Are your favourite records those which elicit the strongest emotional response?

we all know that all the E has made me unable to feel pleasure or pain anymore, but i'm gonna give a tentative yes to this one.

you're emo as hell nick. and i should know.

I think the emotion that most people like having provoked is "this makes me feel cool". Just check the "worst songs in the world" thread for a bunch of songs that make people feel nerdy (which is a perfectly valid reason to hate a song).

No! If a record brings out an emotional response, this can often be due to excellence, but often its due to said record being inextricably linked to fond memories or certain people. Also, I like cold records, a lot of the time. Black Box Recorder's "The Facts of Life" is a good example. Its icy and unemotional, but I love the cold eye it casts over relationships, sex etc. Doesn't bring out any strong emotional response other than delight at the excellence of the words and music.

Yr emotional response to a record can also be one of hatred or loathing, of course, so for me at least I think this isn't a v. reliable way of judging fave recs. And yeah, I'm one of those sociopaths who distrusts emotions, or at the very least EASY, preprogrammed emotional responses - eg. strings = melancholy, etc.

I prefer the element of surprise to something that is going to push my buttons so predictably and cheaply.

ah, but nick never made any mention of cheap and easy buttons being pushed. (although those are the easiest "emotions" to talk about because they're usually the most clear cut and we don't have to get into all sorts of noxious hippy-speak to root out the sources of these enigmatic feelings.)

[see there i go!!!]

and i think hatred - to be so worked up as to use the word hate - is a perfectly valid way to judge a record. me hating something means its making me "feel" more than 50% of other recorded media.

i think mark's "ambushed by unexpected emotions" thread may be a valuable tool here.

metal box/second edition is my favorite record, but it wasn't until laying on my bed one night a few years back - in the middle of one of the most confusing moments of my life - and being possessed by utter...fear? loathing? it was not a pleasant experience. at all. yet it's my favorite record.

Yeah you're right Jess, I sort've jumped the gun, and yr PIL example is a v. good one. But is boredom an 'emotional response'?

My first approach to music is totally emotional as well. And I don't like cold sterile records. "Amnesiac" is not an example here. It is very emotional, but on the grim side. It comes from the guts.

I am a big fan of Neil Young and Joni Mitchell whose songs are often very emotional. Sometimes their music sometimes gets too emotional and becomes schmaltz/kitsch. The best emotional music is the one which succeeds staying exactly at the border to schmaltz. Neil Young's whole album Harvest for example. Or "All Across the Universe" by Lennon.

i dont know if boredom is or not...it's a good question. taken as an across the board response to a given genre it might be ("hiphop just bores me")...it probably means theres something in your response to explore. someone releasing a mediocre album is pretty much a daily nonevent, so i'm not sure if boredom in that sense counts for much. i'd have to guess that 50-75% of music bores most people on these boards.

oh, and ilm is full of sociopaths.

I would say "yes" to emotional response. I think where I might stray from the ILM mafia is that I don't mind if it's completely obvious. If it effectively cuts a line right into my psyche, then I am willing to forgive a lack of innovation or complexity. If it's pandering to me and I bite on the hook, then so be it. I am a sucker.

Or don't have emotions at all.

Yep. This place is full of robots.

I'm using 'emotions' quite loosely for the purpose of this question I think. The iciness of 'Facts of Life' kind of counts (though I don't actually like that much myself as it sounds too obvious/contrived a vibe).

Of course people can try to push buttons in an unimaginative way with string arrangements that leave me cold (ha! but not in good way). I'm not saying my emotional response to records isn't mediated by the left side of my brain, cynicism, seen-it-all-before/I-can-see-the joins detectors. But when a record gets through all that, ooh. I'm probably more forgiving of old records in this regard.

This place is full of robots.

Hath not a bot tears? *weeps*

I trust emotions. I can't always trust being able to explain them vis-a-vis musical reactions.

Not the strongest emotional response. Actually, I'd say that most of my favourite records are those which I sleep to. If I can sleep to a record, I love it.

I think generally my reaction is not an emotional one, and I think the more interest you have in music or the more music you listen to the less emotional reactions you'll have.

I am beating this to death I realise, but "Lazy" was a major epiphany for me in that prior to it I had never connected so emotionally with a song. I'm not sure how to describe connections I do have, I suppose they're aesthetic.

Yes, my favorite records tend to elicit a strong emotional response in me, but I am suspicious of some of the music which does this. I don't always trust the fact that I am having this response. I might be thinking, "This is really pretty bad," even while being moved.

I appreciate when music expresses feelings I don't think I hear expressed elsewhere, or feelings which seems remarkable specific, but without any corresponding name. (Usual examples ahead.) Much of Sun Ra's most distinctive music does this for me. On the other hand, I also rely on some music in a more functional way simply too make me happy.

I think where I might stray from the ILM mafia is that I don't mind if it's completely obvious. If it effectively cuts a line right into my psyche, then I am willing to forgive a lack of innovation or complexity. If it's pandering to me and I bite on the hook, then so be it. I am a sucker.

Is that really the ILM mafia line, though? It seems to me that I have read a lot of defenses here for music which successfully works a particular genre or convention (not just for particular examples of that, but for the very idea of music doing that).

