The Pogues: Classic or Dud

there isn't a 'pick only one' for them yet as far as i can tell so
i'll start and say 'waxie's dargle'.
'thousands are sailing' also killa.

(Shane was once so wasted during a gig at a festival (i don't remember which, a dutch or belgian one it was) it was almost too painfull to watch... he forgot about the cigarette he was smoking and the lyrics he was singing, just blabbering on. Until someone came from backstage to walk him off stage, supporting him like one supports an old man across the street (only to find out that he actually didn't want to...). The guitarist (clearly fed up with the situation) took over on vocals and they rushed their way through the set)

POO is impossible but i'll say 'A Pair Of Brown Eyes' because my girlfriend's in the video! (and it's a classic video too)

I've seen a lot bands over the years, and a lot of them were really good. Really really good. Some were stunning and a few have left my jaw hanging open. Then there's The Pogues. 1987. Hollywood Palladium. The Pogues guitarist was missing for the tour - Joe Strummer was filling in.

Holy cow folks... Calling it a mere show doesn't really begin to describe the malestrom pouring off the stage. A band of desperates who clearly didn't give a fuck about anything but yet somehow channeled that all that unhinged abandon into some spectacular intense playing. I really had no previous experience to compare it to - maybe the final shootout in The Wild Bunch or something. My ass was kicked.

The funny thing was that The Pogues were the opening band that night. The headliners were Los Lobos and this night was their first LA show since "La Bamba" went #1. Los Lobos were indeed great, but one of the first thing Cesar Rosas says is "we''d like to thank The Pogues for kicking our ass tonight".

"Boys from the County Hell", "Streams of Whiskey" and "Transmetropolitan" are three of the most rip-roaring songs I've ever heard, and when you compare them to beautiful songs like "A Rainy Night in Soho", "Misty Morning, Albert Bridge", "Fairytale of New York" and "Thousands are Sailing", the guy is a total all-round genius.

I'm SUCH a Pogues fan, I even like that albuim without Shane - Waiting For Herb. Heavy nostalgia / ex girl moves for me on that one tho, so no foul

"By the way, if you are a Pogues fan living in Glasgow, Newcastle, Birmingham,Manchester, London or Dublin and are hoping to see (the 1987-1990 line up of)The Pogues one last time, December 13 through to December 23 (2004) would be a really bad time to leave town."

The Pogues Reunion 2004

13.12.2004 - Glasgow Academy
14.12.2004 - Glasgow Academy
16.12.2004 - Newcastle Arena
17.12.2004 - Birmingham Academy
18.12.2004 - Manchester Evening News Arena
20.12.2004 - London Brixton Academy
21.12.2004 - London Brixton Academy
23.12.2004 - Dublin Point (MCD)

Ah hell, who am I kidding? Classic for Rum, Sodomy & The Lash, the finest record I own with the name "Elvis Costello" on it.

BTW, I too saw Joe Strummer playing with the Pogues (Detroit, '87) during the same tour that Chris mentioned upthread, and everything he says about that show was right on. As far as I can remember...

(They did "London Calling"! Sounded GREAT!)

The Joe Strummer tour was reviewed in one of the UK weekly mags with the classic headline "Rum, Sodomy and The Clash".

My book here says it's Shane McGowan's birthday today. He's 50 years old.

Happy christmas yer arse.

Last night he was on Harry Hill's TV Burp singing Fairytale of New York with a beluga whale.

Shouldn't this topic be "Classic or Drunk"?

It is astounding that Shane MacGowan is still alive but Kirsty MacColl is dead.

And I think he will be touring with the Pogues in America in March 2008

"ferried around america with the pogues" might be a better construction. but he made 50, that's an achievement. the man's liver gives hope to us all. really all his organs deserve respect.

Will someone please, please, please tell me who the woman is singing on this. I don't believe it's Kirsty MacColl. Please. Is this on a Pogues album? It's a b-side isn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN-8JpgmA0s

Sounds like Belinda Carlisle but it's probably Cait O'Riordan.

that's Cait O'Riordan, who used to play bass for the Pogues until Daryl Hunt took over from "If I Should Fall..." Unfortunately, she married Elvis Costello after he produced "Rum, Sodomy, and the Lash."

