So what's the deal with reissued vinyl?

My vinyl reissue of Third doesn't sound very good either.

labels are doing vinyl mastering from digital sources = teh suck

otm

many vinyl mastering places are closing, the few places left that do a good job are swamped and take months and months to deliver -- if you're a smaller label requesting a pressing of 500-1000, you'll find your order booted over and over. most of the backup places people turn to are using the latest sawed off digital remasters to work with, which have to be further compromised & tamed before they can be cut -- either that or they don't listen to what they're cutting at all, they just pretty much run the RIAA EQ curve plugin on the CD and go

does Golden still do work himself? that guy was about his business

i didn't know that Mr Parker.
sounds bloody awful.
i just assumed that labels were cutting the vinyl to preserve the perceived purity of sound for those who aint liking the cd sonics.
ie. they were mastered via a different process ..
so, i guess that means the MGMT album will sound like shit on vinyl as well then ?

what are some examples of reissued vinyl that sounds good and what are some that are musts to avoid?

i was gonna get the channel one story on vinyl but wasnt sure about it as it came out in 2004. not sure how good VP's pressings are.

vinyl is mastered using a different process, but it's been 10 years since most people delivered analog masters to engineers. the warm sound of vinyl is technically distortion, but listeners like the sound of it and missed it from distortion-free CDs, so now that 'warm sound' is added to digital masters with analog modelling. in the hands of a bad engineer, cutting vinyl from a boosted / warmed up CD master means it's getting warmed up twice = mud

it's a case-by-case basis thing -- people talk too much about one format being better, when it's usually more a case of which engineer is behind the board. in the 80's there were far more engineers who knew what they were doing with vinyl than there were for CDs, now 25+ years later the opposite is true but the first 10 years of crispy CDs created an unstoppable perception than 'vinyl is always better' when it is more about the talent of the masterer

so, case-by-case basis, plenty of labels are still doing amazing vinyl reissues, that last batch of Cluster & Eno vinyl reissues sounded better than the 70's Sky vinyl ever did

i know i was bitching about them on the other thread, but Four Men With Bears reissue of Gene Clark's "White Light" sounds very good. So do their Scott Walker reissues, according to Scott.

aha, 4 Men did the Cluster & Eno's as well

gotta salute this guy: http://www.sfweekly.com/2006-08-16/music/the-italian-job/

anyone hear the reissue of 'deluxe' by harmonia?

"Recently I've gotten reissued copies of The Pretty Things' Parachute"

you can find an original rare earth copy of parachute for probably less than a new reissue would cost you. and they sound great. even the later 70's era twofer album of sf sorrow/parachute on rare earth - which i can't believe would cost anyone more than ten bucks used - sounds amazing.

So when vinyl engineers are given a digital source, is it usually basically just the CD or a higher-resolution digital format, one that delivers say 24 bit sound? I'd always figured it would be the latter, so that there would at least be the potential to eke out more detail.

At vinyl.com they say the label gives them a DAT tape to make the record from — does DAT have the same fidelity as CD?

4 men with beards (or bears as ian likes to call them) won my allegiance with the big star 3rd vinyl. it has never sounded better. scott 3 is especially handsome. the sound is wonderful and the packaging is an exact repro of the u.k. original, only nicer! their sonny sharrock reissue i got is likewise very nice. i really should pick up their metal box reissue.

there are still people doing excellent work with vinyl. i'm sure it gets harder every day. labels like sunbeam, man, they really work hard on that stuff. and it's actually worth the money. listening to their oriental sunshine reissue the other day i just can not get over how amazing it sounds. finder's keepers. numero group. oh there are lots really. i admire good work! and i always salute it when i can.

Glad to know about those Soft Machine reissues before I buy them. This is obv. a super lame way to do vinyl, krikey. You can start with a digital source but you have to know how to master for analog or else -- why even do it?!

FYI, I know a great and inexpensive guy in Portland, if anyone needs this service. He's busy enough already but like all of us I'm sure he could use the work. He's done all the Mississippi Records LPs, which to me sound amazing but then I'm kind of affiliated with them too so I'm not exactly "objective" here.

I would like to point out that when my own band records something with the intention of a vinyl release, we do a separate mastering job for vinyl OK

I'm surprised to hear the 4 men with beards comments. The only things I've bought on the label have been disappointing, Judee Sill, Tim Buckley.

you can find an original rare earth copy of parachute for probably less than a new reissue would cost you.

Are you sure a bout this? See the twofer regularly, but even the rare earth press is pretty scarce... and a new vinyl reissue is only $10. It's a Scorpio title, though not one I own, so I can't speak to their sound quality. FWIW, Scorpio also did the Soft Machine reissues; those are records you can find around, though; i see Soft Machine 2 a fair bit. Great record.

