Popular Music

this is pretty much always the case

it is popular for a reason

60s, no

I don't really entirely meant that tho

http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/images/troll.jpg

18th-19th century. who knows?

yeah, the weeks when rumours was at the top of the charts

I've had about three periods in my life when I was like "damn, I love all the stuff everybody else loves right now" - I don't know if "it's popular for a reason" is really very persuasive for me though & I'm guessing you don't really mean that B

Maybe in the pre-bebop jazz era? But Duke Ellington wasn't as popular as Glenn Miller.

more importantly though: remy, wtf

yes, now.

^^^depth

--------"damn, I love all the stuff everybody else loves right now"

Do these periods last for than a few weeks tho? Cos yeah I've had loads of them

60s, some of the 70s, 90s and 00s for rap

also pretty much all of the 19th century

"it's popular for a reason" kind of unfairly throws away entire genres just because they lack the "traditional" sort of pop hooks (see: ambient, death metal, etc) and then you start getting into geir territory

or are we just talking about pop music here

Some of the best music at any given time is very popular and some of the best music at any given time is very obscure and most of it is probably somewhere in the middle. Insightful, I know.

i think that this could perhaps be true for much of the music from the 60s and early 70s, not that i was there to observe it at the time. i do also know that there was a lot of stuff from that era that while held in very high esteem on a critical level, may not have been justly acknowledged at the time.

i also tend to equate the best jazz that i've heard with stuff that was/is more recognised and appreciated within the genre.

i don't really listen to any music that's truly popular in the present era except for the odd single from time to time. i might even consciously look outside of what's popular to find something new that appeals to me on a genuine level.

well but "geir territory" is actually I think some of where my interest lies: not to speak for him, but I think he does think there was a time when people knew good music when they heard it, and now they've lost their way. I wonder whether this sort of thinking (which I, cards on table, think is more a function of nostalgia than much else, a lot of the time) is more general. I can think of three times, 1-2 year periods, when my taste seemed to align pretty closely with popular music; I expect I'll see a few more periods like this, maybe.

this question is too hard, i just don't know the answer yet.

i think now that you've brought up the question of 'taste', i can come to terms with my own thoughts on the topic a little bit more closely.

maybe in the early 90s my taste corresponded pretty closely with what i was hearing regularly on the radio and seeing on tv. but with taste being a variable that for the better part of my life has been constantly subject to processes of refining and re-evaluation, i have very uncertain grounds for identifying the music i appreciated way back when as reflecting what was truly the best of an era.

but a lot of the music that i think is the finest of a particular era, say pavement in the early 90s, has obviously been vastly popular in specific circles. and i think that the music of particular genres has a certain limit on how much reception it can possibly garner from a wider, more mainstream audience. so in terms of great music being pretty much as popular as it can get, yes i think that happens regularly.

sorry I am unclear, I assume we're all on the same page in re: "the best music" always and only meaning "the music I like best," musical quality being always & only a matter of taste - I feel like that's asked-and-answered territory there

yeah that's cool, i totally agree with that distinction :)

um, i think this question will have greater resonance for me in years to come, largely because i think my tastes will be subject to change and i'll have a more established and personal perspective on different eras in music ie. i'm too young at this point in time to have lived through much change.

The last time for me was probably when Born in the USA ruled the charts. Doubt it'll happen any time soon, unless I develop an unexpected interest in the High School Musical franchise. I actually think this question might be more interesting if we tried to figure out if there was a time when chart music was "better" (or maybe that is pointless).

John, I think you're right with the nostalgia thing. To take the 60s, sure the Beatles were the biggest thing going, but a lot of the Who's rep, say, was applied retroactively after Tommy. They opened for Herman's Hermit's and all that. And to look at the 60s charts, an awful lot of it is Herb Alpert and Melanie and New Christie Minstrels. And those who care about music retroactively polish our listening, to make a story out of it. For something to be the "best of an era" means there's the distance to assess the era, which means ignoring the parts that don't hold up.