That song was written by Shane MacGowan but it's on the Sid and Nancy soundtrack. It's also on the excellent Pogues box set that just came out.

incidentally, MONUMENTAL CLASSIC. That box set kicks fucking ass.

also a great version of that song with sinead o'connor on shane's first solo album.

It was a single in its own right as well. As tipsy says, there's a version on "The Snake" as well featuring Sinead O'Connor.

Sinead O'Connor version is not as good, IMHO. And his solo version of "Rake at the Gates of Hell" is fucking terrible compared to the original. But, shockingly, he made another amazing Christmas song after he went solo. It's called "Christmas Lullaby" and unbelievably, it's nearly as good as "Fairytale of New York." That song was on a limited edition single only, alas.

i sort of prefer the sinead version, it's more wistful and draws out the melody more. both are great though. "you looked so cool you could have put out vietnam" is one of my favorite shane lines.

here's the video to the album version of shane/sinead. (produced by trevor horn!)

Thanks ILM!!!!!!!!!

obligatory st paddy's day pogues video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TejJDFt6Tkk&feature=related

^Irvin Yalom OTM.
Speaking of Pogues x Steve Earle, I hear related appeal in the (candidly precarious, vibrantly focused) peak albums of Justin Townes Earle (a better singer than Steve): Midnight at the Movies was my gateway, and there were several more before he started seeming so fragile that I backed off---I didn't know him, so that was okay, I thought--then he rallied for The Saint of Lost Causes, one of his best ever, then he was gone.

those performances are so good, esp enjoyed hansard

really feeling this one today
just tearfully waltzed meself around the kitchen <3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66quTi26YLY

I love “Rainy Night in Soho,” but I didn’t realize its cultural impact, that it’s kind of the go-to Shane song other than “Fairytale of NY.”

podcast wise, “Misadventures in Music” with Ian Prowse and Mick Ord did a great ep about McGowan a couple of years ago in 2021 - very passionate & deep discussion, highly recommend

also includes a good interview at the end w the Crock of Gold producer

really feeling this one today
just tearfully waltzed meself around the kitchen <3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66quTi26YLY

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, December 8, 2023 9:36 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this and Five Green Queens are the songs I really really love from Hell's Ditch. Almost just wisps, but absurdly lovely, a kind of brilliance that's miles away from his ferocious piles of words.

yeah the simplicity really bowls me over, just as much as his epics do

I love “Rainy Night in Soho,” but I didn’t realize its cultural impact, that it’s kind of the go-to Shane song other than “Fairytale of NY.”

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, December 8, 2023 10:15 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

yup and I can never puzzle out whether its careful ambiguity is part of the deal or sort of off to one side of a gorgeous romantic-sounding record. Cool either way, songs have their own lives.

We have sin gas
And con leche

re Soho: macgowan is one of the rare few songwriters I’m not mad at rhyming arms with charms

macgowan said years ago that he didnt know what it was about even while he was writing until almost the end, which is something i love
theres an ease to the flow of the lyrics that makes it very believable that it just showed up fully formed
he was communing with a good & kind muse that day imo

You’re the measure of my dreams

That one is breaking me right now

fully sobbed over that line again today

Some people they are scared to croak
But Jimmy drank until he choked

WE WALKED HIM TO THE STATION IN THE RAINNNN

WE KISSED HIM AS WE PUT HIM ON THE TRAIN

That was my first response when heard about his death, just posted the chorus to Sally MacLennane. We sang him a song of times long gone, though we knew that we'd be seeing him again.

FARRR AWAAAY!!

heard them say that Jimmy's making money far away
And some people left for heaven without warning

me fave:

Now Jimmy didn't like his place in this world of ours
Where the elephant man broke strong men's necks
When he'd had too many Powers

Strangely, the lines that tend to get to me are

For to shift a few tons of this earthly delight

Yes to shift a few tons of this earthly delight

I know Shane didn't write that song but the way he delivers it just kinda works for me

His delivery is at least as much a part of his appeal as his writing.

