who is the best songwriter in Sonic Youth?

lee>thurston>kim

yes, lee>thurston>kim

^

i CAN'T HELKP IT Kim gordon is drinving me out of my minds

i mean - Mote,Pipeline...creme de la dreme...

obsession with Kim is so 1988 man..

It's the Confusion of Sex record. Damnit. I was in Canada the first time I heard that a few years ago. I was absolutely spellbound. And then fucking Michael Gira shows up later on it doesn't he? Christ.

http://www.webcrawler.com/clickserver/_iceUrlFlag=1?rawURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.altmusic.ru%2Fbands%2FSonicYouth%2FConfusionisSex.html&0=&1=0&4=72.53.194.53&5=75.92.133.164&9=d3fbead2228745169ed3f2a034b3c801&10=1&11=info.wbcrwl&13=search&14=372380&15=main-title&17=17&18=17&19=0&20=0&21=17&22=KjkJzRlSo%2Fk%3D&40=TjxQfirBHkVjEAutRUkWcQ%3D%3D&_IceUrl=true

http://sp1.yt-thm-a02.yimg.com/image/25/m8/4183139488

jim o'rourke > steve shelley

Kim Gordon, people. I mean oh my god you have got to believe in that woman.

Even though I love Thurston don't get me wrong.

Lee obv.

Lee will own this poll (as well he should)

bimble otm.

kim ruelz. NO MORE PANTY LIES!

UR SO SOFT
U MAKE ME HAAAAARD

LEE IS FREE

I heard from a reliable source that Thurston wrote all of Kim's songs up until "Goo," and now has started writing them again.

Where is list of who wrote what?

I'm not a lyrics guy, but, boy, I have to concentrate hard to avoid hearing Ranaldo's terrible quasi-beat poetry. It's not enough to stop my enjoyment of "Hoarfrost" or0 "Eric's Trip."

Ranaldo's lyrics are kind of bad, sure, but Thurston and Kim's are far worse. And Ranaldo's lyrics are easier to swallow because he sings them in that weird, deadpan-but-full-of-conviction voice, which I've always liked much better than Thurston's forced brattiness and Kim's theatrical vomit yelling (which is not to say I have a problem with either of those). Lee always sounds very relatable even when he's spouting off what sounds like nonsense. Which leads to another thing I like about Lee, which is that his songs are typically very clearly about something, even if he's using sort-of-silly language to get the point across. I had no trouble getting the point of "Eric's Trip" the first time I heard it, for instance.

I've always thought of every last Sonic Youth lyric as completely ignorable.

HELLO 2015!

jim o'rourke > steve shelley

hmmm...
faceless mediocrity > the keith moon of his generation?

Easy, Lee.

I vote Lee and he should get more of his songs played in Sonic Youth concerts these days.

Lee didn't really write most of the lyrics for Eric's Trip, right? I don't know the ratio, but a bunch of 'em are from a scene from Chelsea Girls.

xpost.

I vote Lee, but I'm curious to see a best singer in Sonic Youth poll. I'd vote Kim>Lee>Thurston...Kim just sounds so horribly nasty

Kim is punk

You guys are crazy. I like Lee, but there are reasons why he only writes one song an album. Thurston gets my nod.

Not that "songs" are really Sonic Youth's strength anyway.

I am bewildered by all the Lee support. Thurston, easily.

I sat behind Lee at a Film Foum screening of Chelsea Girls, and when the Eric Emerson scene came up I fought back a major urge to shake his seat and say "YEAH ALRIGHT, MAN!"

I really like most of Lee's songs - but still it's Thurston, easily.

Thurston is a lot more prolific, so that should be taken into consideration, but Lee's contributions have always stood out. For a guy who only gets a song or two per record, a disproportionate number of his songs rate as some of SY's best stuff.

OTM

George Harrison was only good for two songs per album too.

I like Lee, but there are reasons why he only writes one song an album. Thurston gets my nod.

OTM

Thurston>Lee>Kim

Thurston, same reasons as everybody else in the sane half of this thread. Sure, song-for-song, Lee's got a much better average, but there's a reason for that.

"I am bewildered by all the Lee support. Thurston, easily."

What's so bewildering? He's written a significant percentage of their best songs in spite of the fact that he doesn't have all that many to his credit relative to Thurston. Even "Genetic" which was a throwaway B-side was better than most of the other stuff on "Dirty". There's the often repeated story that he nearly quit the band over that, but I have no idea if it's true or not. It's a simple case of quality over quantity. Thurston's great, but he's the 2nd best songwriter in Sonic Youth.