I opened a library book that hadn't been checked out very recently, and found a bookmark, a Top Forty playlist from the spring of 1968, April, I think,and I knew most of the songs, to some degree. Even the bad ones were amazingly bad, and there weren't many bad ones. Some were just good, in an unamazing way, but holy shit there were a lot of greats. Can't remember too many titles now (I could look up April 1968 hits of course), but kind of an-eat-my-heart-out, crushingly envious sensation--even though all of that stuff is readily available--but to have it all be *this* spring's music--it is this spring's music, but for the first time, I mean. Not that I didn't like a lot of popular music, flavor of the minute etc,of various trends and trendettes of various genres and subgenres working in CD stores in the late-mid-90s through early mid-00s. But damn what a list. (And the bad stuff has been way too merely, not awesomely bad, for far too long.)

In my metaphysic of pop music, there occurred a rift sometime in the 60s between music made for pleasure and music made for profit. It grew, and in the 80s, it became so pronounced that it was impossible to ignore. I think that this rift still exists today, although attempts have been made to heal it. Ultimately, these efforts, they are doomed.

Thus, I can trace my distaste for "popular" pop music back to just before the time of my birth, oddly enough. It's not that I don't like anything that's popular after that, just that all pop music after, say, 1970, is contexualized by the rift. Prior to, say, 1960, I see no such division. It's not that I like all popular music from prior to then, but it's difficult to make as clear a distinction as I now hold for recent pop.

So, well, I guess that the answer to yr question is that it's the wrong question to ask, at least in terms of how I see the pop world.

Not really..popular music is usually simple stuff for general mass audiences....even with good popular bands, only the simpler, generic fair usually gains appeal. This has been the case with Pink Floyd and The Who. But even more importantly, even in the 60 and 70s the best bands; Love, Nirvana, The Pretty Things, The Kinks, Pink Floyd, and Clouds were often ignored, while many of these received airplay, only there simple music was appreciated with the experimental fair like Atom Heart Mother and the many Concept Album the Kinks put out in the period, completely ignored.

Top sellers Spring 1968

Mar-68

1 Cindarella Rockafella Esther and Abi Ofarim
2 The Mighty Quinn Manfred Mann
3 Legend Of Xanadu Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Titch
4 Bend Me Shape Me Amen Corner
5 She Wears My Ring Solomon King
6 Fire Brigade The Move
7 Pictures Of Matchstick Men Status Quo
8 Words The Bee Gees
9 Everlasting Love The Love Affair
10 Suddenly You Love Me The Tremeloes
11 Green Tambourine The Lemon Pipers
12 Gimme Little Sign Brenton Wood
13 Am I That Easy To Forget Engelbert Humperdinck
14 Rosie Don Partridge
15 Jennifer Juniper Donovan
16 Darlin' The Beach Boys
17 Judy In Disguise (With Glasses) John Fred and his Playboy Band
18 Don't Stop The Carnival The Alan Price Set
19 Back On My Feet Again The Foundations
20 I Can Take Or Leave Your Loving Herman's Hermits
21 Delilah Tom Jones
22 Dock Of The Bay Otis Redding
23 Me, The Peaceful Heart Lulu
24 Wonderful World Louis Armstrong
25 Lady Madonna The Beatles
26 If I Were A Carpenter The Four Tops
27 Love Is Blue Paul Mauriat
28 Guitar Man Elvis Presley
29 Congratulations Cliff Richard
30 Step Inside Love Cilla Black
31 If I Only Had Time John Rowles
32 Ain't Nothin' But A Houseparty The Showstoppers

Apr-68

1 Lady Madonna The Beatles
2 Delilah Tom Jones
3 Congratulations Cliff Richard
4 Dock Of The Bay Otis Redding
5 Wonderful World Louis Armstrong
6 Cindarella Rockafella Esther and Abi Ofarim
7 If I Were A Carpenter The Four Tops
8 Legend Of Xanadu Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Titch
9 Step Inside Love Cilla Black
10 Rosie Don Partridge
11 If I Only Had Time John Rowles
12 Love Is Blue Paul Mauriat
13 Jennifer Juniper Donovan
14 Me, The Peaceful Heart Lulu
15 Captain Of Your Ship Reparata and The Delrons
16 Ain't Nothin' But A Houseparty The Showstoppers
17 Fire Brigade The Move
18 Simon Says The 1910 Fruitgum Co.
19 Valleri The Monkees
20 Can't Take My Eyes Off You Andy Williams
21 Jennifer Eccles The Hollies
22 I Can't Let Maggie Go Honeybus
23 Cry Like A Baby The Box Tops
24 Something Here In My Heart The Paper Dolls
25 Lazy Sunday The Small Faces
26 White Horses Jacky
27 Hello How Are You The Easybeats
28 Rock Around The Clock Bill Haley and his Comets