And yet he was one of the rare songwriters whose lyrics are good on the page as well

Stumbled on this after watching an RTE Late Late Show tribute to McGowan from yesterday...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otVTYS1fR6c

(bah, can't embed, but it's Shane and many of the same people from the tribute from the other night, from 2019. Shane in not great shape but sings a bit alongside a large band including Terry Woods)

I don’t know enough about Puddles the clown to have an opinion of him, but this is a pretty delightful performance of “A Man You Don’t Meet Every Day” with THE actual Cait O’Riordan.

https://fb.watch/oQBALSjS81/?mibextid=cr9u03

every time I see a Puddles video I'm kind of blown away, that guy has a great voice and good schtick

(xxpost) if you ever wanted to see Martin O'Malley (yes that one) sing a Pogues song you can see it here

RS Album Guide

https://i.imgur.com/gd095xW.png

lol @ Waiting for Herb one-star. before I knew anything about The Pogues I wanted to get one of their albums because I'd heard good things about them and that album was the only one of theirs on the rack, and rather than do research, I picked it up, and was very confused by what I was hearing. didn't even realize it was a Shane-less album at the time.

suspect it'd be easier to like if it's not your first foray into Pogue-dom and you can hear it in context but never got through the first listen

Tuesday Morning is a really good song. The rest of the album I don't remember! I don't remember hating it though. It was better than the next one.

weirdly it was produced by Michael Brook (of Eno/Lanois and Edge's 'infinite guitar' fame)

J.D.C. = J.D. Considine?

i'm amazed there isn't more chat about the funeral. it was literally the craziest thing ever.

i can't find the whole thing online but it was cool to see Nick Cave do Rainy Night and Hansard do Fairytale. Lots of love in there. Was the terribly old man in the front pew McGowan's father? Also, was the casket in a wicker basket?

yes and yes. his father seemed to be emotionally in turmoil throughout while everyone else was having the time of their lives, his wife especially. not being judgemental here; it was very fitting, but very, very odd seeing his wife leaping over pews to dance. i'm not sure how typical this was but if it was, i have to say nobody seemingly does a funeral like the irish. well, maybe the good folk of new orleans can compete.

he was ill for so long I can't blame her for trying to finally have a good time.

i felt a bit of a kinship with his Dad being the only one not clapping, something about applause at a funeral in a church that feels slightly craven/sacriligious

always feel a bit overcome for parents who outlive their children
he’s quite up there iirc, isnt he in his mid 90’s?

but the funeral also felt v mcgowan & the highspiritedness was of course appropriate for him & his vibe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQFLz0WHhSA

Highly, highly recommend the late Carol Clerk's "Kiss My Arse: The Story of the Pogues." I think it's out of print, but I was able to find an e copy*, and wow, is it not just a great story in its own right, it's one of the best rock and roll books I've ever read to delve into the nuts and bolts business stuff of being in a big band. Everyone is amazingly transparent and honest, and of course the stories are incredible.

*(if anyone wants a copy, hmu ...)

What about that other book, Here Comes Everybody?

That was written by Fearnley, right? I think I may have only one Pogues book in me, but I bet that's good, too. The interviews with everyone in the one I read were really intelligent and funny and honest.

a year ago today

playing Rum Sodomy & The Lash up to the heavens <3

This is good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUSNzqqLFT0

For the second year in a row, we'll be at the Pogues live tribute at the London Irish Centre next Friday; hopefully a yearly xmas tradition we can continue for a while. A good time.

that sounds pretty great

What about that other book, Here Comes Everybody?

― Sir Lester Leaps In (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, October 29, 2024 7:16 PM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglin

I enjoyed it when I read it a few years ago.
Was thinking on seeing expanded 40th anniversary editions that I stupidly passed up chances to see the early band despite being aware of them and being acquainted with Shane as record shop staff in the shop behind the Virgin Megastore. Was trying to think if I ever saw them at one of various festivals a little later. Do have the single cds now.

i

Bob Dylan covered A Rainy Night in Soho as the final song of his set in Phoenix last night.

