Metaquestion: Is ILM Getting Ruder?

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Reading 4 days worth of postings in a row and it struck me that ILM seems a bit...sharper than it used to be. The inevitable consequence of a vibrant range of opinions, or people being rude? Any thoughts, anyone?

Note that I'm not saying the shift in tone is a bad or good thing.

― Tom, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Debate has certainly hotted up, perhaps because in the last week some fantastic and controversial questions have been asked. the irony and pomo threads go to the heart of what pop is/isn't about nowadays, and everyone has an opinion. Indie beyond the NME is another fascinating and fruitful question.. ILM is getting more and more compulsive, a marked improvement in my opinion. There's no need to be rude, but it's great that people care enough to get emotional..

― Pete Dyson, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think that this is partially as a result of a misguided attempt at consensus. People seem more shocked by dissenting opinions, which is illogical because of course as more people arrive more opinions *will* dissent.

As a solution, I propose that ILM concentrate on the REALLY BIG QUESTIONS. Such as:

1) Is Geordie Racer in fact a bot? But, like, in a good way?

2) How many critical theorists' egos could we fit on the head of a pin?

3) Is 'porno' a no no?

― Tim, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Community's sort of defined by what you can argue about sharply yet safely, isn't it? We can have fun trading insults about N'Sync and/or Robots in Disguise, because everyone assumes everyone else is more or less on the same page — [x] is somewhat serious, [y] somewhat flippant, all more or less informed — but if we move offcamp, then a certain significant fear factor (not least about who gets to count as "informed", who judges, who'll be judged) kicks in. I love-love-love the hardball of pop squabble (it's what I wanted to ignite at Wire when editor, in re the avant garde and jazz — tho I pretty much failed, I think — and I got addicted to ILM when I came across it because it's something I miss in my life), but for all this, I'm actually quite ambivalent about the attainment of "sharpness" per se. For example, I think that I think the fun in our squabbling is actually superior, intellect-wise, to the kind of toxic-pompous "sharpness" you get in propomo-nopomo debate in the big old outside/grown-up world: by comparison, our ("our") flip civility is (on the whole) a superior achievement. If ILM were a rockband, we'd make better records than Big Old Outside Propomo-Nopomo do: cuz our polyamorous gangbang is WAY more creatively set up.

But also way more fragile: esp. if only held together by the etiquette of emoticons. ]:-<

― mark s, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

PASSION is good , RUDENESS is rash' Robin looks like Radar from M*A*S*H

― Geordie 'I is well vibrant with Ethan' Racer, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is it getting "sharper" though? Maybe in the po-mo thread, but every discussion about postmodernism, critical theory, etc. seems to get a bit rude, which is one of the reasons I didn't contribute. It's strictly music and footie discussions for me on the Net :)

I'm still amazed that on ILM slagging off your favorite band doesn't automatically lead to a flame war. Which is a good thing I think.

― Omar, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well I'm not naming names but I think what's happened is that we have now been going long and large enough that certain prominent posters have begun to get 'reputations' in the eyes of other prominent posters and those reputations are what gets referred to rather than specific opinions.

But I agree that ILM is really really interesting now. As I've found this morning to my cost, work-wise....

― Tom, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Eek, it worries me that someone is asking if this board is getting rude, right about the same time I start posting compulsively, coz I oft get told on other forums that I'm rude. To some people, this is synonymous with opinionated.

I see loads of disagreements in *opinion* which I think is a Very Good Thing, but very rarely personal disagreements with people (which would clearly be a bad thing).

So long as it doesn't get personal (which it doesn't seem to be getting) I think the more debate and the wider variety of opinions the better. So long as no one slags off the Lollies again, or I'll start whumping arses!

― kate the saint, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Let's face it: I rule, you all suck! Just kidding! Well, I hope it has nothing to do with me! I know I can be annoying, but I mean well. Honestly! (How many exclamation points should a person really use in one post?!)... !

― , Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I often jump to conclusions - when I read the Robert Wyatt thread I saw the words 'Wheelchair rock' and was horrified until I thought of how Otis was using it. I used to work with bairns with muscular dystrophy and the memories are raw.I misunderstood Ethan the other day and got shirty.Sometimes we have to read between the lines or something. But I think rudeness for rudeness sake is crap - my post above was to show how unfunny it can become - the Tindersticks site members room had to change because of this sort of behaviour. I think this site is better because of the exploration of ideas but as I'm a recent convert I can't comment on the past discussions. I don't know enough about the theory side of things but I Love Music - this site has opened up lots to think about. The more you lot post bizarre theories about the acceptance of Missy Elliott(despite the shit lyrics) or whether finding Celeste cute is dodgy the better - if rudeness is the new paradigm ( ! ) I'm off but vibrant is good. I find it funny how you 're all smart over slagging the NME then go an' buy it again each week like the lottery - am I being rude ?

