why do disco DJs fuck around w/ the EQ so much?

why do guitarists play guitar solos?

they all want to be theo parrish when they grow up.

when they slam the bass it hits harder ... i dunno what else there is to say. it builds tension when its all treble or the mid keeps shifting, which is kind of the point until they release. some dudes are shitty as fuck at this. theo parrish does a great job.

http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/vestax_s1.jpg

Personally, I'm really tired of the whole cut-out/filter rockin'-the-mixer thing myself, but obviously a lot of people still have a blast when DJs do this.

when they slam the bass it hits harder ... i dunno what else there is to say. it builds tension when its all treble or the mid keeps shifting...
-- deej

so basically what you're saying is that as great a track as "going up in smoke" is, someone needs to eq it in a way that gives it the same dynamics as a progressive trance record?

that doesn't make sense!

adds a little more of a modern house/techno dynamic to old disco records that dont have as many fx

xpost

but yeah it is not always a good thing to do

but larry levan did this stuff way back in the day *before* there was a modern house/techno dynamic.

and i doubt that it all comes down to bass drops.

but some dj's abuse the EQ *so* much that any potential tension is lost. richie hawtin is prime example here. give it a rest for christ sakes!

good point about levan.

most modern house/techno has tension-building fx/filters already written in to the track, so its easy for djs to go overboard riding the eq's

nothing else to do up there while you're watching the timer run down, might as well ride the EQ to pretend there's a reason for your presence other than that crate you brought with

or is this the thread where we kid ourselves that most DJs that really mix are actually picking shit to play next on the fly instead of using what amounts to a set list

All I know is that Joe Claussell made me prepared to dance madly to Rej again last month purely on the strength of his EQ-fuckery. It can make something pretty played out sound fresh again. I'm guessing disco DJs do this because back in the day they were picking up 1-2 new records every month so they had to get mileage out of the stuff they had...

Tombot, do you really think that's true? Please shatter more of my illusions.

no I'm just being kind of a troll, sorry

"why do professional athletes get paid so much they're just playing a game" I know I know

THE NEXT LEVEL

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q195/alleyzonme923/turntable.jpg

It can make something pretty played out sound fresh again

HOW

omg donut :0

i saw maurice fulton do this to a really long edit of... um that old philly soul track with the strings and the male singer over-emoting, "the music's getting stronger!" and stuff. sorry, don't know the name - anyway he did it over and over and i freaked, it was amazing.

HOW

Um, by making it sound different? Ask Joe Claussell...

i think it would be good to push a little harder, dig a little deeper. sure, by making it sound different. can we get into specifics here?

Just sticking with the tone of the thread...

Basically he was kind of fluttering the mid-range in a rhythm complementary but not identical to the beat so the riff could never quite kick, then unleashing it and whacking up the bass at the same time. Something like that. Just adding more 'tease' to the song...

i think 'tease' is key, reminds me of andy k's writing on 'shades of jae' here - http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:anfqxqualdfe
"a stupefying exercise in beat-teasing that indicates how Dixon often favors foreplay over climaxing."

i should really have better answers to this question considering my dad was quizzing me on the same thing when we listened to a parrish disco mix the last time i visited him --

i would say that in parrish situation, and when guys are doing a good job throughout the record and not just doing the bass drop out trick (which imo gets pretty good mileage even w/ 'amateurs' if its JUST a standard slamming -the-bass trick and not overdone) part of it is freaking the natural dynamics in a way that is exaggerating what is already there, bringing out certain sections of the record in ways which complements the original sound and style; 'going up in smoke' is a great one (altho my view might be distorted cuz i first heard it in that parrish mix) beacuse of how many different changes it seems to go thru (this is based on my memory of it and not a glance at the sheet music so im kind of talking out my ass but) - its not one that relies heavily on a sort of sheer trance-like (as in putting-you-in-a-trance, not Trance as a genre) repetitiveness, so it gives a lot of opportunities to build and release within the piece. 'talk to my friend again todayyyy' is a perfect transitional statement so i hear, in my memory, him shifting dynamics at that point.