From the great "Kiss My Arse" Pogues book:

In September, they flew out to America for the most prestigious dates of their career, supporting Bob Dylan at six concerts in southern California before heading off to other states for their own headlining tour. It seems that Dylan had personally asked for the band, having heard about them from his son Jesse, a confirmed fan. And the word was that he was really looking forward to seeing them play.

Unfortunately for everybody, Shane MacGowan didn’t get on the plane. Frantic transatlantic phone calls ensued, with Shane complaining that airline staff kept banning him from boarding because he was drunk.

Dylan met his support band

only once, venturing out from behind his wall of security on the first night to shake their hands as they came offstage and exchange a few words. He’d watched the set but passed no comment about it. After that, they didn’t see him again, except on stage. They did, however, see Bruce Springsteen, who visited their dressing room at the Greek Theatre, an outdoor venue set among trees in Los Angeles.

Andrew Ranken gives Shane’s story the benefit of the doubt. He says: “I’ve always been a huge Bob Dylan fan and I thought it was a major coup to get on that tour. I’ve never understood what Shane’s problem was except that I think he’d been on one of his holidays in Thailand. I think he was certainly doing opium when he went there, but God knows what else as well. He did that a couple of times, went off to Thailand and thoroughly indulged himself and came back in a state where he wasn’t fit for anything. He was stopped from boarding a plane. That’s fact. Two or three times he wasn’t allowed to get on the plane cos he was too out of it. I thought, ‘What a twat.’

“I think he may have realised that he wasn’t in a fit state to perform properly. Maybe he was doing us all a big favour by not turning up. Dear old Shane – thank God he didn’t come! It could’ve been a disaster! Who knows?”

Spider also sees a certain humour in the situation: “I do remember backstage at one of the Dylan gigs, all the Californian (Hell’s) Angels were there. I was just thinking, ‘It’s a good thing that Shane isn’t actually here.’ I could just see an unpleasant situation developing if he took exception to them.”

Stacy agrees with Jem that the most probable explanation for Shane’s missing the flights – either by accident or design – was that he “wasn’t that bothered about going”.

Darryl suggests, thoughtfully, that the airport staff in London “could’ve handled it better – they didn’t have to give him so much trouble”. And he says of Shane’s no-show, “There might have been a psychosomatic thing going on. Maybe he wanted to stay on the sunny side of the street. Maybe there was a Bob Dylan thing going on – he was very keen to see us and I think he recognised in Shane a fellow story-teller, a poet. Shane could’ve been quite freaky about even working with him. Shane’s quite shy sometimes. Bob Dylan was pretty disappointed.”

Philip Chevron agrees: “Shane’s always been a bit angsty, reserved or stand-offish, with people who would be his peers. There are very few people in his class who he actually knows, partly because he’s shy and partly because he hates the implied competition. Bob Dylan – if you want to get on an airplane, you can get on an airplane. Shane didn’t want to be judged alongside Bob Dylan. He loved Tom Waits but he had no interest in hanging out with Tom as the rest of the band did. What he has is so precious and personal to him that he hates to feel it’s under challenge or under question. Even if there’s a possibility of that, he backs off.”

MacGowan shoots back, perfectly: “After doing a single with The Dubliners and having Terry Woods join the group, you know what I mean – I’m not going to get fazed by Bob Dylan.”

He casually adds: “Dylan is all right. He’s a nice guy. He’s always been courteous to me. Jesse Dylan was a good mate, with Los Lobos and stuff in California. That was a fun part of California, but that was basically Mexico. I mean, Jesse, he used to hang around the studio. He liked his old man’s stuff, but he liked The Pogues’ music. He was younger than us – but not much younger.”

James Fearnley drew a direct comparison between MacGowan and Dylan when he recently watched the acclaimed Dylan documentary, No Direction Home. He adds: “In the same way as Dylan, Shane – whether or not he would agree with me – is just like a vessel through which traditional music is coming. He’s part of a tradition that pre-dates him by hundreds and hundreds of years, and all he’s doing is stepping into it and wading up to his neck in it. To some degree he might feel a bit loath to take credit for music that’s been going on for hundreds of years.”