All Lee Songs (Evol thru 1,000 Leaves):

In the Kingdom #19 (Evol)
Pipeline/Kill Time (Sister)
Eric's Trip (Daydream Nation)
Hey Joni (DN)
Rain King (DN)
Mote (Goo)
Wish Fulfillment (Dirty)
Genetic (Dirty outtake)
Saucer-Like (Washing Machine)
Skip Tracer (WM)
Karen Koltrane (A Thousand Leaves)
Hoarfrost (1KL)

Lists starts with Evol (first album to feature a full song by Lee), ends with 1,000 Leaves (arbitrarily, as it’s the last SY album I cared for). Includes “Genetic” ‘cuz it’s one of the band’s best non-album tracks.

P.S. Please forgive/correct whatever I've got wrong.

Better Thurston Songs (same period)

Tom Violence (Evol)
Starpower (Evol)
Expressway to Yr. Skull (Evol)
Schizophrenia (Sister, w/Kim)
Catholic Block (Sister)
Stereo Sanctity (Sister)
Tuff Gnarl (Sister)
Kotton Krown (Sister, w/Kim)
White Kross (Sister)
Teenage Riot (Daydream Nation)
Silver Rocket (DN)
Total Trash (DN)
Hyperstation (DN)
Dirty Boots (Goo)
Mary-Christ (Goo)
Disappearer (Goo)
Theresa’s Sound-World (Dirty)
Sugar Kane (Dirty)
Chapel Hill (Dirty)
Purr (Dirty)
Self-Obsessed and Sexxee (Experimental Jet-Set)
Androgynous Mind (EJS)
Tokyo Eye (EJS)
Junkie’s Promise (Washing Machine)
No Queen Blues (WM)
The Diamond Sea (WM)
Sunday (A Thousand Leaves)
Wildflower Soul (1KL)
Hits of Sunshine (1KL)

Better Kim Songs (ibid)

Shadow of a Doubt (Evol)
Schizophrenia (Sister, w/Thurston)
Beauty Lies in the Eye (Sister)
P.C.H. (Sister)
Kotton Krown (Sister, w/Thurston)
The Sprawl (Daydream Nation)
Cross the Breeze (DN)
Kissability (DN)
Eliminator Jr. (DN)
Tunic (Goo)
Kool Thing (Goo)
Drunken Butterfly (Dirty)
Orange Rolls, Angels Spit (Dirty)
Crème Brûlèe (Dirty)
Bull in the Heather (Experimental Jet-Set)
Bone (EJS)
Becuz (Washing Machine)
Washing Machine (WM)
Little Trouble Girl (WM)
Female Mechanic (A Thousand Leaves)
Heather Angel (1KL)

Better Thurston Songs (same period)
Chapel Hill (Dirty)
Self-Obsessed and Sexxee (Experimental Jet-Set)
Androgynous Mind (EJS)
Tokyo Eye (EJS)
Junkie’s Promise (Washing Machine)
No Queen Blues (WM)

no way

Healthy debate keeps our nation strong.

Anyway, for me, it has to be Thurston 'cuz of Expressway, Schizophrenia, Tuff Gnarl, Total Trash, Hyperstation, Mary-Christ, Disappearer, all three songs I listed off Experimental Jet-Set... and The (fucking amazing) Diamond Sea.

Gordon comes in 2nd for Shadow of a Doubt, Schizophrenia, P.C.H., Cross the Breeze, Tunic, Kool Thing, Creme Brulee, Bull in the Heather, Washing Machine, Little Trouble Girl.

Lee's great, though. Mote and Wish Fulfillment are maybe Sonic Youth's most moving and emotionally expressive songs (some days, Mote is my favorite SY song period). Pipeline, Eric's Trip, Rain King and Genetic all rule.

Skip Tracer is my fave SY song and Hoarfrost ain't too far behind

Does Kim get any credit for "I dreamed I dream"? I know the lyrics are attributed to Lee and Richard Edson. Either way, that's one more to add to Lee's list.

I agree with Mr.Que that there are more than a couple of songs from the "better Thurston and Kim songs" lists which don't stack up, but I also agree that healthy debate is a positive thing.

Chapel Hill (Dirty) --dumb goofy stupid, not half as good as Purr or anything else on Dirty

Self-Obsessed and Sexxee (Experimental Jet-Set)
Androgynous Mind (EJS)
Tokyo Eye (EJS)

ugh^^^

Junkie’s Promise (Washing Machine)
It's okay, but this album is all about the 2 Lee songs, Becuz and The Diamond Sea.

No Queen Blues (WM)--again, it's pretty stupid

ha, sD....i mistakenly thought erics trip was eric emerson audio alone with some added bits by lee. ive never sat through chelsea girls.

this debate is always tricky to me, as i have a hard time thinking of sy songs as by one person or another, as the lyrics/voice are always only one slight part of the whole mess. sure, "i love her all the time" is thurston, but its really lee's guitar and kim's bass that bring that song to you. in the end, im a lee ranaldo sucker, so....

new free kitten record, though, is pretty damned alright

sorry guys, but none of the above imo

I wrote for that one too. The day after it closed down I got a phone call. "Hi, it's Sonic Youth's office. Can Kim use your article as song lyrics? You *will* get a co-write." HELL YEAH.