May-68

1 Wonderful World Louis Armstrong
2 Simon Says The 1910 Fruitgum Co.
3 Lazy Sunday The Small Faces
4 If I Only Had Time John Rowles
5 Can't Take My Eyes Off You Andy Williams
6 Congratulations Cliff Richard
7 Man Without Love Engelbert Humperdinck
8 Jennifer Eccles The Hollies
9 I Can't Let Maggie Go Honeybus
10 Delilah Tom Jones
11 Something Here In My Heart The Paper Dolls
12 I Don't Want Our Loving To Die The Herd
13 Ain't Nothin' But A Houseparty The Showstoppers
14 White Horses Jacky
15 Cry Like A Baby The Box Tops
16 Young Girl Gary Puckett and The Union Gap
17 Captain Of Your Ship Reparata and The Delrons
18 Valleri The Monkees
19 Somewhere In The Country Gene Pitney
20 Honey Bobby Goldsboro
21 Rainbow Valley The Love Affair
22 Little Green Apples Roger Miller
23 Sleepy Joe Herman's Hermits
24 Joanna Scott Walker
25 Helule Helule The Tremeloes
26 This Wheel's On Fire Julie Driscoll, Brian Auger and The Trinity
27 U.S. Male Elvis Presley
28 Do You Know The Way To San Jose Dionne Warwick

I think we need to take into account both the amount of music made at any given time (and concurrent access to that music), and also the weight of history, when considering things like the average quality of musical output in the 60s. i.e. there was lot less music made then than in the 00s, so you're tastes for that era are more likely to have been popular, just cos there's less to choose from. Also, the phenomenon, as alluded to already, of no one remembering the general musical crap and detritus because it doesn't get played / reissued / fetishised down the line of history.

But mainly I think this phenomena, the 'being in tune with the masses' or 'suddenly liking what's popular' or 'thinking popular = best' at any given point in time is less about the mainstream moving towards you, and more about you moving towards the mainstream. I think, by and large, that what we like is pretty arbitrary, depending on lots of things, not least what we choose to pay attention to.

Lost my train of thought now.

For something to be the "best of an era" means there's the distance to assess the era, which means ignoring the parts that don't hold up

exactly. in thirty year's time the songs that don't hold up won't be played, whereas at any given time 'now' there will be five or six tunes all over the radio that are patently shite.

scik et al otm .

i only explore older music from before my time if I heard/of it somewhere in the first place - because someone liked it/thought it was interesing enough to play/mention.

and the years have thankfully allowed me i hope to be more flexible/open minded as to musical tastes (fifteen years ago i would never have believed i would own any rap, country, soul... the list goes on) and got rid of the idea that popular does not equal intersting/quality

re classical:
a small list of composers who were not amongst the most popular music of their time and only reached their current status after death:
js bach, schubert, mozart, mahler, bartok, berlioz, schoenberg, webern.
but the list of currently esteemed composers who were top of the pops over many years in their own lifetime is much longer, so this broadly makes sense.

Skimmed thread, apols if I repeat anything: in a subjective way, much of the 80s to me was turned out in hindsight to be chart/pop music I think has stood up marvellously. I'm thinking of the fact there were acts like Talking Heads, Laurie Anderson, Yello, Art of Noise... well I could go on, but experimental stuff seemed to have a real heyday at one point in the 80s in a way it doesn't seem to now (though I guess you could argue Radiohead or something, I dunno).

much of the 80s to me was turned out in hindsight to be chart/pop music

Err wtf I'm not sure where I was going with that non-sentence, I meant "much of the innovative stuff I still like has been chart/pop music" (of the 80s)

1) 1966, 1972, maybe 1984

2) no*

*I think this state of pop grace -- or perfect storm to use the current cliche -- depends on the age of the listener. for many people. not everyone, it occurs at some adolescent/just-post adolescent moment when what you hear on the radio -- or see on TV -- hits you just the right way. for me it was classic transistor radio rock & roll when I was a little kid (66) or the awesome early 70s heyday of psychedelic soul.

there are also transitory phases when popular songs suddenly seem to speak to what you're experiencing -- out of the blue, almost arbitrarily. for me it was the late-disco urban radio when I first came to New York. the boomboxx era. Never felt that way before or since, where randomly heard songs and singers functioned as a sort of Greek chorus to the unfolding events of my life. pull up to the bumper, baby.

