Canonical Hip-Hop Albums of 1988

EPMD, but I haven't heard the BDK, BDP, or Ultramag albums.

NWA, almost voted Slick Rick

Lame, obvious choice, but the beats on Nation are INSANE.

Can't vote for PE on principle: it's not even my fav PE album. Tempted to vote for Ultra, but Slick Rick is the Ruler.

goddamn this is hard.

"EPMD, but I haven't heard the BDK, BDP, or Ultramag albums."

Crazy.

(That you haven't heard those three records, although EPMD wouldn't be my choice.)

Which is PE (on the principle that it's best record.)

not possible

i kinda wanna vote NWA but there's a fair amount of filler on that compared to Great Adventures or Nation...

but damn EPMD is a great record too, as are all of these....it's pretty amazing for a poll when there's albums like Critical Beatdown and BDP that don't even feel like they're in the running...

Nation, duh.

great adventures

Crazy.

(That you haven't heard those three records, although EPMD wouldn't be my choice.)

-- Alex in SF, Thursday, April 10, 2008 9:53 AM (Thursday, April 10, 2008 9:53 AM) Bookmark Link

Meh. When I was in my rap canon phase I didn't have the internet or any friends similarly into rap canon to swap stuff with, and very limited income, so my exposure to this stuff is a bit limited.

missing:

Mc Lyte - Lyte as a Rock
Biz Markie - Going Off
Run DMC - Tougher Than Leather
Stetsasonic - In Full Gear
Too Short - Life Is...Too Short
Jungle Brothers - Straight Out the Jungle

But for me, probably BAMN anyway.

rev i'd check out the big daddy kane first

yeah im in the same vote as rev, same reasons really too

Meh. When I was in my rap canon phase I didn't have the internet or any friends similarly into rap canon to swap stuff with, and very limited income, so my exposure to this stuff is a bit limited.

The rap canon shouldn't be a phase, guys.

Esp since those albums are light years better than anything we talk about in the ringtone thread

By any Means Necessary > Illmatic

PE. But not by much. Trailing very close behind is def. Ultramagnetic MCs. Then very close behind that EMPD. Then Eric B. and Rakim. The rest contains too much filler to count despite patches of brilliance on each. And Slick Rick's masterpiece is The Ruler's Back.

And where's Jungle Brothers: Straight Out the Jungle?

And, um, The Real Roxanne?

And Road To Riches!

Oh wait that's 89 nevermind.

By any Means Necessary > Illmatic

-- Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:50 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

no way dogg, it's not even the best BDP album by a long shot!!

i dont think anyone's trying to come in here with gucci mane>nwa whiney

In Control Vol 1 is 88 though!

I'd actually count the EB&R album as the very definition of "too much filler to count despite patches of brilliance". It's def. one of those albums where "Hey, the first three songs are great!" (lots of xps)

No LL album that year. Hmmm. I thought for sure "Walking With a Panther" but no, 89. Kool Moe Dee didn't put out an lp in 88, either. It just seems like they did in my memory.

"By any Means Necessary > Illmatic"

I don't agree with this either.

Not counting the three I haven't heard, Illmatic is better than all of these except for Strictly Business.

I'd actually count the EB&R album as the very definition of "too much filler to count despite patches of brilliance".

Well, the filler is actually filler-plus and hence probably not even true filler. And then there's "Follow the Leader" which is more than just a patch of brilliance. More like communiqué from the gods.

I disagree with the first sentence (nothing after "Lyrics of Fury" really catches my attention) and heartily agree with the second.

err, second and third

not much love for kane huh? that shit is relentless. I'm congenitally averse to nation worship but i got a sinking feeling it's gonna walk. if i had more energy i'd def. mount a campaign for mc lyte's inclusion

The problem with Nation, which obviously a great album in its own right, is that two years later PE totally shat on it.

nwa, slick rick & kane are dopest here

NWA has a LOT of filler on that album.

The filler on Follow the Leader is some of its most interesting stuff, and definitely my most listened to record out of those listed above.

missing:

Mc Lyte - Lyte as a Rock
Biz Markie - Going Off
Run DMC - Tougher Than Leather
Stetsasonic - In Full Gear
Too Short - Life Is...Too Short
Jungle Brothers - Straight Out the Jungle

But for me, probably BAMN anyway.

-- Oilyrags, Thursday, 10 April 2008 17:44 (34 minutes ago)

I thought about the Jungle Brothers one but decided to leave it off as I never really hear much actual talk about it. I kind of wanted to discourage people from sleeping on the true contenders to look cool (like in the hip-hop producers poll a few weeks ago.) I have not heard most of the other albums you listed, and I certainly don't think that I've ever heard them mentioned in the same breath as the ones I included.

Stetsa and JBs are probably worthy contenders for best, but they're all certainly canonical (which is not the same as being great all the way through, of course.)

