TS: AC/DC vs. Fleet Foxes

...

Nate Dogg

Fresh strawberries

i'm white btw

All right, well, the subtext of the argument is kind of a debate about catchy "big dumb rock" vs. comparatively forgettable songs rooted in "literacy" and "subtlety." Just wanted to hear some thoughts on this.

my thoughts: ac/dc is better. never heard the fleet foxes.

ice cream vs. monster truck rally

further thoughts:

as a name, "AC/DC" sounds tough, like tools, but also bisexual, like sex.

"fleet foxes" just sounds like corny indie-rock infantilism. like naming your band "frog & toad are friends" or wearing halloween masks on stage or some dumb shit like that.

or dressing up like a schoolboy while you play your instrument

for some reason that doesn't seem corny, it seems cool. i wonder what the difference is.

i agree. but i don't really understand why either.

counterpoint: the fleet foxes was the name of a brigade from virginia in the civil war

counterpoint: history is for sissyboys

Knowing this changes nothing. The name is still twee, but now also tediously "significant".

xpost

...debate about catchy "big dumb rock" vs. comparatively forgettable songs rooted in "literacy" and "subtlety." Just wanted to hear some thoughts on this.

counterpoint:

Albert Clifford "A.C." Slater

Played by Mario Lopez, Slater is the token "jock" of the group. An army brat, he was an outsider, having transferred to Bayside in the first filmed episode (which aired later as a flashback). A. C. mentions that he has been to Bolivia, Italy, Iceland, and Berlin among other places. He becomes the school's star athlete, excelling as a wrestler and the quarterback of the football team. He is on the basketball team in one episode, even though the basketball season coincides with the wrestling season. Slater was originally written as Zack's rival for Kelly's affection before becoming Zack's best friend in the show's second season and developing an attraction to strong-willed feminist Jessie Spano. He refers to Zack as "Preppie", and when he starts dating Jessie, calls her "Mama". López is a drummer and dancer, and some episodes include Slater showcasing these "hidden talents." His father (a Major) appears in two episodes, but his mother, though mentioned throughout the series, never appears. He also has a younger sister named JB whom Zack briefly began dating, much to his chagrin. In the season 4 episode "Love Machine," his ex-girlfriend from Berlin visits and calls him by his real name, "Albert Clifford," AKA A.C.. In an episode from the college years, it is also revealed that 25 years earlier A.C.'s father changed his last name from Sanchez to Slater so he could get into the military academy. A.C. receives a wrestling scholarship to the University of Iowa, but ends up going to Cal U. During an episode in which Zack was dealing with Gem Diamond to purchase class rings, the AC was stated as meaning "abnormally cruel."

really? I would wager that 100% of them would grudgingly admit (if only in the privacy of their own minds) that there's no song FF have made that they would remember in 10 to 30 years the way they'll always remember "You Shook Me All Night Long" or "Dirty Deeds" or "TNT." x-post

I kinda hate to speculate about the contents of other people's minds -- especially in a way that seeks to universalize my own views.

res were you really talking about this in life? seems like the biggest waste of time

comparing a soft rock band with one album to a legendary arena rock band, what a great idea!

hidden talents

http://oberlin.edu/student/lfamular/headache.jpg

oh please louis

the jpg that will never die

Taking Sides: Rush vs Sophie Eliis Bextor

counterpoint

I kinda hate to speculate about the contents of other people's minds -- especially in a way that seeks to universalize my own views.

Different strokes for different folks.

res were you really talking about this in life? seems like the biggest waste of time

I didn't propose the argument. People were questioning my like for AC/DC, claiming that they were an artistically devoid group. I argued that taste is beyond logic and beyond justification, really.

bon scott used to play recorder in his pre ac/dc band, so he's no slouch in the twee dept.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpRaZ1ZghfQ

Every time Slater went for the cymbal I thought he was going to whap dude in the face.

Memo: Find old ILM 'Bon Scott was gay' thread.

neither thanks

ac/dc is smarter and better than fleet foxes.

hmm you don't often see AC/DC praised for their "smartness"

dude big balls wasn't really about having fancy parties in ballrooms, take a closer look....

Dude.

I'm now picturing the members of AC/DC relaxing after a gig, sipping hot tea, and relaxing to the "baroque harmonic pop jams" of Fleet Foxes.

doh!

that would be "listening" to the "baroque harmonic pop jams" of Fleet Foxes.

that's how it really is.

plus it's smarter to be a kick ass band and dumber to be a lame band

well, except the fleet foxes part. they probably listen to bach or something

"artistically devoid" sounds like one of those arguments a total pussy would make when trying to diss ac/dc

just sayin

my argument when dissing ac/dc basically boils down to nothing unexpected ever happening in their music. like, ever. with the possible exception of the bagpipe solo.

I mean they're just such a one-note band, you either dig that one note or you think its boring, and I'm in the latter category.

right. but you could argue the same about fleet foxes too. and the ramones, and about a million other bands too.