Theres also something fun added about the improvisational aspect to it - hes throwing this out there on the fly, and also the willingness to have fun with/distort these old records is kind of a who-gives-a-fuck that seems to add something to the party vibe id like to think

a lot of this stuff is conditional on whoever's doing it doing an actual good job

so it gives a lot of opportunities to build and release within the piece

call this compositional eqing

actually im thinking about now that long, extended trance-like sections can be fun with this too - i remember hearing someone spinning the extended version of 'dont leave me this way' (the harold melvin version) and they kept dropping out the high hats during the looooong instrumental section and then bringing them back in for maybe eight counts (tap-tap-tap-tap-tap-tap-tap-tap) then dropping them out again, it kind of builds up as a pattern in your brain that doesnt actually exist in the song but gives dancers something else to 'think' about

(dropping in, then out, then in, then out again and again)

it's a tension/release tactic. i think it can also work to highlight certain lyrics/riffs by diverting attention from the kick drum/bass line. for example, cutting the bass at the "i can't kick this feeling when it hits" line in 'i want your love'

this is basically my favourite thing ever

xposts

"cutting the bass at the "i can't kick this feeling when it hits" line in 'i want your love'"

this also proves your corny moodyman stan status

yeah thats a good call with lyrics, mids are also good cuz the horns seem to be there, or thats where the record's 'presence' is, melodically, so pushing those up for a really sweet melodic part is <3

Sure there are genuine reasons for this, but Tombot's trolling is partly on the mark. What would they be doing if they weren't tweaking eq? Just standing there?

chatting up chix, drinking, rejecting/pretending to take/actually taking requests, answering boring questions about equipment from hangers on, flipping through disorganized records to find the next one

poll thread

'networking'

finding record sleeves that were thrown back in the stacks, left on a surface somewhere, or are being used as a coaster

fucking w/iphone

thinking bout stuff

The great thing about French house was how it all came pre-EQd - "here's one we prepared earlier." For someone like me who has enough trouble just beatmatching (I run out of time just trying to sync up the bpms! No possibility of networking) it's a great help.

replacing flashlight batteries

rockin a tasty head-bob move

feeling uncomfortable

dancing i'd hope

beard maintenance

stops them thinking about cigarettes.

cheap dj tricks

bad dub

Not sure if moonship was asking a more subtle question underneath, but I do think we will see a time when the filter-EQ phenomenon in dance music will fade out and then cease when we least expect it -- at least for a break.

Sure, it's a long tradition of DJing, but not all traditions from the genesis last forever. Some last longer than others. However, there are so many ways -- through mixers, through pedals, through special effects, through software, and various gear combinations combined to force that filter-EQ effect, that people are going to tire of it en masse. That's not the case now, but I do think it will fade out, and it will be at the hands of (most of) the artists and the DJs.

This leads into my personal thesis on how gadgets, the net, and technology has allowed pretty much anyone to be a DJ, so there will be a flood of new artistic ideas in the context of DJing that will be occurring -- and allowing for the big unexpected things that usually happen.

I'm not sure the fade-out of filter-EQ-ing will be a good thing, honestly, mainly out of fear of what might replace it.

1st time I saw this was @ a JA soundsystem gig in SF in 82. There were a lot of bass drops, hard pans, taking the needle off just before the record peaks with the DJs taunting the crowd. It was a bit corny but it really upped the energy level.

Unfortunately like the fist bump (terrorist jab) it's been taken up by a lot of people who don't know wtf they are doing.

jemaine doing a faux lowpass filter on his own voice in that one episode where brett gets a job should have been a wake-up call

"someone needs to eq it in a way that gives it the same dynamics as a progressive trance record?"

this is exactly backwards, but nice troll!

the bass drops out for 2 minutes as the dj works every bit of emotion out of the beautiful midrange. then there's a percussive build and the bassline comes back in.

^^ tiesto or the idjut boys?!?

It sounds good when you are on drugs.

please don't make me choose! ;)

maybe the answer is that proper eq tricks simulate sex.

xp, hah.

the bass drops out for 2 minutes as the dj works every bit of emotion out of the beautiful midrange. then there's a percussive build and the bassline comes back in.