Personally I think that By All Means... is just filler plus the miracle that is "My Philosophy." But others seem to like it.

didn't biz markie's first album come out in 88? i remember that and Long Live The Kane being like buddy records, the cool guy and his goofy friend. it's called goin' off or something. but yeah, i kinda think this list covers the heavy hitters. you could argue that raisin' hell should be in there maybe, and I like that record a lot more now but at the time i remember thinking it was a real let down, like more of the same old shit from them when pe and jb's and shit were more interesting - even follow the leader seemed like more of a step forawrd than raising hell soundwise even though eric b & rakim weren't super new then either. anyway, i'm voting PE but it's a tough call. good year.

Ultramagnetic vs. BDK for me. Prob gonna vote Ultramagnetic.

Too Short - Life Is...Too Short

^^^^^^^up with most of the stuff in the first post easy

The filler on Follow the Leader is some of its most interesting stuff, and definitely my most listened to record out of those listed above.

if you felt like elaborating on this, I'd be eager to hear a defense of that album's filler - I always sorta wanted to love that album more than I do but it seems to run out of steam for me

Personally I think that By All Means... is just filler plus the miracle that is "My Philosophy." But others seem to like it.

-- ablaeser, Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:26 PM (58 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Oh man, if "Ya Slippin'" "Jimmy" "Illegal Business" "Teacher Teacher" "I'm Still Number One" and so on are filler, fill me up!

kane or PE

deej OTM of the stuff left off Too Short is the only one that feels like a stone classic all the way, to me at least...

i haven't heard that JBs record in ages though i remember liking the 2nd one a whole bunch

Straight Out the Jungle is really good, but there's definitely some filler. (I think their only bonafide classic is J Beez Wit The Remedy tho)

j beez w/the remedy and buhloone mindstate are the great weird native tongue records

don't read rock mags!

^^^^this

pe's influence was most strongly felt in the native tongues posse - de la, jungle bros, tribe called quest.

influence and evolution is more complex than this, but there's a fork in the road that hip hop approaches in '88 between thug life and righteous teaching. the thug life led to almost every major artist after that and the righteous teaching path led to a backpacker convention.

so what? this is about these albums.

well smoke some kill was left off this poll so the results are null and void

also like and what says, PE did have an influence on non-rap (and not just rock). insert 'big beat is dance music for rock fans' zing if necessary.

i don't think any of the people you named actually sound like PE anyway.

deej if it was just the hits off Straight Outta Compton I would have gone with Compton easy. But come on now. SOC just doesn't play as well front to back as Nation. Who really gives a shit about "Parental Discretion Iz Advised"? Not like it sucks ass or anything but that album peaks with, falls off hard after, "Gangsta Gangsta." And if we want to talk about legacies, we probably ought to include NWA's pioneering use of misogynist tropes/language (IIRC in '86 we heard more about ahem "skeezers") which continues to rankle old-ass cranks like myself.

I have a straight razor opinion about the electoral process in the USSA right about now. Since they've reduced politics into a game of sports highlights, people ask me these loaded questions, expecting some half baked safe ass answers. First of all, when folk ask 'what do I think about BARACK OBAMA?' - I dig the dude, although I think his track record has been conservative as hell for various reasons so he could get ahead in Uncle Sam's eyes. Cool, whatever... But I also retort that I think the United States needs 16 years of the man's intelligence, energy, and later as he develops a savvy and presidential skill while working in the public eye. To me Amerikkka is still about race like a black and white old TV set. There is no way one can avoid the race issue here in these image projected times. That's why I think that BARACK OBAMA can best serve the rebound image of the USA as the 'greatest Vice President' the country has ever had. Think about it. The VP position the past 8 years of bush and dick has been a position of power for all the wrong reasons. This is not 1936, every millisecond of presidential pressure will be felt by someone trying to lead the country the right way, not just the 'white' way. The way to lessen the pressure job is to have a powerful vice prez, cabinet, and to basically not give a damn. And today the VP position in Amerikkka can't be looked at as a second place job, rather a point guard position to the scorer. Or in CHI speak SCOTTIE PIPPEN.

This won't be Hillary or Barack , it will be Hillary AND Barack. They as individuals will try to show so much care and concern for their jobs if they get it that the intensity of the seat may be too much. Twice as much for Barack in trying to prove to everybody he can do it. Has anybody checked how the pressures mounted on Bill Clinton's appearance? And to son of a bush less because he doesn't give a squat. The rules were changed after the job killed FDR after 12 years of trying to fix a nation. That was way back when. These times in the smaller world every move is scrutinized. Lets say BARACK grows an afro or a beard, it will be a new relevant discussion on what's appropriate for the growth of black hair. Yeah, you cannot avoid the issue of racial difference here. Only work will absolve that. The pressure will take him out, he can't afford Crawford like retreats.

