Band A is/are the American/ British Band B......

Alice Cooper is the American David Bowie.

obvious one: Hawkwind is the British Grateful Dead.

Nick Cave is the Australian Tom Waits

Working right now on a piece about how Long Blondes and Glass Candy have had parallel career arcs from glammy power pop into indie disco.

i think soundwise b.o.c. are the american Hawkwind

yeah, I'm talking more about cultural stature and following than musical similarities.

How about Springsteen and Strummer.

New Order/ Foo Fighters?
*runs away*

See I think we should talk about musical values too. Because I do think there are a lot of bands that are either copying or going for the same thing but their Englishness or the Americanness causes them to be the same thing. Just like I think The Stooges could only have come from America and The Kinks could only have come from England.

I worded that extremely poorly.

Yeah.....
What I was wondering though is this; is there a band that reflects certain, opaque to the outsider, aspects of American-ness, the way the Kinks do for Englishness (or particular kinds of Englishness - Massive Attack are just as English, in the sense that they couldn't have been from anywhere else but Bristol, then, but its not a kind of Englishness that the Kinks could ever represent)?
If there's a british Stooges, its the Mary Chain.....

Or Napalm Death.

"is there a band that reflects certain, opaque to the outsider, aspects of American-ness, the way the Kinks do ..."
beach boys come to mind. as do the band, the byrds and mayhap flying burritos?

The Band were 80% Canadian!

Interpol are the American . . . wait, wait, it will come to me . . .

i know that about the band, but they made their name on the chitlin circuit, with Ronnie Hawkins, in the U.S.; and their subsequent sound invented Americana, no?

Massive Attack are just as English, in the sense that they couldn't have been from anywhere else but Bristol

I don't think this is really true

Creedence Clearwater Revival are pretty American

i think soundwise b.o.c. are the american Hawkwind

Unless we're taling about a different b.o.c., they're Scottish (which makes it hard to be the American anything).

Roky Erickson ~ Syd Barrett
The Green Pajamas ~ The Bevis Frond
Guided by Voices ~ Beatnik Filmstars
Pere Ubu ~ Mekons
The Killers ~ Franz Ferdinand

The Beatles ~ Mr. Mister

Fountains of Wayne are the American 10cc

Zero 7 is the British Air
Pavement is the American Fall

Sham 69 are the British Philip Glass Ensemble.

LBZC is the British Alonquin Roundtable

Unless we're taling about a different b.o.c., they're Scottish (which makes it hard to be the American anything).

maybe b.o.c are the scottish b.ö.c!

xpost

Bagsy being Robert Benchley.

What I was wondering though is this; is there a band that reflects certain, opaque to the outsider, aspects of American-ness, the way the Kinks do for Englishness (or particular kinds of Englishness - Massive Attack are just as English, in the sense that they couldn't have been from anywhere else but Bristol, then, but its not a kind of Englishness that the Kinks could ever represent)?

I would say my response upthread is part of an answer to that. David Bowie could never have been from the USA, but Alice Cooper is sort of an American version, with some of the same artistic values, but only with the archetypical English elements of Bowie's style removed and replace with more typical Detroit rock'n'roll elements that you couldn't really imaging coming from an English act. Alice Cooper has a bit of the ironic side of Bowie, though, which is very unusual for an American act (or at least must have been in the first half of the 70s)

I cannot believe that this thread too caved to the same goddamn "b.o.c." thing that happened on that other thread long ago where someone thought "b.o.c." meant Boards of Canada and all these other people (myself included) were incredulous as to how b.o.c. could possibly mean anything other than Blue Oyster Cult. For the last time people BOARDS OF CANADA WERE NOT ACTUALLY ALL THAT SIGNIFICANT OKAY? ONLY IN YOUR LITTLE INDIE ASS CIRCLES OKAY??

I think bowie could be american

The David Bowie who recorded "Young Americans", "Let's Dance", "Tonight", "Never Let Me Down" and "Black Tie White Noise" could have been American. But there is so much more to him than those...

The Jam/ CCR?

Yeah that comment about CCR being American cracked me up. I mean fucking understatement of the year, etc.

something tells me Noodle Vague might just win this thread too, though, I wouldn't put anything past him

What I was wondering though is this; is there a band that reflects certain, opaque to the outsider, aspects of American-ness, the way the Kinks do for Englishness

You mean, like Bruce Springsteen & The E-Street Band?

(Although the actual British equivalent of Springsteen would probably be Billy Bragg)

my preferred substitutes for bruce springsteen are mott the hoople and thin lizzy. (both of whom i love a lot more than the boss. but i like bruce okay.)

What I was wondering though is this; is there a band that reflects certain, opaque to the outsider, aspects of American-ness, the way the Kinks do for Englishness

You mean, like Bruce Springsteen & The E-Street Band?

Maybe America's just not that opaque; not that it doesn't have its mysteries, but because of its dominant cultural position we all know it too well (or think we do).

Maybe Ray Davies -and Townshend - were the Brit Chuck Berry's?

haha nick cave has got progressively mellower throughout his career
tom waits almost seems like the opposite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuDP7c3Zd8I

Nick Cave mellowing out, earlier today.

well, the distorted bass sort of de-mellows that performance. as does the look in nick's eyes :)

Almost too easy, but the Clash ~ the British MC5.