1) It was that whole explosion of gangsta rap in the early '90s (into mid '90s) for me, when I was 12-14, or whatever.. Hasn't really happened again since.
2) I hope so. I'm waiting for rock radio to not = like, Nickelback and um...Buckcherry? What's on the radio today? I pretty much think they should just put "Click Your Fingers Applauding The Play" on repeat. Save us all a lot of hassle.

In my metaphysic of pop music, there occurred a rift sometime in the 60s between music made for pleasure and music made for profit.

I don't think this is true, musicians have always been about making money and I don't think there's anything wrong with that

And why do people always regard the two as mutually exclusive?

When Oxide and Neutrino got to number one.

snark

I think it was 1986 where I pretty much loved and adored every single song I heard on the radio; to this day, I consider "Let's Go All The Way" one of the greatest songs ever recorded.

To take the 60s, sure the Beatles were the biggest thing going, but a lot of the Who's rep, say, was applied retroactively after Tommy. They opened for Herman's Hermit's and all that

In the USA you mean, not in the UK. Kinks, Pink Floyd, The Who were all Top 10 acts.

Yes, the songs on the country charts from 1988-1992 or so were the songs I thought best at the time. That's true off and on with the country charts ever since (was true late last year, not as much right now). So I think this will continue to happen, assuming the country charts are relevant to what you're asking.

To take the 60s, sure the Beatles were the biggest thing going, but a lot of the Who's rep, say, was applied retroactively after Tommy. They opened for Herman's Hermit's and all that

Also, Decca did a shitty job "promoting" the Who in the US (like by not sending promo copies of their singles to the trade papers, for instance). It was only through the Who's constant touring that they had enough of a fan base by the time Tommy came out to make it a relatively immediate hit.

M Coleman has it most right for me -- I'd say that the time in question in my case was from 1981 to 1986, ie when I was ten to fifteen years old and essentially listening to top forty exclusively. Thus I identify with the 'classic transistor radio' phase in particular but in my case it was early eighties top forty, for which I've always been glad.

It hasn't happened again in quite that sense since for a number of related reasons. First, some part of me burned out badly around 1986, everything started to seem very flat and stale, but instead of seeking out other music much I sidestepped a bit -- I'd already amassed a bit of a record collection which I was busy playing into the ground while most of my energy went toward reading and other things. Then after that it was classic rock radio for a year plus getting my own CD player and starting to randomly buy things in senior year of high school, then it was college, college radio, finding the 1989 Trouser Press Guide...it trundled onward.

So I've never been as truly immersed in pop as such since, it's always been to the side, something I've engaged with in different ways over time. John's question becomes hard for me to answer as a result, the context is very skewed for me.

What was that Guardian article written by some 12 year old girl about how all the "nu-rock revolution" bands are awesome and why all us twenty-something fogeys should just get over britpop already? Can't find it now.

My context is pretty much as skewed as Ned's. I stopped listening to mainstream radio when I was about 13 or 14; still watched MTV, but didn't keep up with what was topping the charts in any more than a cursory way. But knowing what I know (which ain't all that much, really) about music in general, I would say:

1) No, I don't think there was a time when the best music was the most popular music. My favorite era of mainstream rock was roughly 1969-1975 - the rise of Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, the Stooges, Grand Funk Railroad, Cactus, ZZ Top, Deep Purple's best years, etc. etc....basically, proto-metal hard blooze rock, plus the best albums by King Crimson, Yes, Van der Graaf Generator, ELP and Can. A lot of this stuff was very popular, but it wasn't the most popular music of its time. And post-1975, an increasing percentage of music has been shit, just because of volume of production. So many more records have been released per year since the mid-'70s that quality has dropped off massively.

2) There's no way in hell the best stuff is gonna be the most popular stuff in the future, just because of the mass production and cultural atomization/balkanization that have marked the post-1975 music scene.

One thing that I've just remembered -- part of my disenchantment with the basic pop radio cycle lay in its overt endless repetition, which changed over time. Thus, when I was ten, eleven, knowing that a station like the Mighty 690 would cycle through the top forty every two hours was great ("I get to hear that song again!"). By fifteen, sixteen it was stultifying.