― Anne Robinson or Chris Tarrant ?, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

We read the NME online silly. At least I *hope* nobody actually buys it weekly.

In a neat bit of reverse psychology - damn those marketing men and their appeal to my liberal guilt - I buy it if a black person is on the cover sometimes because of course the NME famously claims its sales tumble every time such a horse-scaring event occurs.

― Tom, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I would chin you for calling me silly but I have just found out Game Theory are a band so you're dead right. . Posh was better looking before - even with the curtains.

― Geordie always sat at the back of the class, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

the worst rudeness happened on that magnetic fields thread that started off with the question "has he ever written a bad lyric" but quickly got swamped with people asking if he'd ever written a good one. heh heh. So, as i see it, and discounting Killing Joke as a freak occurence here are the top insult-provoking subjects - anyone care to comment why? 1. Magnetic Fields 2. Pomo/Irony 3. Robbie Williams 4. Belle and Sebastian 5. Spacemen 3

― Peter, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Metaanswer: It's both vibrant opinions and rudeness. I make no secret when I talk to you about this, Tom, that I stop reading some very interesting threads just because the "sharpness" gets a bit ridiculous, someone cracks a joke that someone else takes as serious and it goes on from there. Nor is it much of a secret that there have been a few threads that seemed to be started with the specific intention of fucking people off. But by and large, I think this place is less "sharp" than, say, a.m.a...so it's not necessarily a bad thing.

As to the top 5 "sharp" topics: 1. Magnetic Fields are controversial just as Radiohead would've been two years prior because everyone and their bloody brother in the press talks about how WONDERFUL and FANTASTIC they are, and if you don't like them, you just want to kick Stephin Merrit in the nuts, despite the fact that it's really not his fault. However, if you do agree with the press, people who dislike it irritate you because inevitably the criticism comes down to "overrated". Like I said, go look up Radiohead on DejaNews, same thing. 2. Irony...well, because people who like things ironically don't like to be told that other people think that's stupid, and vice versa. 3. I have no idea why Robbie Williams brings up such vitriol. He's great. 4. Belle and Sebastian have a reputation of having irritating fans. Whether it's true or not, it's brought into threads unfairly. 5. SPACEMEN 3?! Someone is bloody talking about Spacemen 3??? Where? :)

― Ally, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Interesting question Peter. I agree with Ally on Magnetic Fields. Robbie Williams seems a smug bastard so the knives come out. Rudeness in re. of B&S evolves around a) a perceived irritating quality in Murdoch's voice + lyrics that seem too clever b) B&S fans are beautiful, intelligent, nice people and that brings out jealous feelings ;). Now why anyone would say something rude about Spacemen 3 is beyond me :). And the most thorny issue, PoMo: it's a subject that has a lot of implications in regards of how you perceive the world, life and existence, so a lot is at stake there. Still I don't know why some people have to be so rude in their anti-pomo stance (it doesn't seem that way the other way around, although I could be projecting my own feelings here).

― Omar, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Spacemen3 causing arguments? Oh, don't be silly. Just cause I might get a wee bit irrational and start spouting about the UTTER AND IRREVOCABLE BEAUTY BEYOND ALL SENSE AND REASON OF MY DEAD HUSBAND AKA SONIC BOOM AKA THE PROPHET PETE KEMBER WHO SHALL RETURN TO SAVE US ALL AND I'LL WHUMP YOUR ARSE IF YOU DISAGREE does not mean that I'm flaming anyone. I mean, honestly.

However, if you go bringing up Belle and Suckasstian in a forum like this, you get everything you deserve.

― kate the saint, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think the point wasnt people being rude to bands, which is great, but being rude to other people because they don't like bands.

― Tom, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is "Robin" supposed to be me, Geordie?

Oh, I think ILM is better and more interesting than ever.

― Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 17 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

This is likely to be off topic, but this is the best question to suit my answer...

I love the threads where DJ Martian posts a huge well-researched reply (or maybe it's all in his/her head) with a zillion links, and then Robin Carmody comes in with a short snappy one - especially the one where he "accused" DJ Martian of being an imperialist (just re the threads).