And Dave Marsh once wrote that Lynyrd Skynyrd were "America's answer to the Who." I don't necessarily agree, but I don't necessarily disagree either.

The Jam/ CCR?

OTM. Class-conscious, hit-single machines, emerged from scenes that didn't particularly want them/that they didn't particularly want to be in, cantankerous-arsed frontmen who cut off their bandmates (though Fogerty had considerably more reason to do so than Weller)...

What I was wondering though is this; is there a band that reflects certain, opaque to the outsider, aspects of American-ness, the way the Kinks do for Englishness

The problem with this is that there isn't a single, unified "AMERICA". I mean, there is for foreigners, but if you actually live here (or have visited), America is actually 6 or so different countries. Each country has its own representative, and from there there's economic class, etc. etc.

"What I was wondering though is this; is there a band that reflects certain, opaque to the outsider, aspects of American-ness, the way the Kinks do for Englishness"

The Mountain Goats. And Alabama.

'do you remember walter, playing cricket in the thunder and the rain?'

Somewhat trivial, but Panic! at the Disco are the American Arctic Monkeys

Wire <==> Television?

Kansas' critical reputation is terrible, while Yes' is pretty good, but there are still a lot of progheads who would maintain that the obvious proposition Kansas <==> Yes is a valid one.

The problem with this is that there isn't a single, unified "BRITAIN/UK". I mean, there is for foreigners, but if you actually live here (or have visited), Britain/UK is actually 4 or so different countries. Each country has its own representatives, and from there there's economic class, etc. etc.

Sorry Colonel Poo, it doesn't quite cut it. The UK isn't a country, obviously, it's a union; it'd be like if the US formed some kind-of North American pact with Canada and Mexico. The only comparison you can accurately make is US and England since they're both single countries. The metro area of New York and LA is basically the entire population of England, and the US has 400x the land mass, all settled by different cultural groups pretty recently. Genetic drift occurs when populations get separated over long distances; so cultural drift occurs similarly. Doesn't happen in a country it takes about 2 hours to traverse.

Rush is the North American Yes.

The UK and the US are both unions. state-nations, if you will

King Crimson ~ King Crimson

I'm kind of wondering what the boundaries are here, genre-wise. I guess rock is the only music here that has had basically even contributions to its history by both nations (vs. e.g. jazz or rap, though there are certainly British traditions in both of those too)

Oasis = Black Crowes

Fleetwood Mac I were the British Paul Butterfield Blues Band
Fleetwood Mac II were the American ?

fleetwood mac II were the American fleetwood mac.

The Hold Steady~Thin Lizzy

Kansas=Yes and Foreigner in one though.

That's not a bad call right there.

Flying Burrito Bros / Fairport Convention

... maybe?

OK another one:
New York Dolls <=> Small Faces

Defiantly big city urchins, self referential, druggy, submerged but unselfconscious RnB streak, Dandyish?

I read somewhere in Spin magazine that Oasis is the British Lynyrd Skynyrd... I can kind of see it.

Also, Van Halen is the American Def Leppard, and...

...(say it along with me folks) R.E.M. is the American U2

Other fun ones:

N.W.A. is the American Sex Pistols.
Public Enemy is the American Clash.
2Pac is the American Ian Curtis.

Ian Curtis was never a criminal though.

yeah but he was born in jail...

buffalo tom = teenage fanclub, as i theorised on the buffalo tom thread.

Andrew W. K. is the American Spice Girls.

Wu Tang Clan is the American Blazin' Squad.

Pavement isn't the US Fall. They didn't stick around long enough and their lineup was too stable. If there's a US Fall, it's Pere Ubu:

Revolving-door lineups led by curmudgeonly frontman with an unconventional vocal style, band name is a pretentious French lit reference, put out records on Rough Trade, tried going "commercial" on Fontana in the late 80s/early 90s (didn't really work), probably hate being thought of as a "punk" band, based in industrial cities with populations around 450,000 ...

ZZ Top is the Texan Thin Lizzy

And to be blindingly obvious...

Garbage is the American Curve

The Posies are the American Badfinger

Styx and Foreigner?

The Tubes are the American Slade?

Genetic drift occurs when populations get separated over long distances; so cultural drift occurs similarly. Doesn't happen in a country it takes about 2 hours to traverse

Unless the cultural drift took place during a period that the 2 hours was actually several days and most people didn't travel or have access to any country-wide media.

Many UK bands show signs of their location, I don't just mean the obvious Liverpool 60s or Manchester 90s. The Troggs have a lot of Dorset, theres Swindon in XTC and Glasgow in Mogwai.

Speaking of which, Mogwai are the british Explosions in the Sky.

The Troggs have a lot of Dorset

Odd because they were from Hampshire

The American Badfinger could be Big Star (though Badfinger had actual hits and actual English accents). Or Material Issue (power pop + suicide).

Also, which nation is claiming Foreigner (with both UK and US members)?

Odd because they were from Hampshire

Erm, yes, Andover is kinda near Dorset though... I don't know the area too well to be honest. For some reason I always thought they were very close to that town Fripp is from and I just looked it up and found that it isn't

The point remains though, The Troggs are, erm, Andoverish.

Incidentally theres a cheap 3 cd set of the complete Troggs a/b sides and there are loads of great lesser known troggs tunes (there is also a lot of filler).

Billy Joel (although always slightly more MOR) is the American Elton John.