The usual anticipatory 'Years of Refusal' thread...

apparently it has leaked. how is it?

Usually someone gets hold of a copy, often an advance, and then they put it on the Web.

thanks but what i wanted to know was what people think of the album in case they have already listened to it.

Oh.

it's better than the last album, slightly, but also not very memorable. it just kind of sits there. I do like "it's not your birthday anymore" but honestly can't say anything that positive about anything else, except that this made me go back and listen to Your Arsenal for the first time in many years and realize that album is incredible by comparison.

usual diminishing returns story. forgot the value of a good tune years ago. well, last of the gang to die was a rare exception.

He's too old to blow his voice yelling over power chords.

good album imo

Lots of ambivalence in this here thread.

Maybe I just like Moz for different reasons or whatever, but this is easily his best, most engaged album since Vauxhall and his most energized since Arsenal. And his live shows these days are as good as or better than any other time in his solo career.

forgot the value of a good tune years ago.

CRAZY TALK

Christ this is boring.

I just put this on for the third time today. That's half because I'm in a Morrissey mood more often than most, admittedly, but it's also pretty freakin' good. "Best since Your Arsenal" is very much OTM.

Yeah, this is a great album - very energetic, as noted above. First of his recent "comeback" albums that I've been anxious to start over the minute it ends.

Fuck the doubters, YoR is great. I admit that I'm more or less on Moz's side no matter what at this point but this is his best album since Southpaw (or Vauxhall if you can't admit that Southpaw is awesome). I was/am so blown away by how much his voice has improved.

I can't take the guitars. terrible terrible guitars. I preferred the sound of the band back in 90/91. This is just distorted 'look at my dick' style guitar shit. It all went wrong with Your Arsenal.

Go cry, emo kid.

This is like the last two: a couple of good moments, neither here nor there mostly. Since Moz lives and dies by the non-entities he recruits to play guitar, he's a slave to arrangements, and sometimes he even forgets to write songs to go with them. This is a case of having decent songs and totally boring arrangements. At times he sounds out of breath.

Well, yeah. I'm one of those that felt that he got like he was trying to force a tune as soon as he went with the boz boorer/ alan whyte guys (and yes, it's all about arrangements). There's just nothing *intriguing" about the songs - all dull guitar bluster of a kind that, while admittedly sounding like few other bands, is endlessly forgettable. almost amazing how they do that...

"When Last I Spoke to Carol" is phenomenal, and the rest of it seems to my ears like a continuation of Tormentors, which I also loved. (This album could have used an "I'll Never Be Anybody's Hero Now," though.)

Since Moz lives and dies by the non-entities he recruits to play guitar

1. Johnny Marr
2. Vini Reilly
3. Boz Boorer & Jesse Tobias

Yeah, those guys are all pants.

I knew someone was going to do that. Vini Reilly is no Johnny Marr; he's a well-deployed vassal on those early solo recordings.

Durutti Column bores me, so I'm inclined to think his tricks best served Morrissey.

This album is just horrible to listen to. Morrissey having to shout above the pig-iron guitar din. Just not what his voice is suited to.

Hard to listen to this with it's chugging boring guitars and loud drums all the time non-stop. 'When Last I Spoke to Carol' is ridiculous, starting with those stupid drum cracks and then its auto-accompaniment rubbish.

Listened to "Ringleaders of Tormentors" (and it's hard to remember which of these silly titles is which - every time someone mentions "Years of Refusal" I have to think for a second, "Is that the new one or the one before?") after this one & always thought that was pretty mediocre & the shitty band etc but it sounds so subtle and classy now!

Durutti Column bores me, so I'm inclined to think his tricks best served Morrissey.

yu0 = dumba$$

It's Not Your Birthday Anymore is awesome! (beats everything on Quarry/Tormentors)

kenan and I must have the limited edition "good" version of this album or something. You're all crazy.

not to speak ill of the dead but jerry finn is one seriously horrible rock producer

Yah srsly. I have no use for him but RIP.

it's just vexing because the of the last three, the only one he had a decent producer for (ringleaders) he didn't have any decent tunes....then the other two have Major Label Modern Rock (TM) production courtesy of mr. finn

ok that I can't argue with. And I think a lot of the complaint about Moz's voice not being suited and guitar din and etc is a problem with the mix more than anything else. And I do hear that a bit -- a bit like he's caterwauling over everything. But it's not like the dude was ever Mel Tormé. I know what might annoy people about the voice and the mix, but I don't know what amazing things they would otherwise expect.

And yeah, jon otm, what album are you listening to that is so BORING?

i should listen again, i thought the songs seemed better than ringleaders.

i guess what i would not exactly EXPECT but would have been my ideal is...

the half of quarry that was brilliant, plus the half of this that seemed pretty darn good....produced by a good, non-macho LA choochbag protools junkie, like visconti or a zombie ronson.

And yeah, listening to this again right now, and I can see how some might have a problem with the production. It is a bit, thick, I guess. But when I look at Finn's other production work, turns out I love a lot of the pop-punk stuff he's produced, so maybe I'm just more attuned to his sound.

I mean, great albums (imo) that Finn has had a hand in:

Rancid - And Out Come the Wolves...
Jawbreaker - Dear You
Smoking Popes - Destination Failure
Superdrag - Head Trip in Every Key
Blink-182 - untitled

Lotta crap in there too...

i like rancid and jawbreaker. i just really have grown tired of how a lot of that stuff sounds....though the rancid doesn't feel as compressed and flat as more recent stuff, probably just because the whole industry has pushed that way since the mid 90s....

but you know, i am very near sick mouthy territory in my views about modern compression, mastering etc so take it with a grain of salt

That's true (re: push towards compression), I was just trying to work out in my head why the feel of the album doesn't bother me nearly as much as it does others.

sick mouthy and Metallica to thread thunderdome

Ok... people who find this record a soul-crushing slog through a rice field, what do you think of Mick Ronson-produced Your Arsenal?

I'm just trying to draw lines, because this seems really contentious. If you like Your Arsenal and not this, you may be a musician or producer. If you don't like either, you may just not like Morrissey.

oh c'mon Your Arsenal rules!

has it really gotten to the point where only "musicians" and "producers" can tell the difference between awesome 70s glitter/hard rock production and Angels & Airwaves?

also um you know, 10X better songs too

Just a theory, really.

He sang better too.

And yes, Your Arsenal does indeed rule. His best, IMO.

But goddamnit this record is really good.

See, I'm really glad kenan is so adamant about this, otherwise I would feel really lost. I'm enjoying the hell out of this.

aight i'mma listen again, see if it takes.

i didn't hate it at all though, just seemed "okay-ish" like everything he's done in forever (tormenters excepted which is WAY worse than the somewhat underrated malajusted IMO)

that's how people grow up

"...but where the President is never black, female or gay and until that day you've got nothing to say to me..."

America, you are now officially allowed to ask this man to shut the fuck up and retire.

Hm. This isn't so bad.

god this record is balls

god this record is currently £3 in HMV

this is very good album