rap music 1988-1995 vs. 1998-2005

so basically you're asking who is over 30?

1988 > anything

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Pyramix.gif

im more interested in the ten albums WHY to be honest, esp for those who are under 30 or those over 30 w/ unexpected taste

list 10 albums WHY

-- deej, Thursday, July 24, 2008 5:31 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

lol I'm over 30 and it's gonna look like I lick the ass of the canon but whatever 1998-1995

PE Nation of Millions
ATCQ The Low End Theory
De La Soul Buhloone Mind State
Geto Boys We Can't Be Stopped
Dr Dre The Chronic
NWA Straight Outta Compton
EPMD Strictly Business
Ultramagnetic MCs Critical Beatdown
Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique
Cypress Hill s/t

Nation of Millions
Death Certificate
Three Feet High and Rising
Low End Theory
Enter the 36 Chambers
Straight Outta Compton
Bizarre Ride 2 the Pharcyde
Doggystyle
Sex Packets
Life is... Too $hort
Paul's Boutique
Only Built 4 Cuban Linx

Cypress Hill
Critical Beatdown
The Great Adventures of Slick Rick (or is this '87?)
Strictly Business
All 4 One
Fruits of Nature

I can't even think of 10 hip-hop albums from 98-05 on a par with most of this stuff in terms of range of subject matter and stylistic diversity and amazing, unique production

I'm sure ethan will show up in a few minutes to tell me what an asshole I am and how I don't know anything about hip-hop tho

it's funny, looking through my itunes library I can see all kinds of shit in like 1994-5, like Illmatic and Wu and B.I.G. that more clearly point to what happened after 1995. But I suspect people who vote for the later period favor 1994-5 over 1988-93.

1998 - 2005:

Nas - Stillmatic (2001)
Jurassic 5 - s/t (1997)
Outkast - Stankonia (2000)
Blackalicious - Blazing Arrow (2002)
The Coup - Party Music (2001)
Dead Prez - Let's Get Free (2000)
Black Star - s/t (1998)
Dudley Perkins - A Lil Light (2003)
Immortal Technique - Revolutionary Vol 2 (2003)
va - Soundbombing 3 comp. (2002)

That was hard. I think hip hop is a genre better judged by it's singles than LPs, since most rap albums are at least 50% filler.

98-05! too drunk to do list but the real reason is that i'm young. i would worry for anyone of my generation who didn't pick 98-05 tbh

I'm 30 years old. 98-05 would maybe be a little more diverse production-wise, but I have to go with 88-95. I guess I'm old!

how old are you lex? you always talk like yr 17 or something...(just curious)

Albums from 88-95 are better cuz they are shorter.

96-97 was the best shit ever!

seriously though, like all of the NY hardcore i like (boot camp clik productions, beatminerz productions, M.O.P. etc) was all 93-98 or something, right?

i don't really like anything pre-91 all that much and my interest (bar a few things) sort of fades around the beginning of the 00s (post-early neptunes). i really think my favorite stuff is 91-97 or some weird slot like that. gang starr and all that too.

yeah and i'm getting old. sorey dudes. but there's tons of good new shit too. i ain't hating. it's just you know certain things hit you at a certain time and place in yr life.

slick rick - great adventures of...
EPMD - strictly business
kool g rap & dj polo - wanted dead or alive
biggie - ready to die
ODB - return to the 36 chambers
geto boys - grip it! on that other level
too short - life is...too short
nas - illmatic
bone thugs n harmony - creepin' on a come up
sir mix-a-lot - swass

my interest (bar a few things) sort of fades around the beginning of the 00s (post-early neptunes)

^^^ditto

for singles: 98-05
for albums: 88-95

im voting 98-05 bcuz i was sentient in that period

it's hard though. i could easily do just good of a list with totally different albums i just pulled those out of my ass on the fly

i dont think its even close for albums. my 10 for 98-05 period would look off the top of my head something like:

stankonia
the blueprint
lord willin
tha carter II
400 degreez
trap muzik
marshall mathers lp
chronic 2001
pretty toney album
college dropout

maybe madvilliainy or back for the first time or purple haze in there. get rich or die tryin and miss e... also

and how can we forget a grand don't come for free

maybe king instead of trap muzik. can never decide between those two

so i guess deej you should've had a transitional category for dudes

"the predator" 1992
"black sunday" 1993
"enter the wu-tang" 1993
"hard to earn" 1994
smif'n'wessun "dah shinin" 1995
ogc "the storm" 1996
"wrath of the math" 1996
"hard knock life" 1998
"dynasty" 2000
"warriorz" 2000

didn't put in "... so addictive" because that's r&b which maybe is a different poll?

on the flip i don't think singles would be close at all either

oh man i feel bad for fronting on BCC now. and the first jeru record.

this is impossible.

plus a lotta shit from j0rdan's list is awesome too.

