at the aggressors, in the former song

Racist or not, both songs suck; they're pretty to no purpose.

Suedehead, LNMS, Everyday . . .

Most overlooked though, I would say "I Don't Mind if You Forget Me"

Yes.

"every day is like sunday". i'd like "bengali ..." to get some kind of demerit for being one of the most appalling heaps of shit ever recorded, though.

Alright I certainly concede on the point of Asian Rut being more legit in terms of its message but I still feel that with Bengali he's speaking from a fictional viewpoint. It's not Morrissey just going on about a Bengali not being welcome, but Morrissey putting forth that point of view with detachment. Of course it's up to the listener to find it offensive or not and either view is legitimate but I still don't peg him as a racist. Yeah his recent comments weren't thought out very well but his sentiments aren't grounded in a view of "some races are better than others." Racism isn't a discrete value where you either are or aren't a racist, and I think Morrissey is still on the right side of that continuum.

fair enough, but i think he's a cunt.

(my bengali, smiths-loving mate and i discussed this one at length many years ago and i've heard nothing since that changes my opinions ;)

(a cunt, i should add, who's made a lot of music that i absolutely adore.)

Fuck, I voted without re-listening (a common error for me on polls). If I could do it over, I'd go for "Ordinary Boys." Maybe I'm being swayed by its apparent critical renaissance here...

Also, Grimly's comment reminds me of a feeling I had lately: when I was a teen, loved him pretty uncritically, thought his eloquence was great, etc. Last week I was on youtube watching some old interviews with him, and I realized that he's a pretty unattractive character; not only in terms of his views on some subjects, but he actually has a smarmy, glib and slightly nasty quality in speech that I didn't notice as a kid. Maybe a cunt looks different when you're older?

trying to attribute narrative distance to a writer who almost always sings from the perspective of the exact same narrator, whose name is usually "Morrissey," is a little dicey - I mean if he hadn't hung his hat on "I shall speak my mind in my songs," fair enough, but as it is, there isn't really ample cause to say "and here our Mozz is assuming a narrative voice with which he does not agree" unless the cause is "well I like Morrissey and do not like to think of him as a racist ass"

and yes we've done all this before, but what the hell right

by 'narrative distance' i specifically meant

I'm just passing through here
On my way to somewhere civilised
And maybe I'll even arrive
Maybe I'll even arrive

at the end of asian rut - ie, the narrator is morrissey, & this is exactly the point

Hmm, see I'd always heard that as the, er, "Asian" immigrant on his/her way through somewhere not as nasty (where it's not 3 against 1 etc).

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

If "Disappointed" was on the album, I would have voted for that.

Just back from seeing the Smyths... how we laughed...

Is Morrissey really not taking any position himself in "Bengali"? I really don't know how it would be possible to see e.g. the first verse as anything other than condescension. It seems fairly evident to me that the reason the Bengali is even wearing platforms in the song is for him to be mocked for his outdated fashion sense.

Anyway, much discussion here: Was/Is Morrissey Racist?

nabisco did well.

I think I voted "Alsatian Cousin" anyway. I like how the guitars sound and the "note upon his desk" verse. I also like the "When they've bought you and they've sold and they've billed you for the pleasure and they made your parents cry" part from "Angel".

Yeah I played this whole album again today and strangely I decided I felt the same as Sundar about Bengali. The whole thing seemed far too incriminating. Morrissey is such a strange character. Like Grimly, I too believe he is a cunt. Moz has just done too many cunt-y things in his day not to be. Tony Wilson said similar, as well.

But oh those lyrics (when he's good he's REALLY good isn't he?), and oh that voice, etc etc...it's such a strange paradox.

Not that I'll cop to liking ALL his solo stuff, far from it.

So! Best one off this album? I dunno, I'm just voting for Maudlin because...well...I just am. It stands out, it's quite different from everything else and you get the FULL-on Vini Reilly guitar and once you've memorized ALL the words you realize how wonderful it is and it goes around in your head and blah blah blah...

But I guess what I was trying to get across is that I think really any choice off this album is just fine.