― youn, Wednesday, 18 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

So I read the review on Elidor, bought the album without further thought, stuck it on at me mates house straight away and musta gone back a track - 'Anything' flooded the room to all my friends amusement.

― Geordie 'fesses all, Wednesday, 18 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Good Lord, we're only 280 or so posts away from the 10,000th message!

― Tom, Wednesday, 18 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I think when you get to people referring to themselves as "Old School" is when you have a problem. I don't think it has happened here. I hope it doesn't. Old School is a term often used by established readers of bulletin boards, chat rooms etc,...and infers a certain level of hostility toward new comers...I see it as a death- knell for many virtual communities, a sort of computerised group think.

― james edmund L, Wednesday, 18 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well it's only been going 8 months, if that.

If a newbies/veterans dialectic really starts developing I'll delete the forum, have no fear of that. Temporary, autonomous etc. etc.

― Tom, Wednesday, 18 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Oi, Omar. Yeah, you. I don't think Murdoch's lyrics 'seem too clever'. Wanna make something out of it?

I think that Tom E has made, once or twice, the essential point: that saying unkind things about bands or records that people like or dislike is rather different from flinging personal abuse (of whatever kind) at people who contribute to the forum.

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 18 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

what about if the abuse is directed towards for instance, Momus? he seems to fill both categories, does he not? where do we stand, Pinefox? help us! :-)

― Peter, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Geordie: which album did you buy straight away after reading the review on Elidor?

― Robin Carmody, Saturday, 21 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Jay Z (yes, you did warn us, mustabin the red on black )- love you working thru your thoughts on all things 'vicarious' - just bought the damn fine Skitz album .Would give beaucoup props to your site but Im not Mr Popularwellregardednosiree so it wouldn't dooyas any fayvaz !

― Reppin Robin, Saturday, 21 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Cheers for the kind words. I think Elidor's in a curious phase at the moment because when I update it I'm more pleased with what comes out than I've ever been before, but for various reasons I manage to get less out than I used to. Ah well, maybe quality's better than quantity.

And the Skitz album is indeed awesome. It's next up on the site, actually.

― Robin Carmody, Saturday, 21 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Getting ruder? It is now.

― the pinefox, Thursday, 26 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yeah, gotta agree, finally :( It goes like this I think, dismissing one band: everybody acts cool "ha mate, how can you not like Loveless? I'll get you back on the Weller thread!" All good fun. Dismissing a whole genre: the knives come out. Not without reason I might add.

― Omar, Thursday, 26 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But with someone so obviously playing a game with people to feed his ego, why play along?

― Nicole, Thursday, 26 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Because I am a narrow minded egotistical moron

― Geordie Robot, Thursday, 26 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two weeks pass...

but obviously not as bigoted as some of the contributors to the BJoel and CLove threads - really people c'mon

― geordie racer, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

ILM getting ruder? of course not you stupid little shit! :)

― Nick Greenfield, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I have had a serious rethink on the Billy Joel thread and probably took my abuse of Billy Joel a little too far. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously but I can see now how it could be offensive. So if any of y'all were offended, sorry...

― Nicole, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

As somebody who may well have written a nominee for the "Rudest Post Ever" ILM award, I feel pretty guilty about it. I think the rudeness comes and goes in waves - the posts and discussions get pretty interesting and deep, and then some wacko comes along and just goes off with some ridiculous flaming. After a while, everybody gets disgusted with the tone and things calm down again. It seems to me that right now, things are really divided - there are a lot of really interesting posts and a lot of outright flame wars. But just be happy it's not Bitchpork, which having read recently, I can safely accuse of being almost completely free of any intelligent life.

― Dave M., Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I haven't noticed too many outbursts of flaming besides those revolving around that Paul/Poptones/doompatrol dude, as well as a certain person systematically attacking a certain other person.

― Patrick, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Hey, person A's attacks on person F, er. I mean person B, are by far some of the most accessable entertainment around, and always good for a few laffs.

― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, they can liven up a slow day, so I suppose anyone who disagrees must truly be a, er, 'cockfarmer'.

Alright, I'll admit it, i was just looking for an excuse to use the word 'cockfarmer'. And again!

― DG, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You're a total cockfarmer if you have to look for excuses to say cockfarmer.

Me and Patrick totally worked this out, yo. He just needed some explanation. Now we're all good.