I think the more interest you have in music or the more music you listen to the less emotional reactions you'll have.

I definitely don't find that the latter is true. I would say that I have listened to a considerable amount of music in many genres (even if there is also a considerable amount that gets mentioned here which I haven't listened to), and I don't think it's blunted my emotional response to music. I consider myself interested in music, as well, but perhaps I could be accused of being less interested in music qua music than I think I am.

To pay attention to one's own emotional reactions is to take your focus off the work itself, and listen in the most subjective possible way; so it might be open to criticism along those lines. I don't worry about it too much. The fact that music can conjure up the feelings it does is one of the things which makes it so fascinating.

all my favourite records are in D Minor.

If the strong emotional response is hatred, the record will hardly be among my favourites. But I guess my favourites are mostly those which produce the most desirable and interesting emotions, though this is tempered by other kinds of stimulation, such as the intellectual, if we want to separate this from the emotional.

Actaully, now that I think about it--and it should have been obvious--there is much music which causes strong emotional reactions for me, but unpleasant ones. A lot of the easy listening stations that typically get played in offices include songs I find terribly depressing.

Is that really the ILM mafia line, though? It seems to me that I have read a lot of defenses here for music which successfully works a particular genre or convention (not just for particular examples of that, but for the very idea of music doing that).

Well, the notion of emotion over intellect isn't in opposition to the ILM mafia line *until* the discussion turns to indie rock. Then it's promptly taken out back and shot.

Oh heavens no -- it's taken out and shot only if it insists on its unique primacy. ;-)

My favourite records never elicit anything I can control and they change depending what I hear.

I realised recently that if I punch the air without too much coaxing then it must be good. If I stand or sit there trying to work out what I like then it is shit

going back to the hate-as-emotion point jess made upthread, what are some records that elicit enough irritation in you to count as favorite? i think it's an intriguing idea, but can't really think of one that applies to me. i don't think albums like, oh, metal machine music or black dice records, fall into this category for the people who would rank them highly.

MMM is pretty

"Well, the notion of emotion over intellect isn't in opposition to the ILM mafia line *until* the discussion turns to indie rock. Then it's promptly taken out back and shot."

In what sense? Not that I'm disagreeing but my memory is currently sketchy... If I were to guess I'd say it would be the idea of emotion enfeebled by intellect that would arouse opposition around these parts. But enlighten me.

"If I stand or sit there trying to work out what I like then it is shit" I completely disagree with this. Some of the best music is just humdrum on the surface and you have to Delve deep into to find what is likeable. That's why often music i don't like right away, I have to come back to and reconsider. As for emotional response to music, I would say my top ten favorite bands are for emotional reasons (usually sad, depressing, nostalgic or sentimental) and my second ten favorite bands are for intellectual reasons. (it makes me think, stimulates thought.)

What about everybody going on and on about holland-dozier-holland and motown? I think the real questions is: Do you distrust white emotional music, and instinctively look to black music to fill that void?

I'd say it would be the idea of emotion enfeebled by intellect that would arouse opposition around these parts. But enlighten me.

Geez, can't a guy make a sweeping generalization 'round here and not have to defend himself for it? Actually, to revise my argument considerably, I think the ILM mafia line is "emotional response requires innovation." (Not that anyone has probably said this outright.. but it seems to be the underlying thought process.) I'm just not as demanding on a freshness of sound in my music.

Now it could be that to much of the ILM mafia, certain genres have exhausted themselves. Which, as Tom often points out, has a lot to do with when you personally came to the music. For me (regarding indie rawk which I was trying not to name), this was only 5 years or so ago, so perhaps my ears are not as jaded and because of that I can still get some emotional resonance from the music.

I mean, it seems to me there are genres which are almost entirely backward-looking that can still produce some emotionally effective albums. And I think the lack of interest on ILM over genres like country and folk perhaps stems from that lack of innovation.

I don't understand the concept of liking something 'for intellectual reasons' that is somehow devoid of an emotional response. I suppose you can hate a song but still like the drum sound or the guitar sound - but then surely your response is still emotional in the sense of it being a physical (aren't emotions physical?) response to something that sounds pleasing. Or are we talking about liking the perceived intent behind something (while disliking the actual result)?

"I mean, it seems to me there are genres which are almost entirely backward-looking that can still produce some emotionally effective albums."

Totally. But maybe what is given primacy (at least by me, and maybe to a fault?) is music that is emotional in hitherto unexplored ways,. Songs that have affected me heaps from the past year (eg. "Digital Love", Superpitcher's "Tomorrow) don't do anything *technically* amazing, but their (very different) evocations of wistfulness are so individual that they stand out from any other wistful track I heard last year.

i like stuff that rouses my emotions, but i especially like music which does this in a subtle way... like say for example when you first hear something like "terrorist" by heavens to betsy, it gets you in the gut immediately, but the feeling doesn't last, it waters down with repeated playings. i much prefer stuff that creeps up on you, umm i'm trying to think of an example that isn't sleater-kinney but the only thing that enters my head is the song "hot rock".