Hillary Clinton is hurling too much ego for her to appoint somebody like Barack as her VP ticket. She better realize an unprecedented team approach is her only chance. Taking ego and tradition out of this. Hillary and Barack will have to be more of a team than head and assistant to get this place somewhat back together. This team has to roll up the sleeves and drop the bucket and work. I hear people ask why would Barack settle for the second job? I say it's the wrong way to look at it. VP here has to be looked at as a lateral position. If Obama's president he will be tested internationally immediately. You don't think HUGO CHAVEZ is reaching out to brotherman? How about CASTRO if he's feelin his oats again. What's the middle east mess politic, his father's homeland continent. of Africa? I'm in France and they're watching the run offs like a game show with these crazy expectations. The republicans are the Bill Belicheks of politics, the axis of evil to do anything to steal a win, no matter who. At the end of the day they gonna make Mitt Romney look like the prettiest girl in drunk room at 4:44 am. He looks the part of the typical winner and loser Amerikkka has had.

Real talk is saying that investment in BARACK OBAMA is getting Amerikkka comfortable with him as a Vice President. This is the price. Hillary can still get strategy in the bed better that Barack can right now from a crew. Experience can be gained as Mr OBAMA roams free safety to deal better with issues and constituency
without the pressure. It can be a four year soapbox campaign to turn heads. There's so much clean up work to do BARACK OBAMA 2016 sounds like a grand idea. For those that think it's far away they have the simple, nimble mind of a mere consumer, not realizing that companies already are breaking out mid teens strategies for robots to follow. As President ,I dare not expect anything done quicker for black people, in fact we better look at it the same way we look at a black judge. Don't expect to be a priority here. It's a reason that I recently ditched African-American as a term for blackfolk in 2008. The title is too ambiguous. BARACK makes me cringe when I hear this come out of his mouth. He's clearly African American, father from Africa, mother from here. Black people here- we're systematically detached from Africa and increasingly Amerikkka, as I say many of us made to think ' We don't give a damn or know enough about AFRICA, and Amerikkka don't give a fu*k about us.' Yes the term African-American is a noble idea to keep hope alive as REV JESS JAX tells us, but in 2008 black may be the grip to hold on to the diaspora.

The illusion of true diversity has faked us into a final position of thinking the ability to be a equal consumer makes us equal Amerikkkans. NOT. There are people in Amerikkka that have and will have long wealth in this recession as we think that a well plastered entertainer or athlete symbolizes the American chance for all of us. I don't know about the next African American person, but 95% of my family is check to check cash poor. We can't look back past 70 years of anyone owning a home in the North. This illusion of diversity makes Amerikkka see many colors and shades of folk on commercials today while the production companies that get those 6-7 figure jobs remain 99% white. Yeah. So lets be real about this next phase of America. The fact remains that every single President of The United States has been a white male, but the even more glaring one is that the runner up has also been of the same ilk. BARACK OBAMA for 16 years yall.
But then as a black man whose been here almost half a century, based on the track record how do I really know a better Amerikkka is truly better for me? So I hear in the background 'keep hope alive....keep hope alive....keep hope alive....keep hope alive....keep hope alive....'

EVOLUTIONARY VS REVOLUTIONARY
So I get the feedback that DEF JAM will not replace the Presidential job JAY Z stepped down from. I ran into a lawyer that represents me with Universal, for my holdings, and songs etc. He said that these people are just business crunchers at best, I told him in the lobby in CANNES that those weasels couldn't do another business, that's why these lawyers hang around entertainment because they appear to be less dysfunctional. Here's my response to Universals announcement. ..and by the way I was ONLY concerned because it was DEF JAM, It's not that I was seeking anything else. Sht if you gonna be tossing around those positions giving it to folk with light resumes on diverse duty, then check my hand up. Well anyway...here's to the buzzards of business....

Chuck D's Statement to Not Filling the Position of DEF JAM President After JAY Z Stepped Down

"It's really disappointing that UNIVERSAL decided not to replace the vacated DEF JAM job. Its sort of expected, and a primary reason why the music business has collapsed. The sports world relies on a mix of business people, coaches, ex-players and players to further an organized growing path in what it does. It's why it does well and we remain fans. I'm embarrassed at how musicians and artists in other genres of music make us appear to be greed-infested, structureless idiots when it comes down to the organization of black music and culture.