I would not say that about the Ramones and we can argue about it if you want

for one thing the Ramones had at least TWO types of songs: the goofy rocker and the sweet ballad. AC/DC has only one type of song. Ramones also had a range of personalities and songwriters in the band, made a weird album with Phil Spector (actually my favorite of theirs), wrote a bunch of lyrics that are totally left-field (about gay hustling, about Ronald Reagan, about uh, slugs...) Every single AC/DC songs is about one thing: fucking.

I could go on.

whoa, some are about drinking

haha

It just seems obvious to me that the Ramones are just so much weirder than AC/DC... and yet that is at least the second time someone has brought them up as a counter-example when I've cited the monotony of AC/DC's catalog.

poor Joey, so misunderstood.

Apparently the new AC/DC album features Brian Johnson writing a lot of the lyrics, so look forward to an update on the state of his balls.

Great thread

Apparently the new AC/DC album features Brian Johnson writing a lot of the lyrics, so look forward to an update on the state of his balls.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not since I would assume everyone knows Big Balls is a Bon Scott song... or maybe you're implying that Scott is somehow a more nuanced/more varied lyricist than Johnson (he probably is but we're talking pretty minor differences of degree here - there's no question Bon-era is better than Johnson-era, is there...?)

whoa, some are about drinking

and a lot of them are about rocking as well. come on. they are not a one-trick pony.

x-post

No, exactly as I said, I'd just heard that Johnson is writing a lot of the lyrics on their new one and that he's pretty interested in his own balls. And yes, Bon Scott was better, but it is all relative!

I'd say even the songs "about" drinking or rocking are basically about fucking. seeing as how their main lyrical conceit is the double entendre perhaps it would be mor accurate to call them a two-note band haha

x-post

Scott era >> Johnston era overall, but BIB is a strong contender for their best LP.

ok, fine. but they do what they do well, and are highly respected for it. i understand why some might be bored by this apparent and continuous repackaging, but to criticize them for doing that well is like someone who doesn't like hamburgers criticizing In'N'Out for its limited menu. In'N'Out is probably the best fast food burger place in the country. They focus on their burgers for a reason, and their customers like it that way. Jack in the Box by comparison has a huge, unfocused menu with egg rolls and jalapeno poppers and fucking mozzerella sticks, shit that's all over the board, none of it very good. AC/DC is like a well-oiled business that knows its core competency. Maybe that sounds clinical, but if you know what you want I think they will always fit the bill.

...the Ramones are just so much weirder than AC/DC... and yet that is at least the second time someone has brought them up as a counter-example when I've cited the monotony of AC/DC's catalog.

I mean, I understand your objection, but the connection by type between AC/DC and the Ramones seems both obvious and undeniable to me.

Could throw The Cramps in there, too.

I mean, I understand your objection, but the connection by type between AC/DC and the Ramones seems both obvious and undeniable to me.

I agree with this. Perhaps you can argue that lyrically the Ramones are more diverse, but on the whole, their catalog is remarkably homogeneous.

... you're your incredulity ...

Yeesh

yeah there is a single-mindedness w/all these comparison bands (Ramones, Cramps, Motorhead) that is undeniably similar to AC/DC's schtick, I don't deny it. And the InNOut vs. Jack in the Crack analogy is also probably apt (and funny)... still, I don't think its any coincidence that I am a big Cramps/Motorhead/Ramones fan and not an AC/DC fan... maybe its that those other three all ply a somewhat stranger, more unusual set of tropes, they seem unique in a more interesting way than AC/DC to me, whether its Cramps' bizarro amalgam of rockabilly gothpunk performance art or the Ramones bubblegum-on-steroids routine or what but AC/DC's schtick just seems more monochromatic to me. I mean its basically just Chuck Berry in overdrive - they would never do anything as unpredictable as, say, recording a song about a human fly with Alex Chilton, or make a z-grade movie with PJ Soles. Motorhead is perhaps the most like AC/DC but even there Lemmy's personality is so out-sized and entertaining I find them more engaging. (also they're faster, lolz)

hey, they did do a movie about killer automobiles with Stephen King.

This is the most one-sided Taking Sides in ILX history. Well done all concerned.

maybe its that those other three all ply a somewhat stranger, more unusual set of tropes, they seem unique in a more interesting way than AC/DC to me

this is all true, and on paper I strongly agree with your value system, yet I find AC/DC's focus on 'simple pleasures' and unpretentiousness very endearing regardless of how repetitive it may be.

"I mean its basically just Chuck Berry in overdrive"

I can see what you are saying and I would think that Angus Young would agree. In older interviews he seems to bristle in interviews whenever someone would bring up the term heavy metal. I think AC/DC learned early on what worked for them and just went with it.

I think the whole persona angle of The Ramones and The Cramps is kind of underplayed. Many of the early punk era bands took on alter egos, but I don't think anyone got it right or in a way that fit with their music as succinct as The Ramones or The Cramps. Other than Angus' schoolboy outfit, which really was more a play on him just being small and very boy like when they were starting out, AC/DC never really had that sartorial flare.

are the fleet foxes big, somewhere?

