what happened to/what is the status of ye olde english folke rocke? like fairport convention/steeleye span stuff, you know?

or is this just stuff that only first-generation hippies could really do right?

(ok i also liked "run run away".)

i don't know that much recent stuff, but i can say men-an-tol have a very appealing take on it

http://www.myspace.com/menantol

i get all my current folk rock from folk metal and neo-folk/pagan stuff.

and there is always tons of ren faire/trad stuff around if that's what you like. some of that probably rocks a little.

(xxpost) huh menantol sounds interesting on first pass, some actual folk influence. it seems like one thing that happened past a certain point was "folk-rock" started meaning nick drake or cat stevens or whatever, the connection to older folk styles was kind of lost.

and there is always circulus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2OavLPpPVw

http://digitalseance.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/circulus.gif

i like some of the folk metal stuff i've heard. is there any of it with female vocals? i'm especially partial to that sandy denny/maddy prior/june tabor/linda thompson stuff, the british female folk voice is one of my favorite things.

you know, I was rereading Simon Reynolds' Blissed Out the other day and my attention was caught by this ridiculous sentence:

"And there's a hunger for roots: a sense of place, community and shared history that we British seem only able to experience vicariously, voyeuristically, in American roots music, or Third World musics..."

and my first thought was "why the fuck aren't you listening to Fairport Convention and Sandy Denny you fucking snobby dilettante?"

that said, I don't know how well that scene has played out now, 30 years later. Fairport are basically a fossilized trad group. I would love to be pointed towards something contemporary with the same vibe as early Fairport or Steeleye.

and what tipsy said about the VOICE, also.

i definitely give circulus an A for effort

http://www.underexposed.org.uk/circulus/circhoof3.jpg

well, i like the circulus flowing sleeves..

and definitely steeleye span and probably fairport (don't know their later stuff as well) eventually turned kinda hokey-jokey. but what's great about their earlier stuff is that it doesn't seem corny like that, there's a real love of the folk forms combined with some great acid-rock fuzz.

"and my first thought was "why the fuck aren't you listening to Fairport Convention and Sandy Denny you fucking snobby dilettante?"

you should read his essay on john martyn in marooned, it's great!

"is there any of it with female vocals?"

oh god yes. tons.

xpost

cool I will! I have yet to dive in to Martyn but I hear he's kinda like Roy Harper who I adore. Will investigate.

sleeve he's not nec so trad, but if you like Harper, start Martyn with Solid Air ( also great Junk Mix of that on the new Steinski collection). And since you do like Harper, I hope you know Kevin Coyne's Peel Sessions and his Case History Plus. New to me are Kath Bloom (excellent assortment on her current MySpace) and the freewheeling male-female quartet voices of Bodies Of Water. And fewer but strong male-female voices of Oakley Hall. And Charalambides, though I may be misspelling the the hell out of that.

And yall might check the Compass Records site, which is quirky but will give you worthies to Google; they're American, but have a number of good Irish some good Brits and a few Australians, like the Waifs, and I think they have the Green Linnet catalogue now too.

Plenty of the Mekons' stuff was influenced by this period.

beat me to it! I thought of them a while ago but I took scott's challenge and have been posting a ton so I lost track. yeah, they really are just fantastic a lot of the time and bring that same vibe.

dow thank u very much for the recommendations, I only ever had one Kevin Coyne record that didn't grab me. will try again.

yeah the mekons, that's a good point. i don't think of them as folk-rock but at least some of the time that's what they are.

i guess what i'm wondering is if there's some kind of hidden neo-fairport scene thriving somewhere. but probably not.

Kevin Coyne doesn't have anything to do with folk.

Folk-rock continued, it just wasn't hip anymore, and the people who played it weren't hip people, so hip people (like me and you) didn't listen to it. You've got that Oyster Band / Little Johnny England side of things, just not hipster-type people or hipster-type music.

Espers maybe?

For DJ Martian style completist mentalism try wading through this site for recommendations :
http://psychedelicfolk.homestead.com/Psychedelicfolk.html

or this :
http://www.theunbrokencircle.co.uk/

sposts The Waifs are terrrible.

xposts

Great as Circulus sound, I really wonder about the whole "lol 70s" costume ethic, like it's too campy and they're frightened to honestly commit to the music they're making.

"And there's a hunger for roots: a sense of place, community and shared history that we British seem only able to experience vicariously, voyeuristically, in American roots music, or Third World musics..."