And it's quite clear that these folks could care less. The same thing that happened to MOTOWN is DEF JAM's fate. In my opinion, the fact that 10 -15 individuals in the guise of hovering buzzards are given keys to the culture based on their alliances with these corporations, is a partial reason for the troubled condition it's in. Hence music, and especially this urban, black, whatever you wanna call it, is an incestuous inner circle of usual suspects that are financially trusted over black culture by a select 'other few.' It's evident that we are not the same people." Chuck D

I still get questioned on why I consider JAY Z the greatest MC up to his point. He embodied all the greats, developed his own style, made it work, and was later fearless and flawless in exhibiting this skill of song in front of any crowd. This is no knock against who I consider the most feared, yet respected, embodiment of a MC , Blastmaster KRS-ONE. No knock against who I consider the most skilled; BIG DADDY KANE, the wittiest KOOL MOE DEE, the most powerful MELLE MEL, and the most tenured LL COOL J, or the cleverest MR ICE CUBE. MOE DEE has a book about this so maybe yall should read it. There's a difference between evolutionary and revolutionary. For example RAKIM is clearly revolutionary as with KRS ONE . DE LA SOUL is revolutionary, TRIBE CALLED QUEST evolutionary. MELLE MEL revolutionary, LL evolutionary. We can go on. Certain MCS set a original path that they couldn't exploit themselves as someone riding behind their path.

But let me tell you about THIS brother...beyond all amazing emcees I've heard is someone I'm proud to know and work with, and hopefully you will witness as well. J LEE from the HEET mob in KANSAS CITY is the most awesome delivery emcee yet. He is simply a sensai of rap. Peep heet mob led by the amazing J LEE and beats by VIC HUNT aka Daheetius. Sht J LEE and his crew can get anybody scared....

http://www.beyond.fm/band_music.asp?id=16

JLEE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nfDprtEWZA

MUSIC
I have to be honest I'm not hearing much of anything as of now. Nothing. I think when you have a gang of evolutionary things happening, it takes time for something truly revolutionary to pop out. It's why peeping MYSPACE and iLIKE pages may be the place to hear some new sht.

LL and RUN
LL is my man as well as RUN but I've been totally confused by some recent decisions they've both made recently. LL has made some records recently be it for mixtape or next album that in my honest opinion has trekked backwards for a near 40 year old man with almost grown children. Trying to make Queens clubbangers is one thing, but he's reaching into inferior territory with wack N-word laden choruses and spray on street rough-cred.
What's Your Hood Like and another called Queens. Cmon, L is way above that. Fu*k a mixtape and its appeal if it brings down everything you built over the last 25 years. Reach for higher ground L because you can touch it and then bring some integrity down to these streets. They expect that from you.

RUN on the other hand has said he's retired RUN-DMC because there's no longer JMJ. It's his excuse for not touring with DMC. Sad. Talking to RUN last year he said GRANDMASTER FLASH would be a great mix, as well as my suggestion of DJ HURRICANE whose HOLLIS CREW, AFROS, BEASTIE BOYS, DAVY DMX , connection makes him a no brainer. It's just that CANE don't take no crap. But he was truly JMJ's man and would stand the legacy proud. But RUN said it was over. But through the process he released a fantastic solo album called DISTORTION a couple years back, and now is going out on the road to pair up with KID ROCK. Cmon RUN-DMC just study the career of SAM and DAVE and put the small sht to the side. I'd pay to see RUN-DMC in a minute, in fact drive their damn tour bus if need be. It's a pact FLAV and I made long ago-, no matter what road we take, the group is greater than both of us and we will find time

DMC'S VOICE
After D and I participated in the launch of BEYOND.FM ( joined by FLAV in Vegas) I was telling DJ JOHNNY 'JUICE' ROSADO that his workouts are returning the voice back to raps 'KING OF ROCK'. It's getting stronger by the day, as I was emceeing next to D in a medley of classic and new cuts he was doing.

BOBBY FISHER
When he passed I saw all kinds of convoluted news reports about his eccentric directions and life. I saw news reports grasp and struggle with his alleged Anti Semitism and anti Americanism. Well there's an answer for the latter. The US snatched and forbid him 3.5 million dollars that he made in the early 90's in a BORIS SPASSKY rematch in sanctioned Belgrade. I'd be hot too. Like the USSA's fingers ain't meddled in enough pots. I can't stand these border principles. Asking for permission and having passports makes it definitely NOT a free country or world.
For the Anti-Semitism part, they said his mother was Jewish, so he was half Jewish. I don't understand. If there was a black person lets say.... Clarence Uncle THOMAS passing bills that in essence handicapped poor black folk, would the press say he's anti-black while being black, or that was just the JOB?

Nutty Bobby Fisher was just plain crazy then, leave at that. Lets say his rants made it very difficult and sticky for his fellow Jewish constituents, like many black folk who speak contrary to the needs of black people,but get lauded and applauded in the western media as heroes for a an American liberal understanding. Sht, the confusing wild web of racism peeks its ugly head from ALL angles if you care to notice.