anyway i guess the good thing is that you don't actually have to choose irl.

i do feel bad for lex though. man dude you are gonna be a mess mentally when you hit dirty 30.

as opposed to how he is right now?

im going with '98-'05 but really i want to choose like '93 to '99 or something

36 chambers thru life and times basically

I don't feel qualified to choose as my late 80s knowledge is v. limited. My 1998-2005 list would be:

Missy Elliot - Da Real World
Jay-Z - The Life & Times of S. Carter
MOP - Warriorz
Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
Wu-Tang Clan - Iron Flag
Foxy Brown - Broken Silence
Clipse - Lord Willin'
T.I. - Trap Muzik
Trick Daddy - Thug Matrimony
Lil Wayne - The Carter II

88-95
same albums as everyone else

im going with '98-'05 88-95 but really i want to choose like '93 to '99 or something

Straight From The Basement Of Kooley High
Straight Out The Jungle
Saturday Night The Album
The Cactus Album
Eazy Duz It
The Biz Is Goin' Off
Act A Fool
Cypress Hill
Mantronix The Album
Let The Rhythm Hit Em

And as far as singles are concerned, it's not even close.

I'm 30

36 Chambers
Bizarre Ride
Road to the Riches
Critical Beatdown
Fear of a Black Planet
Mecca and the Soul Brother
Great Adventures of Slick Rick
De La Soul is Dead
Check Your Head
Midnight Marauders

i was discussing this elsewhere and i dont know why we got stuck on 8 years but that was how it happened ... i prob should have done 88-97 and 98-2007 right?

i think 98-2007 would lose

if you guys want to pretend its 88-97 and 98-2007 thats cool, then its an even decade

88-95:
Cuban Linx
Infamous
Me Against the World
Ready to Die
Illmatic
Midnight Marauders
36 Chambers
De La Soul is Dead
O.G. Original Gangster
Straight Outta Compton

the Mantronix album is from '85.

Woops. Fuck it then, the one with Simple Simon.

i keep making lists and realizing how conservative my rap taste is

for all my fronting my lists contain the most obvious albums possible

haha i feel that way sometimes

moving back east has made me regress to my h.s. taste, all mobb deep all the time

oh fuck i forgot mobb deep :-(

maybe you should start! where are you, SF? i bet it's pretty good

in SF you can't go 5 blocks without losing radio reception. we do have KPOO in the east bay though, which is awesome.

lol, POO

one thing that might be worth mentioning here is the whole sample clearance thing...biz markie/gilbert o'sullivan etc...

the point being that a certain amount of sample complexity - like if you're talking the classic 3 feet high/prince paul or peak bomb squad or even paul's boutique - wouldn't be POSSIBLE anymore, whether or not techno type stuff and instrumentation would have gotten popular or not....a case where business concerns definitely impacted the future of the music...like the whole interpolation thing was just a cash move, but it maybe made the music evolve in a different way.

^^^yeah this really pisses me off to no end. the one time I can think of when an entire style of creating music was basically legislated out of existence.

i think another thing that sorta gets lost when yr relying on samples is that rhythmic complexity/syncopation became a lot more intricate when you didnt have to rely on samples any more ... james brown loops for dayz in the pre-o'sullivan era. 'keyboard beats' give you a lot more rhythmic freedom.

also, sampling certainly hasn't disappeared, and i don't mean on the "i can afford any sample" kanye/puffy level or the "im under the radar and won't get caught" dangerdoom level ... lots of big albums have samples that, rather than being about layering and making obvious references to older songs, micro-level sampling

and the other thing is that expanding into rave music or bounce music or whatever other keyboards was about expanding the palette ... its not like the same sounds don't get tired too. think of how tired the '03-era lil jon sound would be right now if ciara decided to drop "goodies pt. 2" or something

"Puffy" and "complexity" don't even belong in the same sentence together

I hate Puffy too but this is nonsense

ah you know jsut a little trolling to liven up the thread

i think another thing that sorta gets lost when yr relying on samples is that rhythmic complexity/syncopation became a lot more intricate when you didnt have to rely on samples any more ... james brown loops for dayz in the pre-o'sullivan era. 'keyboard beats' give you a lot more rhythmic freedom.

yes and no. if you're not a creative sampler or drum machine user, then yes. if you're micro-sampling, editing, tweaking, or adding synth percussion on top of sampled beats, then no. sampled vs synth is a red herring, when sampled can include synth within it.

the legality of sampling vs trend towards synth beats is a chicken/egg thing, no? But in addition to the legal issues, there's the simple fact that it's much more time-consuming and costly to search vinyl for samples.

yeah sampling is so much more costly and time consuming than composing and playing music

guessing you've never done either

not to mention that sampling IS composing and playing music

oh dag

i make beats, oops. i dont have a keyboard or any of that shit so everything i do is sampled on my pc, though i chop the samples up premo style so its kinda like composition. i get the tracks from encoded vinyl which i mostly copped from dollar bins. its a fuck of a lot easier and cheaper than buying a synth, learning to play it, and making original beats.

well there are easy and cheap ways and expensive and time consuming ways of doing everything, including sampling and playing trad instruments.

yeah but like as a broke dude who wanted to make beats that getting even the cheapest mannie fresh casio isnt really an option. i jack alot of bass/mantronix type shit tho so they sound like 808/synth beats even though its sampled.

i can get computer programs and synths easily and on the cheap/free, but scouring vinyl, getting the sampler i'd want, and meticulously cutting stuff up on outdated equipment would be far more costly, time and money-wise. so yeah, what some dude said.