I've been staring at this sentence, with growing curiosity, for a good few minutes now. Wonderin' 1) how it did't strike my eye when I read the book myself at the time 2) could this be perhaps the most sweeping use of the, ahem, 'royal we' on Reynolds's part, ever?
Yes, can't quite get past that "we British" morsel in there :)
Okay, 's easy for me to marvel at all this, at will & from a distance, but... uh, which people(s) exactly does Reynolds include in, and wants to speak for, there?

Oh. As per (tangentially?) the folke rocke topic - which of the Mekons recordings sound, er, folk-rockish? In a good way?

the best
http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/shirley.collins/images/largerec/noroses_crestcd011.jpg

Fairport are basically a fossilized trad group.

I saw Fairport as a trio last year. And while it's not the classic line up, they did some spacey jazz/Brit folk stuff that was downright intense. Awesome musicians/explorers. Could've taught all these freak-folkies a thing or two, if they weren't only listening to the old records.

i guess what i'm wondering is if there's some kind of hidden neo-fairport scene thriving somewhere. but probably not.

By the 80s its influences seemed to have dispersed. As Scott points out, metal soaked some of it up (which started with Zep). I'd say this was true of goth and 4AD dream-pop as well. You know some of them had to have been inspired by the more ethereal stuff a la Denny and Tabor. Then there's R. Thompson's influences on new wave, indie, modern pop rock, which is subtle but does go back to Fairport: Mekons, Waterboys, some Costello maybe. Then there's all the freak-folkies. Then there's the traditional scene which is still going strong; check out Waterson:Carthy and all those spin-offs. Then there's the neo-Clannad new age scene which dips into the goth/dream pop world. My mind is going blank in terms of names (sorry), but for a recent job I ran across several that were really carrying the flame in some modified form. My prediction is some of these freak-folkies will get older and eventually merge with remnants from the dream-pop, goth and new age offshoots. Then they'll all get together for annual festivals and what-not.

Well, this certainly fits the description of contemporary English folk rock in the Fairport tradition. As for the lyrical sentiment... hmm, see what you think.

Roots - Show Of Hands.

There's also Seth Lakeman, of course. His new album Poor Man's Heaven comes out at the end of the month, and he's gone quite electric of late.

I've been listening to a lot of Spirogyra recently (not 80s fusion band) and while definitely more progressive and rock&pop-leaning, Barbara Gaskin's got one of the sweetest voices of the 70s folk ladies. Of course, it is balanced out by Martin Cockerham's proto-David Tibet crooning.

I was going to mention Show of Hands earlier, but they're more of an acoustic outfit, less rock involved

Kevin Coyne doesn't have anything to do with folk.

Tom, I'd agree that Coyne has little to do with English folk (which, I know, is the point of the thread). American folk (blues, etc.), however, yep.

While I prefer the Mekons' world-view and music (an interest in cryptic signifiers and fun), surely Billy Bragg in some ways fits the bill (despite some tedious sloganeering)?

She's all folk and no rock, but I'd like to hear some more stuff by Bella Hardy. I'm very taken by "Three Black Feathers", which is just so beautifully sung.

Biggest disappointment: Benji "son of John" Kirkpatrick. Nice playing, awful songwriting.

And I take it that everyone's up to speed with Bellowhead? English folk with a Brecht/Weill big band feel, with a line-up that includes the totally-ace-in-their-own-right duo Boden & Spiers.

Laura MArling would be a good bet for folk rock with female vocals: http://www.lauramarling.com/index.php

Oh yeah, that Bella Hardy track is on my muxtape if anyone's interested.

Laura Marling is good stuff, and there's some interesting music coming out of what appears to be something of a burgeoning new acoustic underground scene (according to my mate Stuart, who has become quite immersed in it of late): Lupen Crook (although he's gone more electric with the recent Murderbirds album), littlelostdavid (some intense, almost fado-tinged stuff here), Michael McLinn (fey boy with a harp, but nothing like Joanna Newsom, thank God).

See also Drunken Werewolf magazine:

http://drunkenwerewolf.livejournal.com/
http://www.myspace.com/drunkenwerewolf

You guys, seriously, Shirley Collins is the only answer to this question. The "rock" album (No Roses) is a good gateway drug, but the rest of her work is a monumental leap beyond the seriously cheeseball stuff out there tagged with "folk." She is the real deal.

It's a thread about folk rock

Well then listen to No Roses. It is great.