FRANCE
Just got back from MIDEMnet in CANNES FRANCE. The work and touring PE did last year has had a resonating effect in France. I swear that Paris is as a black city like Harlem or even the ATL. Tell the world. PE had established presence in legendary standing here by simply staying the course in revolutionary outlook. This place is also watching every second of the primaries. The expectation of the earth is hinging on this electoral balance. About MIDEMnet before it used to be 15-20% of the MIDEM convention, the largest international music convention on the planet. The remaining 80% would market, barter, and trade the traditional physical music business. MIDEMnet covered the digital delivery aspect with online, mobile, and computer hardware representatives and CEOs finding, and paving new roads for music related entertainment. This year I keynoted on a panel named 'Fans Business-They Care, How Can They Help You?' ALI PARTOVI from iLIKE , Bryan Perez, from Live Nation, Fabrice Sergent from Cellfish Media, and Johan Vosmeijer from Sellaband. Especially ALI from iLike spoke of the explosive viral attractiveness of iLike. Try it. Ever since Facebook adapted it as their multimedia widgetry , it's become MYSPACE plus.

Had to jet out after two days to get back, but headed back to FRANCE next week to perform with MR ARCHIE SHEPP with a contingent of SLAMjamz Artists, KYLE JASON, JAHI, BRIAN HARDGROOVE, and DJ LORD plus yours truly to come up with a dynamic improv. Two weeks back to back dealing with CHARLES DE GAULLE Airport is much. Usually I drive in France, I don't know exactly as I didn't drive in NICE -CANNES this time because I was in and out. BTW I'll miss the entire SUPER BOWL while I head again to Europe. When I land I'll know the winner.

GERMS , COVER YOUR FACE.
In EUROPE there is a terrible habit of people not covering their mouths when they sneeze and cough. Coupled with a general rudeness from older EUROs especially if you come across them as a person of color. On the plane, tight azz AIR FRANCE I was squeezing by this coughing person in the aisle seat. He was older, coughing and sort of tired and sick and wasn't really trying to move so I had to limbo around and climb over him. I sorta fell into this 90 year old woman who had a blindfold over her eyes sleeping. She woke up and punched me in the back. Yo , I really could NOT stop laughing after she did that. And she had every right after I fell on her side.

HOCKEY
I just asked how the American sports media says very little of nothing about hockey fights while they'll say that when the brother-laden NBA has a fight it's considered 'disgusting' and 'deplorable in the words and tone of BILL WALTON. I was talking about this with MIKE TILLERY. It's not that I want to see brothers fight, but I don't wanna hear about how Canadians are another culture entirely.

PASSPORT
Let me tell you something. Before this presidential election becomes a 'selection' black folk better get passports. Yes I do realize this will be a challenge to Homeland security if a million folks bum rushed all of a sudden. Last year the services were shut down. Still there's no reason NOT to get one because with the failing economy this place may come up with all types of reasons to say you can't leave.

ILLEGAL Immigrants
I heard some idiot on the radio say the way to handle the illegal immigrant situation is to have citizens call them out and charge them with felonies. This person was a black talk show DJ. Shows you he can't spell diaspora. The border policy is so archaic it's a step away from forts. The nerve of the damn pilgrims who 'discover' a land. Build a fort to protect them from natives. Then venture out and maim the natives for 3000 miles to the west. Come up with some cock-laden flag, rhetoric, and anthem and name the states and streets from what they maimed. And got the nerve to say who deserves to be here. Please save that crap for FOOLS.

HEATH LEDGER
Sorry I didn't even know who this dude was....shows you either how much I know or how much I care about the movie industry. I heard he was talented yet not happy. My advice is to give your position to those that are next in line. Oops I guess he did, but it didn't have to be the death option. Couldn't he spell s-a-b-a-t-t-i-c-a-l?

FAMOUS TO BE FAMOUS
But at least that dude had talent. I don't understand this famous to be famous sht. Cmon real talented people are struggling to get noticed, while assholes are spread over the media for absolutely NO reason.

FAKE IT UNTIL YOU MAKE IT (VEGAS)
Upon performing with DMC and FLAV in VEGAS, I was taken aback by how the crowd was mimicking every club video the past 12 years. They in my kid's vernacular looked mad 'fake'. Like they sprayed on a club state of being. It seemed like they had to move to the music and the music was not moving them. To me it's the same feeling as the last years of disco. How many years can peeps keep it moving to the same beats? Something has to be new on the horizon. FAKE has been in style a bit too long... Speaking of fake, 90% of all rappers who claim to be a roughneck gangster is borderline fake. Now I know that this is the entertainment biz, and behooves an acting mode, but damn. I'd like to see the rap world really get with the heart of the people.