― Ally, Thursday, 17 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Who rattled your cage, you cockfarmer? :)

― DG, Saturday, 19 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Don't call me a cockfarmer, cockfarmer!!!!!

Do you like my comedy exclamation points? I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Ally, Saturday, 19 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

YoU $uX!!!!!!!! L@MeR!!!!!!! BiLl GaTeZ $uX!!!!!!!! etc etc

― DG, Saturday, 19 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Is it getting ruder? Yeah, I'd say so.

― scott p., Wednesday, 23 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Do you like my comedy exclamation points? I do!!!!!!!

I do too!!!!!! But not as much as I like my comedy question marks!!!!

What d'you think?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿

x0x0

― Norman Fay, Friday, 25 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

That was the most coolest thing ever.

I think a better question now, since we all know ILM is full of rude cockfarmers, is "Is ILM Getting Way Sillier?"

― Ally, Friday, 25 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Yes.

― Robin Carmody, Friday, 25 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

DOES ANYONE IN THIS BITCH LIKE SILLY

ILM: Cash Cow or Evil Bitch?

― Sterling Clover, Saturday, 26 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

a better question now might be 'has ilm been suspiciously abandoned by all of the original posters?'

― ethan, Saturday, 26 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Care to name some examples? Asides from Omar, I've not really noticed anyone not posting lately. This isn't meant to be antagonistic btw, I'm genuinely curious.

― Nicole, Saturday, 26 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

haven't seen martian on here in a while, ian white and dan have been a bit quiet too. i hope people don't get pushed off by recent events.

― gareth, Saturday, 26 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I reckon Omar's holed up with the Can live double album and some extra strong weed - he'll be back!

I'm now avoiding threads which suddenly get 80 new replies within a few hours. They usually have something in common.

― Dr. C, Saturday, 26 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Well, I locked up Ian and Dan in the Boston Ritz and I refuse to let them out until they admit my supremecy over all things. I plan on doing the same thing to the NYC crew once the St. Moritz reopens.

Can't explain Martian tho.

― Ally, Tuesday, 29 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

*Ahem* Ally is supreme over all things! I shout this from the rooftops because it is true and not because I have been locked into a luxury hotel room with no access to room service with a deranged Brown student gnawing on my left leg!

On a more serious note, I switched jobs. Now that I'm actually doing work, I have less time to respond to things here.

― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 30 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

-----

I reckon Omar's holed up with the Can live double album and some extra strong weed - he'll be back!

-----

Hahahaha. I pays off to visit these threads. But I've been here all the time (around 26th was a bit of a long weekend). Though I'm on holiday to Alpha Centauri on friday, but I'll be back in 10 days, no worries. ;)

― Omar, Wednesday, 30 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

What? You guys didn't jack me for room service? What losers, hello. It's not like I locked the minibar or anything. What am I, a fascist?

― Ally, Wednesday, 30 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

The first thing we did was cear out th eminibar! Then, Ian threw the phone out the window, turned, looked at me with a dangerous gleam in his eye and said, "You HAH-VAHD boys sure make good eatin'!" I thought all those "Brown students are cannibals" statements were rumors, but now I know better.

― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 30 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Jeez, I wish I was there now. It sounds like hella fun. *sighs*

― Ally, Wednesday, 30 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

three years pass...

And now?

― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 31 March 2005 09:58 (twenty years ago)

[flicks Vs, spits, steals your car and sets fire to it]

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Thursday, 31 March 2005 10:02 (twenty years ago)

[farts favourite song by your favourite band at your wedding while trying to snog your little sister]

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Thursday, 31 March 2005 10:04 (twenty years ago)

fuck you fucking pricks. DIE DIE DIE NOW i hate you all. *spits in face, pises on mothers' graves*

― latebloomer: AKA Sir Teddy Ruxpin, Former Scientologist (latebloomer), Thursday, 31 March 2005 14:34 (twenty years ago)

*misspells 'pisses'*

― latebloomer: AKA Sir Teddy Ruxpin, Former Scientologist (latebloomer), Thursday, 31 March 2005 14:35 (twenty years ago)

Pisces on mothers' grave

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 31 March 2005 14:39 (twenty years ago)

Thats my new tripple live prog album

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 31 March 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

wow. the irony there wasnt even intended

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 31 March 2005 15:09 (twenty years ago)

It was only after several pages of nodding my head in agreement with the original poster that realized that it was from 2001.

― Vestigal Appendages, Esq. (King Kobra), Thursday, 31 March 2005 17:51 (twenty years ago)

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