Disappointing in sound quality, or disappointing in that you just didn't like them? I thought the Four Men "Lorca" sounded fine. Haven't heard the Judee Sill records, which while fine sounding, aren't exactly audiophile favorites, are they?

in before jerryseinfeld.jpg

Disappointing in sound quality/depth/presence. Didn't get me excited about listening again, and these are albums that usually do that. But, ya, the Sill recordings do have some intrinsic flaws. Starsailor is the one Buckley I have from them, and I prefer the CD.

milton thx for that article link. i've always wondered who the 4 men with Beards were. well i still don't know, but i suspect that Runt owner guy is one of them.

also it would be cool if they didn't print 4 men with beardo on the label itself. that is all.

that should be a poll--label reproduction on reissues y/n.

i haven't heard the sill or tim reissues. i have an original white label promo of judee's s/t album and it sounds phat! so does my original promo of lorca. i mention those merely to brag.

so, yeah, OF THE BEARDO RECORDS I'VE HEARD, i will vouch for the ones i named above. especially the big star.

and, yeah, ian, you might be right about original u.s. pressings of parachute. it didn't used to be that scarce, but maybe it's harder now. i haven't tried looking.

oh and drag city's red hash sounds awesome too. they did that one up right.

WORST SOUNDING REISSUES I HAVE BOUGHT IN THE LAST YEAR: well, duh, they were on cd. two of those bevis frond 60's comps. direct from vinyl, no doubt, but still...(the folk rock one especially. just bad.)

which ones were they? the ones i've heard are obviously direct from vinyl (45s yo) but sounded pretty good.

I got really excited and purchased the 180 gram gold remastered Roadrunner Classics series reissue of Sepultura Chaos AD. It's mastered so quiet I have to turn the mixer almost all the way up when I Dj this thing.

Also, the artwork appears to have been blown up from the CD artwork as there is terrible .jpg-like pixelation.

It's a really shoddy reissue. Paying $18-$22 for 180 gram sonic garbage is a big let down.

i really can't think of any vinyl reissues that i've bought in the last couple of years that i have a problem with. i'll have to think harder.

hey, here is something i heard the other day that i never knew. when white christmas became such a smash and sold millions of records the original master recording got worn out and bing had to go in the studio and cut another version and that second version is the one that people play on the radio today. everyone probably already knows that story. i thought it was neat.

The Lollipop Shoppe bootleg from last year sounded like SHIT.
I've heard a few complains about the "Sleep's Holy Mountain" reissue too.

^^^ ian

I'm always skeptical of vinyl reissues. Nico's Drama of Exile deluxe 2lp on Earmark sounds bad.

At vinyl.com they say the label gives them a DAT tape to make the record from — does DAT have the same fidelity as CD?

DAT is 20-bit, and CD is 16-bit. So there's a small amount of dithering that must happen to go from DAT to CD. I don't recall the Hz issue.

I may be thinking ADAT, not DAT, here.

The Lollipop Shoppe bootleg from last year sounded like SHIT.
I've heard a few complains about the "Sleep's Holy Mountain" reissue too.

-- bell_labs, Saturday, April 5, 2008 8:41 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

ahahaha i thought that post was dubious

Anyone heard the Boscoe vinyl reissue? Curious how the vinyl rip turned back into vinyl sounds.

The Lollipop Shoppe bootleg from last year sounded like SHIT.

The one that's billed as The Weeds? I'd be interested to know because I've almost picked that up on several occasions.

I think it's a straight boot of the Lollipop Shoppe LP mastered (poorly) from a CD. everything sounds... squished.

This doesn't make sense. "when white christmas became such a smash and sold millions of records the original master recording got worn out"

Master recordings aren't involved with the reproduction of sound carriers. The stampers undoubtedly wore out, and maybe even the mothers, and the record would have had to have been recut...

Also, there are many many fine mastering houses still cutting vinyl. On a related point. I had the opportunity to get free demo lacquers cut @ 4 reputable cutting labs so I had them all cut the same side. It's amazing how different they are.

Anyone heard the Boscoe vinyl reissue? Curious how the vinyl rip turned back into vinyl sounds.

how do you know it's a vinyl rip? numero is pretty much on the up and up and always try to source the masters whenever possible.

Libcrypt: yes, it's ADAT you're thinking of. There are some 24-bit DAT decks out there (I think Tascam introduced one in the late-'90s), but the standard for DAT is typically 16-bit/48kHz (though they can record at 32k or 44.1k).

i thought the boscoe vinyl sounded good. so if it is a vinyl rip it's a good one.