We need some JOHNNY CASH type cats to get true, or to be made true by testing themselves in front of a crowd that knows well. Too long the thrill of the crime-rhyme has been pushed as fascination to school kids, and the general public as the representative of hip hop. I challenge cats to take it all the way to their real constituency and fan base. To not get locked up short term for press reasons. The cats serving real time are COOL C, STEADY B out of PHILLY, and JAY DEE from the LENCH MOB in LA, all those brothers I know and are tragic cases we ALL need to know about. They would have a whole different thing to tell the public than most of the CRACK rappers we hear on modern urban radio, TV, and especially mixtapes. Real talk means to protect the people and lead them not just lead them into consumption.

WHAT DOES WHAT I GOT GOT TO DO WITH GETTIN?
Last note on me trying to get that DEF JAM gig, I was reading all the responses and I appreciate the public's approval of your fellow enemy. 90%, damn I can see that the people are not blind. But I wasn't twisted I knew this wasn't a public office so the people really don't matter unless they're consumers of the highest degree. When it comes to art nowadays and especially music, people want to integrate their participation into the things they dig. Why would people be fans of a baseball team for 100 years, or there's waiting lists for the NY football GIANTS over 4-5 generations. Its more than just good product, there's interactive consideration and partial participation. The sports world works on that.
Anyway the point is that the criteria of the record company head is based on what? I saw on the blogs wondering and basing me on how rich or lack of I was. Let me tell you this. If my position of anything is based on showing off what I have and exposing my personal life, I'll never get anything because you will never hear or see me say where I live. What I purchased. The name of family members. My account. My net worth. If it was up to me my government slave name wouldn't be out there. The answer is that it ain't nobody's business. Just because the masses are trained to connect the collection of MTV cribs, pimped rides, famous to be famous do nothing social idiots, jewelry laden, yacht ridin', caviar and champagne guzzling VIP fools, doesn't mean you'll get it from me.

FAT AND LAZY DJS
Lastly the reason that the music can't levitate is because we have some short termed neglect as far as the level of mobile, club, and especially radio DJs who are supposed to evaluate all the records that come out today. A close source told me his conversations with a radio person had said unless a product came from a major brand it was tossed. The same thing with digital mp3s sent. Today I would think that DJs couldn't have it any easier. So what they gotta go through 250 songs a week as opposed to 50 twelve inch records every two weeks from about five years ago. Like what else can they be doing with their time? I came from a high school track meet where they assembled over a thousand athletes in an armory seamlessly to compete in a myriad of events. Now a DJ can't sit in one place and listen to new music for 3-4 hours in a week. There are 24 hours in a day. Most people have mundane jobs that keep them working 8 hours for 5 days a week. And a DJ is swamped? No excuse, especially for the DJs too big to work.
And they're big for a reason. The DINER Cards in lieu of airplay, web, or satellite play have them too bloated, too lazy, and a detriment to the organization of an art form I always considered the parallel of sport. Every statistic is kept to the T in sport, people work around the clock, library systems record every print, audio, and visual in their banks, even retail is detailed in order to sell. And you mean to tell me that a DJ in 2008, on Serrato who no longer or never lifted a crate of vinyl, can't listen to an independent artist or check their MYSPACE page because they consider it a task? Give me a break. This disease of ease has also spread to journalists who claim they can't balance their time. Give me a break. Again it's another reason why the movie and sports businesses whip music's ass, and make tall submit to the standard those industries set.

Out - and may the NEW YORK football GIANTS fold them axis of evil Patriots

WORD UP

luriqua's senior thesis

how many groups actually sounded like pe? people want to know what influence pe had at the time - their influence was one of style, outlook, attitude. righteousness really wasn't a top 10 concern for rappers at the time. it was putdowns and check out my kicks.

xpost

mckaine with the QUEEN MOVE

righteousness was totally a top 10 concern at the time and one reason i'm glad it came and went is cuz the shit got tired as fuck super fucking quick. even pe's shit got pretty fucking old, by apocalypse 91 (which still sounds great) they're incredibly over the top unbearably preachy at points, 'don't drink - don't wear nikes - don't say nigga', it's no fucking wonder the chronic won nevermind that by 91 the pe sound had kinda run its course. you don't hear whodini fans bitching about how hip-hop had a choice between them and criminal minded or something and woah to that fork in the road etc. no, history moves on, music (ESP hip-hop ESP this early in its development) moves on and either somehow you stay 'relevant' and adapt or you get left behind in yr moment.

i never got why chuck didnt stick around and play elder statesman with guest verses and shit.... seems like anybody would wanna get blessed with him even if they were on some party shit but he was too self-righteous to crew with actually dope rappers in the 90s and got stuck out with hip-hop artists who didnt hurt the black community like dj z-trip

balls you are one astute motherfucker

think about how bun and face and 8ball get on every new release in the south, why isnt chuck rapping with like lupe and cham and shit

cause Lupe would go FUCK NAH I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO CHUCK D IS I LIKE THAT IGNORANT SHOOT EM UP SOUTHERN SHIT