^^ tiesto or the idjut boys?!?

-- moonship journey to baja, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 1:38 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

or levan or rahaan or ...

It's great if you can take advantage of a proper sound system. I remember a circular shower of high range tweeters arranged above the dancefloor at the Roxy in NYC around 1990, and whenever they'd only leave those on the effect was instantly mind-buggering.

i was thinking about this and it's almost like it's become a kind of homage especially with digital dj-ing tools. more like something that dj's "just do" because it's part of the dark and mystical art of dj-ing. mwahahaha. i do like that eq tricks are kind of a minimal/universal technique regardless of the tool.

the sheer range of things you can do to digital music with digital tools is kind of breathtaking. and don't some of them have their standard/classic/canonical tricks already?

all i know is that when i am mixing and i find two songs that blend together where eq tricks heighten the tension or the uh, transitory nature of the blend (like dropping the midrange on one track, it makes some sort of third song), the combination gets filed away in the dj-ing section of my brane.

this being ilm we should turn it into a list thread of songs that have shout outs to cut the midrange and drop the bass and such

those moments on theo parrish mixes where he cuts the eq for many minutes at a time are pretty much classic in my book. it's like this swaggering macho thing.

they do it because otherwise it gets really boring, standing there flipping through records. At least they're not scratching, right?

what is good about theo's eqing is when he will really just overdrive only the bass or mids and the track really starts to sound like a whole other beast. of course he stole his tricks from ron hardy! but yeah, it can be annoying when overdone or done by someone who knows what they are doing, but it is just one of the tools a deejay has to work with. i much prefer straight up eq to the pioneer mixer style filtering, that shit is wack.

"they do it because otherwise it gets really boring, standing there flipping through records. At least they're not scratching, right?

-- dan selzer"

if it gets boring, you arent feeling it enough. give up.

danselzercasm!

(at least I'm sure dan was being sarcastic. I've seen him spin, and he has the "holy shit, a pie is gonna fall off the conveyer belt soon! QUICK! PARTY!" vibe, which to me is what I value in DJs.)

i didnt mean "you" and in dan, i mean it as in anyone who deejays and is boring. i feel like his sarcastic comment is true for many deejays!

I feel like calling Vahid out on the (overused on ILM) notion that any resemblance to progressive house = automatic weakness.

Although he was probably just being strategic with that line.

"I feel like calling Vahid out on the (overused on ILM) notion that any resemblance to progressive house = automatic weakness.

-- Tim F"

it is true though.

cut the midrange....

any semblance to a pipecock post = automatic weakness

xp

why don't you move, damn it?

btw, where is that sample from? i know it from the house crew 'keep the fire burning'

i'm not saying it's weakness, and i prolly appreciate trance more than most of y'all.

i'm trying to say that if you have a real hand-wavey imprecise argument about "improves dynamics" then i would say "so does eq'ing in a trance track" and i think it should be clear that what happens in a trance track and what happens in a nu-disco track are very different.

obv I was joking around. But in every joke...there's a truth you know, and despite all my best efforts, believe it or not, there have been times when I've been bored while DJing.

Anyway, I don't ever use long drawn out subtle or not-so-subtle EQ sweeps, just a simple cutting of the bass and mids and bringing them back in at appropriate moments. I used to have fun doing it on Once in a Lifetime a lot, I'd cut everything and everyone would be all like "I love this song" and keep on with their drunken dancing with only the geekiest heads noticing how fucked it was and coming up to me to "tell" me that the EQ is messed up. I keep it like that for the entire first verses of the song until the first chorus after "well, how did I get here?" then I bring it all back in and I've literally seen people cry.

My fave disco song to do it was the break to Let's Start the Dance.

I try not to do it too much because I always realize I don't know the songs as well as I thought and bring the bass in like a measure before it kicks in, or cut it out right when it should be cut in.

haha, dan! been there! whoops, heh heh. keep on dancin folks. nothin to see here.

love doing it to a record I don't know so well but am so into that I'll mirror the changes in dynamics on the EQ as if I was re-producing it...