Song is called Eyes and Teeth and article was about stage school bratz at 1t4l14 c0nt1.

-- suzy

lol

well at least this thread has confirmed the obvious: Sonic Youth, possibly the best band in existence with three distinctly awesome songwriters

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

To what extent is it known who wrote the music for SY songs? I'm assuming whoever sings it wrote the vocal melody, but do we know that the songs are generally brought to the band by that person vs. written by jamming?

I seem to remember an interview where they talked about divvying up songs for lyric writing. That, and the fact that most of the demos from Goo and Dirty are instrumentals makes me think the songs are not presented to the band fully formed.

Yeah. Ultimately parsing who wrote what is as useless as doing this exercise with New Order.

Hideous & Alfred OTM. Just going with singer/lyricist as "author" 'cuz that's the only not-totally-ambiguous strategy. Otherwise, it's near impossible as a non-bandmember to say who wrote what.

...this album (Washing Machine) is all about the 2 Lee songs, Becuz and The Diamond Sea.
-- Mr. Que

And didn't much of A Thousand Leaves spring from the SYR group improvs?

Oh yeah, and not only are most of the demos instrumentals, a buncha them have different titles than the finished songs. The demo "Barracuda" (so named because they thought it sounded like a Heart song) later became "Drunken Butterfly" as a play on "Dog and Butterfly" when Kim wrote the lyrics.

I believe I have shat upon this thread's premise from a great height.

(So maybe Lee just writes the best vocal melodies.)

Little off topic, but does anyone else love the new SYR they just released?

wish they'd release it on CD...

yep. im not overwhelmed with the 1st piece, though i do tend to like that era sy quite a lot. second (studio) piece is lovely and sprawling. i think id like another 20 minutes of that..its an syr, so if you like syr issues and nyc ghosts, you'll like it.

they have used various strategies for writing over the years, making this poll silly, yes indeed. (it also implies that jim was little beyond a session man, which we all know to be a worldwide lie) xpost to hideaous and alfred

...this album (Washing Machine) is all about the 2 Lee songs, Becuz and The Diamond Sea.
-- Mr. Que
Not sure I read you, Que. Kim sings Becuz and Thurston sings The Diamond Sea. Then again, see above...

I meant Washing Machine is all about Skip Tracer, Saucer Like, (i.e. the two Lee songs) Becuz, and the Diamond Sea

man, skip tracer is....that number is pretty priceless.

but washing machine has a lot more to offer.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Hur-hur. "Songwriters."

good to know theres still justice in the world

b.s. results

No idea so many beat poetry fans around.

To what extent is it known who wrote the music for SY songs? I'm assuming whoever sings it wrote the vocal melody

I remember reading something about a recent Lee-sung song (whatever he sings on Sonic Nurse, perhaps?) being something that Thurston had written almost completely. Dunno how much this applies in general.

wasn't there supposed to be a songy Lee solo album on Ecstatic Peace last year?

'unwind' is like a miniature 'diamond sea' w/o the ocean storm part, and i find that i listen to it more because its shorter. i'm now wishing i had voted thurston

Going with Thurston here.I prefer his voice.

But this isn't about best voice.I don't know.

http://www.co.fairfield.oh.us/dev/Companies/Images/TimelyProducts.jpg

whoever wrote all the poppy, uptempo songs on the comp jaymc made for me (i think it's thurston).

lee has been threatening a song album for a while now. i do recall some talk about it being very close and probably an e.p release, but id have to trawl through sy.com news to find it..unless thurston mentioned it elsewhere...

as for results, no surprise. lee is often cited as the songwriting favorite by fans, but perhaps only because he sings, and thus presumably writes, far fewer numbers. kids love their underdogs. plus his are a bit more sing-sungy than thurston's.

Lee is pretty much a one-trick pony though. So many of his songs mention the "city lights" or "city at night." Cliche, and he rarely contributes anyway.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/Ranaldo_Infinity.jpg

Justice has been served.

To what extent is it known who wrote the music for SY songs? I'm assuming whoever sings it wrote the vocal melody

I guess super-fans know cos it was mentioned in interviews or on fan-sites, but I know it's not necessarily who sings it, at least I read Star Power is a Thurston song.

thurston usually sings "starpower" live, at least he has on all the boots I've heard.

Fraud at polls.

So many of his songs mention the "city lights" or "city at night." Cliche, and he rarely contributes anyway.

-- Reatards Unite, den 15 maj 2008 03:52 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Link

lol this is true. Someone should edit them all together

I would have voted Thurston but it doesn't matter, the important thing is I thanks to this thread realised there's a new SYR out. Must check! Liked the Brakhage one quite a bit actually.