* 1988: "Funny Vibe" (from the Living Colour album Vivid)
* 1990: "Endangered Species (Tales From The Darkside)" (from the Ice Cube album AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted)
* 1990: "Kool Thing" (from the Sonic Youth album Goo)
* 1991: "Bring The Noise" (from the Anthrax album Attack of the Killer B's)
* 1991: "Rise N Shine" (from the Kool Moe Dee album Funke, Funke Wisdom)
* 1994: "Rumbo N Da Jungo" (from the Street Fighter Soundtrack)
* 1995: "Destroy All Masters" (from One Million Strong)
* 1995: "It's The Pride" (from Pump Ya Fist)
* 2001: "Elvis Killed Kennedy" (from the Vanilla Ice album Bi-Polar)
* 2004: "Hot Gossip" (with the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion)
* 2005: "Bin Laden" (Immortal Technique feat. KRS-One and DJ Green Lantern)
* 2005: "Shock And Awe" DJ Z-Trip album Shifting Gears)
* 2007: "Flashlight Fight" (from the The Go! Team album Proof of Youth)

Cuz no one wants to hear from an old bitter anti-semite... I voted for Rick The Ruler

don't think anyone's disputing why PE 'lost' and their moment ended -- tho i dunno if marley marl had it any easier? for different reasons i guess -- unless you're interested in winner's history & reputation-mongering, it doesn't have much bearing on the quality of the records they made 1987-90.

what a track record! I was about to bring up "endangered species" as chuck's best guest spot ever.

xp

Chuck is still mad that he lost out the spot on "Radio Song" to KRS.

* 2001: "Elvis Killed Kennedy" (from the Vanilla Ice album Bi-Polar)

Wait what?

ethan you gotta remember that chuck d. was already kinda on the old end of the scale at the time pe were emerging as is and that by the early 90s there seemed a real divide - geographic, plus between those golden age guys and who came after. plus pe already were seeming a lil corny and they were alot more concerned w/ branching out to the altrock audience/dollars (touring w/ sisters of mercy, touring w/ u2, video and song w/ anthrax) than w/ their base. they didn't get blowback like say krs-one did for recording w/ rem but still it was classic crossover moves and they suffered 'sellout/gone pop' accusations (actually i can remember this circa fear of a black planet and i can really remember pe fans i knew wondering why they'd let ice cube on one of their and n.w.a. fans seeing cube working w/ pe was proof he'd gone soft w/ boyz n the hood just confirmation). and then they released muse sick n hour mess age and story over that the pe that's been around for nearly 15 years. i can remember a ward sutton comic around the time of 'he got game' called 'they got lame'.

at the time there was all that 'the judgment night soundtrack is the future of music' and pe totally totally bought that line hard, still are really.

1986 - Breakbeat Lenny releases Ultimate Breaks and Beats

August 1987 - Emu's SP1200 sampler comes out

Late 1987 - Marley Marl ditches Shan's keyboards and chops UB&B in the 1200

Immediately after, PE follows the sound (Rebel and Bring the Noise were both 1987), but ups the ante ten fold (not sampling UB&B, but digging, and layering outside of the 1200).

Full album follows in early 1988.

Marley more or less keeps sampling single UB&B songs per track.

This is what made 1988 PE's year.

matos if you still read ilx and you read this thread scan them old spins circa 89-90-91 there was a hip-hop state of the union one where i seem to recall some real 'man o man what are gonna do about n.w.a.' worry and there was some dialogue between hank shocklee and paul simon circa rhythm of the saints that i'm just curious to look at again.

mckaine with the QUEEN MOVE

-- M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 15 April 2008 16:56 (38 minutes ago) Link

lol'd at this

why isnt chuck rapping with like lupe and cham and shit

-- and what, Tuesday, April 15, 2008 12:07 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

bun is kind of way past this point, but there weren't many music things that got me more excited last year than slick rick spitting that verse on that cham song

but like even bun getting on that dizzee album

bun will rap on any motherfucking thing

everyone's talk about the bomb squad's CRAZY CONFRONTATIONAL WALL OF SOUND BEATS was always a little more heated than the record actually deserves

yeah after growing up reading about pe's WALL OF SOUND it was pretty disappointing when i finally got to hear nation/planet and it just sounded like the stetsasonic i'd already heard

bit more aggressive than stetsasonic, no?

i guess these things are partly about what you hear first, especially if that makes a big impact on you.

yeah definitely

Hearing Stetsasonic before Public Enemy is kind of....odd.

prince paul is the only wayhow i can figure

yeah i didn't know who i was hearing at the time, it was just a tape i had, then oilyrags made me a cd-r w/stetsasonic on em and i was like 'oh shit THIS is what i've been listening to since i was 16"

RAPPERS STEPPIN TO ME
THEY WANNA GET SOME
BUT IM THE KANE SO YO
YOU KNOW THE OUTCOME

another victory
they can't get with me
so pick a B.C. date 'cause your history

hoos, when stet sampled early on, they too sampled one song from UB&B per track generally (Funky Penguin = Sally, Expansions = Talkin' Jazz, etc.)