"there's the simple fact that it's much more time-consuming and costly to search vinyl for samples."

More costly/time-consuming than hiring an entire orchestra (just as an example)? Beat-digging can be very expensive though, no doubt.

sampling producers that are constantly hitting up vinyl racks looking for obscure shit are like gearhead drummers that are constantly buying new cymbals, there are still a lot of people in both fields that just stay home and just keep trying to do new things with the tools they already have.

but you don't need to hire an orchestra, just pull up the needed synth patches!
synth: heavy initial investment, but then you're good to go
samples: easier to get going, but constantly have to scour the earth for source material?
i just have an (inaccurate) image of a synth guy sitting in his bedroom at his computer, everything sync'd up at the click of a mouse, all the needed sounds instantly available to him after an initial investment vs sample guy going on trips to nairobi and peru every other month.
xpost

Synth patch orchestra sounds don't sound quite the same as as a real orchestra though. Plus it's a bitch to program some of that shit, isn't it, so it doesn't just sound like some straight preset shit (serious question: I actually don't know)

sampling producers that are constantly hitting up vinyl racks looking for obscure shit are like gearhead drummers that are constantly buying new cymbals

some of whom are awesome drummers and some of whom are wanky musos, there's no hard 'n' fast rule on this kinda thing

steely dunn

Live instrumentation is more expensive than both sampling and, er, synthing. Sorry, not seeing what your point is, Alex?

I thought you were arguing in favor of using synth patches over samples and I was pointing out that using the former well is harder than just hitting a button (not that finding a sample is easy either.)

some of whom are awesome drummers and some of whom are wanky musos, there's no hard 'n' fast rule on this kinda thing

didn't mean to imply otherwise for a second! my whole point was there's rarely a consistent status quo about how people work with any genre/instrument, and the way they do work doesn't really correlate to the quality of their results.

for ex. Puffy spending a million dollars on a sample and the song still sucks

(sorry couldn't resist)

I'm in favor of using samples and synth patches and an orchestra and tin cans and blapping noises recorded on a tape recorder.

as long as it doesn't wind up sounding like slowed down rave music from '95.

I hope the next time someone drops a lazy Rachael Ray zing on you they post "(sorry couldn't resist)" right after

my heart belongs to the Barefoot Contessa now

people still crate dig? i figured in a era of microsampling it was pointless, you can clip up any old thing and get a 'hot break' where none really existed.

sampling seems more purposive rather than fundamental these days: "look at me basing something off this old clip you might know" vs "i need a beat". the economic/legal angle is important but in the end i don't know if it's a bad thing

big up slowed down rave music from 95, btw

I know what you mean, but I still hear about the bigger sampling producers (Just Blaze, Alchemist, etc.) frequenting vinyl shops and coveting rare finds, so I assume that whole aspect of the culture still exists for those who can afford it.

i'd just like to point out what a fuckedup youth obsessed culture we live in where being 30 elicits 'u old' responses.

go back to yr retirement home gramps!

'old' is a state of mind

george carlin has a real good bit in the last special he did before he died about how he's an 'old fuck' which is different from an 'old man' or 'old fart'

'old' is a state of mind

only the young say this. if an old person says it, the young people go "lolz yeah right you OLD"

old IS a state of mind, one that really has shit all to do with whether you prefer 90s or 00s hip hop beats

None of the young bucks like Devin the Dude?

I just checked him into my hotel about two hours ago. Got him to sign my copy of Just Tryin ta Live.

ie yes I am a big fan

i think the young bucks see those who prefer 80s-90s stuff as this guy and fear becoming or being looked at as the stereotype he represents:

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1109008/photo_01_hires.jpg

yes why can't he just enjoy Blueshammer like a normal person

boogiemonsters- "honey dips in gotham" did they have any other good tracks? i can't remember

the only boogiemonsters joint i remember is that overcoming threshholds of negative stress shit or whatever it was called.

so basically you're asking who is over 30?

-- carne asada, Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:33 PM (Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:33 PM) Bookmark Link

otm

I DISCOVERED BOTH PERIODS AT THE SAME TIME AND PREFER THE FORMER

deej have you sent this guy his medal yet.

THATS VERY FUNNY