My context is pretty much as skewed as Ned's. I stopped listening to mainstream radio when I was about 13 or 14;

^^^Yeah, probably about 15 yrs old for me.

Also, wasn't music more balkanized and regional BEFORE 1975 than it is now?

(I'm probably way off here)

1) Do you feel there was an era when much of the best music being made was also the most popular music?

-- J0hn D., Sunday, May 11, 2008 11:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

yes, I feel this way at present

wasn't music more balkanized and regional BEFORE 1975

regional - yes, balkanized - no. there were flourishing regional styles and labels that stayed local but at the same time the Top 40 was less heterogeneous, regional hits had a better shot at going national pretty much up through the disco era. i'd put the cutoff at 1979 when the big sales slump restructured the business.

Sometimes I like to play a what if? game with this question---like supposes Lee Abrams in creating the Album Oriented Rock format in America in the mid-70s had used a more varied format, and how would that have affected Clear Channel programming in later years, and college radio and indie and underground...

Also, the Beatles, James Brown, and [a country singer] were all 'popular' in 1965 with large demographics but not necessarily with the same demographics. And radio, concert promotion, and media coverage were probably a bit different than as well.

tons of white middleclass teenagers bought 45s by the Beatles and the Supremes in the 60s. but probably not Buck Owens

Oh okay. More dumb questions: How would a more specialized, regional hit have a better chance at breaking through to a less diverse and varied national stage? I'm a little tripped up there.

Yes, and yes

Also, the Beatles, James Brown, and [Roger Miller] were all 'popular' in 1965 with large demographics but not necessarily with the same demographics. And radio, concert promotion, and media coverage were probably a bit different than as well.

In his book The Rise and Fall of Popular Music, Donald Clarke makes the argument that the pinnacle of pop music was the big-band era, because the "best" music of the day was also the best-selling/most popular. I don't think I agree with him, but it's an interesting argument, and a fascinating book even if you violently disagree.

xgau in his 70s wrap-up:

Antimainstreamism is the crux of the decade. It's a truism now; for some it's been a truism longer than it's been true; I've been thinking about it myself since 1970, when circumstances forced me to coin the phrase "semi-popular music." (Definition: "music that is appreciated--I use the term advisedly--for having all the earmarks of popular music except one: popularity. Just as semi-classical music is a systematic dilution of highbrow preferences, semi-popular music is a crossbred concentration of fashionable modes.") But there's no way to proceed without laying it out one more time, so here we go. In the '60s, the best rock and roll had cultural life. The audience wasn't as massive as some acolytes believed, but the music was broadly popular nonetheless, supported by a consensus that made it resonate in ways so-called high art could not. But in the '70s the best rock and roll has had what might be called subcultural life; it is the domain of a new kind of elite, a pop elite. Even when it achieves multi-platinum, there's rarely any reason to feel that its millions respond to more than a fraction of what makes it as good as it is. It is no longer enriched by consensus--it has to justify itself formally, as art.

Did anyone here, as an eight-year-old, like music that wasn't popular music? When I was 8, I liked Sylvester, "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover" ("you don't have to be cordouroy"), and Billy Joel's The Stranger.

If you're like me, things changed when we were old enough to go to record stores and find records based on their appearance (Pere Ubu's Song of the Bailing Main, Yaz's Upstairs at Eric's) instead of hearing them first on the radio or on TV or in the background at restaurants.

Then there's talking about music as a teenager, which leads to learning about other kinds of less popular music, and (at least for me) finding community radio, and getting old enough to see live music in venues (again, for me, blues and zydeco and jazz) that led to straying further away from what was popular.

But, yeah, I can see how, for a 20-year-old in 2008, a Snow Patrol could have particular connotations and associations when he or she hears it again in 2025, the way a decent pop song like "Come On Eileen" does for us aging folks.

I bet that happens sometimes now. I have a friend whose young children love Air. But it probably happened pretty infrequently 20 years ago.

I like the implication that Air were around 20 years ago.

I imagine there are little kids who like weird music because their hipster parents foist it on them. Then they rebel against their parents by listening to the popular stuff on the radio.

I always liked what David J had to say about that -- he mentioned some years ago in an interview that his kids listened to stuff he didn't care for but that he would never tell them what to listen to or not, because he thought that was really stupid. John Peel said similar as well, remembering an old interview with him. Sharp guys.