Preaching to the converted, fella

yeah i need to stock up on some shirley. she's one of those names i know without knowing her music. emusic has a compilation that looks promising.

It's not folk rock, apart from "No Roses", it's folk

There's also the Fence collective/ King Creosote and associated acts, which hasn't been mentioned yet. A lot of the acts playing Green Man in this and previous years are in this bracket.

plus, the original question is "what happened to..." No Roses is vintage, from back in the day.

well i'm up for any classic stuff i don't know or haven't gotten to. but yeah, especially curious about contemporary scene/lack thereof. which it sounds like is scattered to the extent it exists.

(what is green man? a festival?)

The Eighteenth Day of May
Kate Rusby
Saint Joan
Sharron Kraus and friends
The Drovers
Cordelia's Dad
Ché-Shizu
The Big Huge
Amps for Christ
Winter Flowers

Tudor Lodge and Heron are still around and kicking it ye-olde-schoole style.

As per Neils comment, I think the most trad stuff around the Fence side of things would be James Yorkston. The recent-ish collection of ep's & b-sides (Roaring the Gospel I think it was called) would be a great place to start, and includes a fair few very nice traditional folk songs (though I don't know any of this stuff in it's original, or earlier, form).

Kevin Coyne doesn't have anything to do with folk.
The guy used to have Kevin Coyne's name in his email address, so I think we should take his word for it.

Sleeve mentioned liking Roy Harper, so I figured he might like Coyne; and yeah as somebody pointed out, it's (an idiosyncratic no money Briton's)take on/use of American trad forms, so folk-rock of a kind(no not folk, but that's not the point of the thread). Somebody listed Kate Rusby, who's one of those brought out in America by xpost Compass Records; and they've also got (mostly Irish and Irish-American)Solas' Reunion (CD/DVD, bonuses on latter) All present, most past, maybe some future members live in concert (with guests who prev. augmented studio albums too). Some modern material in the manner of, but also like UK trad x Bo Diddley beats, etc. http://uweekly.com/newsmag/08-02-2006/3474 Also ye olde Public Radio show Thistle & Shamrock can be good sometimes.

out of curiosity, did the u.k. trad-folk revival sort of roughly mirror the countours and timeline of the u.s. folk revival -- late '50s to the late '60s or so? or was there an existing scene that didn't need to be "revived" in the same way?

Where are they now? In some cases they're alive and well and hiding in plain sight. Linda Thompson's most recent album, Versatile Heart is really very good, but most certainly did not get the attention it deserved when it was released last August.

i really like that album (it was on all my top 10 lists). best thing she's done since leaving richard.

Saint Joan

These guys broke up. Boo, shame. They were awesome. Ellen is still doing stuff, though (under the name of Ellen Mary McGee).

Cordelia's Dad

These guys were American. Though at least one of them lives in England.

These guys were American

as are The Drovers, Amps for Christ and Winter Flowers; Ché-Shizu are Japanese. but the spirit of English folk rock is (or was) strong in all of them.

sad to hear about Saint Joan. got to meet them last year. lovely people, great band. i'll have to check out Ellen's solo stuff.

Yeah, I thought some of the others might be too, but I'd only heard of Amps for Christ out of that lot, and didn't know enough about them to state unequivocally.

The Joan are friends of mine - they're all carrying on with music in some form or other. Ellen's myspace is here

i dug saint joan, but never really considered them that folky - though i only have the first single and album..

that "fatal flower garden" song ellen mary mcgee does is a variation of a child ballad, steeleye span did it as "little sir hugh." (originally an anti-semitic song, but that's gone from those versions.) i like her voice.

This album sometimes steps a bit gingerly, but gets bolder (and man, talk about some stories in song):
"Honest Jon's Records presents a tribute album to UK folksinger Lal Waterston, with tracks specially commissioned for this release. Lal Waterston was a member of The Waterstons, a key 1960s precursor of Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span. Migrating Bird features 19 different voices from different decades and countries..." Does this mean some tracks recorded in different decades, that not all were "specially commissioned"? Maybe yall recognize some of these cuts from days of yore:
1. King Creosote "Fine Horseman"
2. Nancy Elizabeth "Cornfield"
3. James Yorkston "At First She Starts"
4. Victoria Williams "Red Wine Promises"
5. Lavinia Blackwell and Alex Neilson "So Strange Is Man"
6. Alasdair Roberts "The Bird"
7. Michael Hurley "How Can I Leave?"
8. Danny & The Champions Of The World "Wilson's Arms"
9. Charlotte Greig "Her White Gown"
10. Jeb Loy Nichols "Stumbling On"
11. Adrian Crowley "Never The Same"
12. Richard James "Memories"
13. Willard Grant Conspiracy "Phoebe"
14. Sabbath Folk "Dazed"
15. Lindsey Woolsey "Song For Thirza"
16. Richard Youngs "The Welcome Sailor"
17. The Memory Band "To Make You Stay"
18. Mark Olson "John Ball"
19. Vashti Bunyan "Migrating Bird"