Marl (and maybe EPMD) kinda beat everyone to the punch on that UB&B/1200 formula, before Stet. Only PE went beyond it during the first string of dudes. Well beyond it.

Paul with De La, Dre with Eazy Duz It (and Straight Outta Compton later) and Dust Bros with Paul's Boutique were the students of Hank Shocklee's PE technique within the next year or two.

For the 1988 days of producers hanging around the store for breaks and talking about the repercussions of UB&B, and to see the changing of the guard in action (as Mantronix is still vaguely in the picture during this piece):

http://www.globaldarkness.com/articles/big_steal.htm

i love hip-hop

didnt see THAT one coming

great piece pw!

yeah after growing up reading about pe's WALL OF SOUND it was pretty disappointing when i finally got to hear nation/planet and it just sounded like the stetsasonic i'd already heard

Oh come on! You seriously thought something like "Eh. This is as crazy confrontational as (um) Stetsasonic" upon first hearing PE? Seriously??

Look, I admit that Nation no longer sounds as speedy as it did in 1988. But I just heard it again about an hour ago and "CRAZY CONFRONTATIONAL WALL OF SOUND BEATS" definitely does NOT overdo it.

So I want to know which Stetsasonic track matches (surpasses?) the CRAZY CONFRONTATIONAL WALL OF SOUND BEATS of "Night of the Living Baseheads." Hell, I want to know ANY rap more crazy confrontational than "Lost at Birth."

plus pe already were seeming a lil corny and they were alot more concerned w/ branching out to the altrock audience/dollars (touring w/ sisters of mercy, touring w/ u2, video and song w/ anthrax) than w/ their base.

But the altrock audience was their base at least as early as Nation. Part of it anyway. A significant part, though. And yeah, I recall those corny/gone pop/soft arguments and they were preposterous. OK fine, they sold out to the altrock audience (only they didn't). But again, "Lost at Birth" or even Muse Sick-N-Hour Mess Age - corny? soft? and despite several hits, gone pop? Riiiight.

at the time there was all that 'the judgment night soundtrack is the future of music' and pe totally totally bought that line hard, still are really.

Well, it was the future (or rather, a future). But more in nu-metal (which had a fair amount of PE in it) than rap.

scan them old spins circa 89-90-91

I have most of these so I'll look through this weekend.

Oh come on! You seriously thought something like "Eh. This is as crazy confrontational as (um) Stetsasonic" upon first hearing PE? Seriously??

That's just my point though: it was noisy and cutup, but I didn't find it (Stet or PE) all that confrontational at all. Maybe it's cause I grew up on post-PE stuff that had internalized the confrontational aspect, but I just didn't/don't hear it.

but I just didn't/don't hear it.

Let me re-phrase that: I didn't hear it then, but I understand PE's context more these days and understand why they were heard as confrontational at the time.

Ah ok I get it now. Still very bizarre, though.

Maaaaaaaaaaaan! If I'd known you hadn't heard PE (such a thing hardly seems possible - Stet has kind of a 'forgotten gem' status at this point) I would have def. given you the time.

Also, I should point out that the disc I gave Von Hoosenstien with Stet also had Son of Bazerk, so there was a nice dose of circa-Fear of a Black Planet Bomb Squad noise on that little nugget, which may also have also affected his experience.

Oh nah man I was saying I 'accidentally' heard Stet before you hooked me up w/them, and that when I heard PE it was kinda eh. It wasn't until you gave me the CD-R that I knew I'd been hearing Stet all these years on this tape I had.

ok, that makes a lot more sense.

plus pe already were seeming a lil corny and they were alot more concerned w/ branching out to the altrock audience/dollars (touring w/ sisters of mercy, touring w/ u2, video and song w/ anthrax) than w/ their base.

lest we forget Anthrax's I'm the Man (Def Uncensored Version) was released in 1987, prompting Chuck's line in Bring the Noise, and later, their collab.

this was the song all my rock friends used to try to convince me to stop listening to that "jungle bunny music" i liked.

For those who want to take a stab at Run-DMC's Rock Box, check the spyder d interview with Larry Smith:

http://www.spydomusic.com/interviewmp3.html

(tough to hear larry's responses, but...)

it really was bambattaa's "master of records" selection that brought rock fully into the mix, and fab 5 freddy who took it to the punk/downtown scene via TV Party and such back in 1980/1981.