Some of the best music at any given time is very popular and some of the best music at any given time is very obscure and most of it is probably somewhere in the middle. Insightful, I know

This is probably the most accurate answer - though not particularly interesting to argue about. I'd say that the era in my memory when the most popular and best music had the greatest overlap was probably the early-to-mid '80s.

Some friends of mine have a three-year-old daughter who can sing all the words to Pavement's "Stereo".

http://www.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/285x214/43387_1.jpg

It varies. I think in early grade school, the overlap between "best" and "popular" is quite big, but the union of the two shrinks quite rapidly as you enter junior high, then definitely by high school.

My first ever record was some astronomical data record my grandfather bought me for a quarter at a neighborhood yard sale. The Harmony Of The World. Made by some dudes in Princeton college in 1979. It was a microtonal simulation of the nine planet's orbits within a period of a few centuries obviously sped up. Still the creepiest record I own today. But I didn't realize it was creepy until I rediscovered it in my college days.

When I was a kid, I have no idea what was "underground" or "difficult" or any of that. I just was totally into astronomy, and so I was trying to figure out how to make this record "fun". At the time, the turntable I was using had all four speeds, so I'd just play the record switching the speed meter between 16 and 78 randomly around. I had no idea that this was essentially setting myself up to *not* be disgusted by difficult music later. It was easy to hop from Exposé to Einsturzende Neubauten after that.

Anyway, sorry for the TMI. I have no idea what I'd be like if it wasn't for The Harmony Of The World.

1) Do you feel there was an era when much of the best music being made was also the most popular music? (not a trick question or anything, the answer could well be "yes, I feel this way at present")

2) if the answer to question 1) is "yes" and that era is in the past, do you expect to see such a time again?

1. I think so, especially pre-20th century....but then the only old stuff I could say was the "best" is stuff still around for me to hear -- and that's probably what was performed or printed up (ie sheet music) the most, which probably means it was popular. so really, who knows.

2. sure why not

Heh. My parents instilled in me a deep hatred of commercial radio, which I've only shed partially over time. I do remember, during my early teens, when "Alternative" radio took over (89X in particular), but even then, it wasn't the dominant mode, and by the time it was the dominant mode, I was listening to other stuff. This has led to odd conversations with my girlfriend, like "Wait, why are you playing that Paula Abdul album?" "I dunno. I wasn't allowed to listen to it as a kid, and I was always curious about her." "God, it sucks!"

I agree with the points upthread about it being difficult to judge eras you haven't lived through 'cos you're hearing stuff filtered, there's bound to be loads of crap from any golden age which has been forgotten about. Then again it depends whether or not consensus opinion aligns with your own taste; the idea of 'standing the test of time' can be a pretty nebulous concept I think.

Nevertheless, as far as I can tell the period from maybe 1980-82 looks good from a chart perspective (in the UK at least), also mainstream music from that era compares very favourably with what was going on in the underground. I think there's probably a lot to be said for the late '60s too but I'm a bit fuzzy with dates.

As for the second part of the question, I think it could happen but there'd have to be a major shift in the way daytime radio works first.

After reviewing some charts, I can narrow it down to 1980-85.

I like the implication that Air were around 20 years ago.

The one that isn't crap; 40 years ago:

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200/drp000/p044/p04482r85qk.jpg

I think it could happen but there'd have to be a major shift in the way daytime radio works first.

I think if what gets played in Starbucks and other third spaces surpasses radio as far as influence goes that there's potential for stuff that isn't so rigidly polished and tested.

sorry I am unclear, I assume we're all on the same page in re: "the best music" always and only meaning "the music I like best," musical quality being always & only a matter of taste - I feel like that's asked-and-answered territory there. -- J0hn D.,

I think that, if we're thinking of "music (we) like best," than, no, there never was an era when the music I like best was also the most popular music.

It's really rare that something I like charts. I think that if you like more communal aspects of music listening (latest trends, big parties, social events like dances, or just plain dancing) then it may be easier to relate to popular music. If you view music as something that helps make you feel distinct from your surroundings, or that helps you put your alienation in perspective, or that focuses or channels negative feelings you have, then it's harder to relate to mass-media expression.

I don't think this makes me elitist, and I don't think it discounts the feelings of kids who felt better listening to Ozzy or Korn or whatever. That stuff just always made me feel worse (probably because it was what the bullies who were to me just another part of my high school milieu liked).