interesting! I have never heard of those Hurley or V Bunyan songs and I have most/all of their stuff, so I think those are indeed "special commissions."

I was just thinking about this post-punk era band called The Dancing Did awhile ago (I'm considering putting up a single by them on my post-punk blog) and then I noticed Mutant Sounds had their album up on his site and realized from the review of it there that it would sorta fit in with this thread. Here is the link.

that band is AWESOME! I have only heard bits and pieces of that album and hadn't caught the olde folke influence.

Well it always seemed to me they were just extremely BRITISH sounding or ENGLISH specifically...but I never connected it with something like Fairport in my mind until now.

But yeah I guess it does sound like music that came from a long, long time ago. And I wasn't into Fairport at the time I got into them anyway.

... and don't you think that Sudden Sway single, "Me Says Conscience", has a kind of capering, Morris-Dancey feel too?

out of curiosity, did the u.k. trad-folk revival sort of roughly mirror the countours and timeline of the u.s. folk revival -- late '50s to the late '60s or so? or was there an existing scene that didn't need to be "revived" in the same way?

Yes, in a way, but I think the US folk revival predates it, Ewan MacColl started broadcasting his radio programmes in what, 1957? Late 50s seems to have been when it started to grow - post skiffle, CND + all that. There was an existing trad. folk scene but not many young people were interested in it, not many people were interested in it. In Ireland and Scotland, there was more prob. interest in folk music, but in a slightly stuffy, gentrified way.

See Lal Waterson hasa been metioned, I love the Bright Phoebus album http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bright-Phoebus-Mike-Lal-Waterson/dp/B0000549C1/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1213103791&sr=1-1

One of the best

Yes, in a way, but I think the US folk revival predates it, Ewan MacColl started broadcasting his radio programmes in what, 1957? Late 50s seems to have been when it started to grow - post skiffle, CND + all that. There was an existing trad. folk scene but not many young people were interested in it, not many people were interested in it.
I think this is right. My parents were big folk revival fans, and I know the radio ballads had a big influence on them. They still went on about them all the time when I was growing up, despite presumably only hearing them on the radio, 25 years previously. My mum learnt to play the guitar on the Aldermaston Marches. (She only knew peace songs! She taught me, so the first song I learnt was the Sun is Burning by Ian Campbell.) Interestingly, they were never into the folk rock side AT ALL, but maybe they weren't cool. (I ended up doing mummers' plays at Christmas in Totton and the New Forest with my dad and we'd sing wassail songs and pour cider on the apple tree in the autumn. Not cool.)

... and don't you think that Sudden Sway single, "Me Says Conscience", has a kind of capering, Morris-Dancey feel too?

Yes it does, actually! :)

Incidentally I was delighted to learn that Cherry Red reissued the Dancing Did album on CD last year with a whopping 12 bonus tracks!

Helen Espvall and Masaki Batoh's s/t (7/22, Drag City): mostly Finnish-based, and traces of other deep Continental songtrees, plus some of Batoh's colleagues from Ghost (but I seem to recall the Finns originally had an Asian connection too)--got the feeling also suggesting ancient trade routes as they pass through Britain: settlements wayyy in the forest, and you are there.

Sorry! HelenaEspvall, that is.

man I can not wait to hear that Espvall/Batoh collab, I didnt know they were actually gonna put a record out. I thought the Terrastock gig was just a one-off. Great news.

Belle & Sebastian???????

My dad used to have a Steeleye Span record when I was a kid. I don't remember him ever playing it but I played it once when I was by myself and it really weirded me out. I knew the name Steely Dan and was trying to figure out why their name was different!

I couldn't have possibly been older than 9.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl0RsfKP6zY

Lal Waterson and Oliver Knight's "Flight of the Pelican" is my mantra this week, gorgeous, seraphic.

This album Once in a Blue Moon is just devastatingly good