"Master recordings aren't involved with the reproduction of sound carriers. The stampers undoubtedly wore out, and maybe even the mothers, and the record would have had to have been recut..."

yeah, okay, so that happened then. i heard someone talk about this on the radio, but they didn't get very specific. they just said that the original recording got worn out.

numero group's new comp "wayfaring strangers" of private & ultra-obscure fingerpickers is awesome. i have a few of the cuts on it already </braggart> but it's all pretty high quality and enjoyable for fans of the Takoma school of guitar instrumentals.

ooh i saw that being unpacked in a store friday, and i didnt stop to see exactly what it was. that sounds rad as shit!

4mwb metal box sounds awesome, but not quite as awes as earlier press of the first album

how do you know it's a vinyl rip? numero is pretty much on the up and up and always try to source the masters whenever possible.

Because when you start the CD you can hear vinyl sound. Not saying that it's not "on the up and up" lots of masters have been lost or otherwise rendered useless, so using vinyl is sometimes the only way to go.

oh yeah i need wayfaring strangers before it run out.

matinee, definitely true. didn't mean to sound like i was directly challenging you, just wasn't sure if it was an assumption or not. thanks for clarifying.

yo sanskrit i can put aside a wayfaring strangers fer you if you want, email me.

i.e. be very careful.
interesting stuff.
i am so glad i never got into the whole vinyl thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/article/2024/jun/15/vinyl-came-back-from-the-dead-and-so-did-the-bootleggers-inside-the-booming-business-of-knock-off-records

how did people not realize those were bootlegs? it looks like a little kid painted the album art with watercolors

those bootleg reissues take up the bulk of the stalls at camden market IME

xpost: those covers in the article are just illustrations for the article

jokes aside, i could give a shit about these "bootleggers" -- it's just a part of the record world and always has been. some folks are scummier than others, but the idea that anybody needs to go to prison for this is insane, especially in a world where the spotify CEO gets to run free. the quote from BPI about artists getting their due is laughable, like they give any fucks at all artists

yeah that is true. the disappointing thing is ripping off uknowing consumers. when I was last in London with friends their son was really excited to find a vinyl copy of a Frank Ocean record at Camden and I talked him out of blowing sixty pounds on it because it would likely sound like shit. Though sometimes these sound fine (I had the first Gorillaz album on bootleg vinyl for a while and it sounded great, though I assume it was pressed from the CD)

the only copy of the Man Who Sold the World that I currently own is an orange vinyl pressing I picked up at Spitalfields. It's fine. It's a total bootleg.

budo jeru otm

thought this bump would be abt "real" reissues not what I think of as "counterfeit" records, that's a whole different thing.

re: actual vinyl reissues, this is still true imo:

vinyl is mastered using a different process, but it's been 10 years since most people delivered analog masters to engineers. the warm sound of vinyl is technically distortion, but listeners like the sound of it and missed it from distortion-free CDs, so now that 'warm sound' is added to digital masters with analog modelling. in the hands of a bad engineer, cutting vinyl from a boosted / warmed up CD master means it's getting warmed up twice = mud

it's a case-by-case basis thing -- people talk too much about one format being better, when it's usually more a case of which engineer is behind the board. in the 80's there were far more engineers who knew what they were doing with vinyl than there were for CDs, now 25+ years later the opposite is true but the first 10 years of crispy CDs created an unstoppable perception than 'vinyl is always better' when it is more about the talent of the masterer

so, case-by-case basis, plenty of labels are still doing amazing vinyl reissues, that last batch of Cluster & Eno vinyl reissues sounded better than the 70's Sky vinyl ever did

― Milton Parker, Friday, April 4, 2008 4:31 PM (sixteen years ago)

xp at akm, i understand that. i think consumer awareness is the best defense. when i was in middle school, i bought a bootleg CD of bob marley's "exodus" at a county fair. idk, eventually i put the pieces together. almost like a rite of passage for me

On point about Spotify, everything I hear from them about the money going to artists sounds like gaslighting, kinda trust the people who have less to eat these days more than the people who took over their food supply chain.

Anyway I think bootleg vinyl is a weird thing, not sure where the line is drawn between this guy and other shitty vinyl labels that were more "legitimate" and yet afaik despised by artists for being kinda shady (something you might apply to 4 men w beards and their related imprints iirc, for example)

the only copy of the Man Who Sold the World that I currently own is an orange vinyl pressing I picked up at Spitalfields. It's fine. It's a total bootleg.

apparently alot of the "real" Mercury US copies of that album actually are counterfeit.

I don't understand at all why there isn't just regular Frank Ocean records you can buy.