But WHY WHY WHY did he have to be driving a fucking tractor in the video for Suedehead? Was that really necessary?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR5LS_LAnWw

alsatian cousin

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I'm very pleased.

Little Man, What Now? is better than at least half the songs that got a vote.

Yeah, I agree that one should have got at least one vote.

third that - i almost voted for it but had to go with the fave. surprised by the winner too actually.

on disappointed (live) when the fan grabs the microphone and screams MORRISSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY in the gayest voice possible....

words cannot describe the joy it brings to me.

Never saw this poll but would have voted for "Little Man, What Now?"

appropriately, the top 6 along with "Bengali in Platforms" are the only ones I can really remember the tune of

Never saw this poll but would have voted for "Late Night, Maudlin Street". So many great lines.

When I sleep
With that picture of you framed beside my bed
Oh, its childish and its silly
But I think its you in my room, by the bed.
Yes, I told you it was silly.

maudlin street it would have been for me. totally agree with the "moz singing on a durutti track" bliss.

Which live version is that Cutty? I've never heard that. One of my top 5 songs of his, though...

it's on my version of viva hate

and way better than the studio version

In 1997, EMI, in celebration of their 100th anniversary, released a special edition of this album in the UK. It features different cover work, and a different booklet (it has a photograph of a billboard for Beethoven Was Deaf and drops the lyrics), and features 8 bonus tracks - only one of which was contemporaneous with the album. "Hairdresser on Fire" does not appear on this version despite originally added to the North American version of the album as a bonus track. The bonus songs are:

"Let the Right One Slip In"
"Pashernate Love"
"At Amber"
"Disappointed (Live)"
"Girl Least Likely To"
"I'd Love To"
"Michael's Bones"
"I've Changed My Plea to Guilty"
In addition to receiving bonus tracks, the album was also remastered.

Oh okay, my CD copy is obviously ancient. They were dicks for not putting Hairdresser On Fire on there, though.

here you go bimble:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/4jymhn3yqiw/16 Disappointed (Live).mp3

argh

http://www.mediafire.com/?4jymhn3yqiw

Thanks Cutty. Sure sounds like he's saying "Morris Day!" though LOL

I was getting ready to have to defend I don't mind if you forget me but it turns out I did that 11 months ago! Hahaa.

on disappointed (live) when the fan grabs the microphone and screams MORRISSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY in the gayest voice possible....

Oh is THAT what that is? I always assumed it was the house MC announcing him off the stage.

morrissey: this is the last song i'll ever sing
crowd: NOOOOOOO!!!!
morrissey: ehhhh yes yes yes yes yes yes yesssss good night and thank you!

(microphone hits the ground)

insane fan in the front row: MORRRRISSAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

I see.

Followed shortly by

sound board dude: Microphone off

Some interesting thought about "Bengali...." up there. I feel maybe that one and "Asian Rut" were Morrissey trying to do what The Cure had already done with "Killing An Arab", only he failed to a much bigger extent than The Cure did, because people didn't get the irony.

Errr, "Killing an Arab" has absolutely nothing to do with "Bengali..."

Anyway, I've listened quite a few times again to 'Viva Hate' this week and I'm starting to think that I like it more than any of the Smiths album really (except 'Hatful' but that ain't an album so...)

WTF is Morrissey's deal with fucking with the past? He's got some weird George Lucas tinkering fetish. I just became aware of the 2012 reissue of this album - which, in addition to terrible typeface on the front cover, contains a butchered "Late Night Maudlin Street" and an out-of-place-sounding demo of "Treat Me Like a Human Being" replacing "The Ordinary Boys." There are no bonus tracks.

Stephen Street was involved with the remastering but had no say in the track selection/editing process:

http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/interview/stephen-street-talks-viva-hate-and-trying-to-keep-morrissey-happy/

I didn't like the changes to the Bona Drag reissue either. I don't get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb6K0rJGu5w
a brazillian brega version of suedehead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2GSYYMAE0

Rhoda Dakar's reggae version of EDILS

Nice!