This year, I have listened to Fleet Foxes a lot more. No fair comparing any band to AC/DC circa Back in Black.

res were you really talking about this in life? seems like the biggest waste of time

I think the greatness of this thread has proven you wrong

Plus, talking about this in real life beats trolling forums about it like we are now

All right, well, the subtext of the argument is kind of a debate about catchy "big dumb rock" vs. comparatively forgettable songs rooted in "literacy" and "subtlety."

I don't really understand the choice of Fleet Foxes as the foil for AC/DC in this discussion. Their songs don't seem to me to be particularly rooted in "literacy" and "subtlety." Certainly not more than any number of other indie bands of the moment. AC/DC vs. early Belle and Sebastian I could understand.

man the AC/DC street team is in full force these days

Are they? I do see a lot of T-shirts...

;)

I don't really understand the choice of Fleet Foxes as the foil for AC/DC in this discussion.

right, it's not really them in particular; they were just brought up as a placeholder for any "we take ourselves seriously" band-of-the-moment.

lolz like AC/DC don't take themselves seriously

Then how about Dylan vs. AC/DC? Or Radiohead vs. Motorhead? Or Fleet Foxes vs. The Riverboat Gamblers? Something a bit less one-sided.

x-post (it's a different kind of serious self taking).

Or Radiohead vs. Motorhead

that would be...interesting

how does ac/dc take themselves seriously? they seem pretty regular guy schtick to me.

any band disciplined enough to maintain the same exact schtick for 30+ years takes itself seriously

Swinging like a motherfucker is schtick now?

Hey I just listened to Fleet Foxes for the first time today. I like it! I think "Thunkderstruck" or something would've been more appropriate at work (busy ass kitchen) but I intend to give it another listen tonite during the Bonging Hours.

Did someone mention Sol Campbell & his Chiswick Riverboat Gamblers?!

Although try to imagine a world where you could hear Fleet Foxes 20 times a day on every classic rock radio station on the dial and it's easy to imagine getting tired of them, whereas I have never, ever gotten tired of AC/DC, even after hours long AC/DC marathons.

In fact I will right now listen to "Thunderstruck" 20 times in a row and see what results I get.

My prognosis: lots of fist pounding, butt shaking, and a general aura of ass-kickitude.

when you look into the schtick, the schtick also looks into you

xpost

any band disciplined enough to maintain the same exact schtick for 30+ years takes itself seriously

-- Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, July 29, 2008 8:22 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this makes no sense to me at all. if that's how they like to be why is it "maintaining" anything. what do you think brian johnson is like on his days off? momus or some shit?

lolz like AC/DC don't take themselves seriously

they take KICKING ASS seriously!

Angus' hobby is to paint landscapes, while Brian's are to work on motorcycles and study military history.

Brian's are to work on motorcycles and study military history.

sounds like every suburban dad in the world

AC/DC was one of four acts invited to the mega "Monsters Of Rock" concert in Moscow--the others were Metallica, Black Crowes and Pantera. The concert was a way of thanking the youth of Russia, who stood up and stopped the military coup that took place there.

must have been a hell of a concert with the coup and all!

btw I fucking love AC/DC

further thoughts:

as a name, "AC/DC" sounds tough, like tools, but also bisexual, like sex.

"fleet foxes" just sounds like corny indie-rock infantilism. like naming your band "frog & toad are friends" or wearing halloween masks on stage or some dumb shit like that.

-- moonship journey to baja, Friday, July 25, 2008 6:21 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark Link

otm.

I think we are operating on different definitions of the term "taking themselves seriously". All I'm saying is any band that hews to a very strict aesthetic with such diligence and consistency = taking their music seriously. AC/DC's stuff is not half-assed or tossed off, it is constructed very concisely and very methodically. They do not "experiment" or leave in mistakes or shitty takes. They do not deviate from their template. That all equals taking themselves seriously, imho.

they are the Too $hort of hard rock in many ways (altho I like Too $hort more than AC/DC, I must say)

Then how about Dylan vs. AC/DC? Or Radiohead vs. Motorhead? Or Fleet Foxes vs. The Riverboat Gamblers? Something a bit less one-sided.

It's only one-sided if you are thinking in terms of music history and who are considered 'canonical' bands, and all of the things that go along with the sort of armchair academization of music; it was more of an argument about aesthetics, perhaps encapsulating the age-old conflict between the appeal of low-brow vs. high brow, how important external (popular or niche) perceptions are in choosing music, and all kinds of other bullshit that is too arcane and obscure to bother mentioning. I was just curious to see the respective arguments.

Canonicalness looms large, though, when talking about canonical bands, and that tends to overbalance the finer points of the debate. Career length and number of indelible chart hits does the same. AC/DC just have too many external factors stacked in their corner for the comparison to work on a "big dumb rawk vs. sensitive literary songwriter" level. You Shook Me All Night Long isn't just big dumb rawk, it's a timeless classic. That's why it makes more sense to compare Fleet Foxes to a new or short-lived, semi-obscure hard rock act -- someone with a comparable level of cultural impact.

fleet foxes vs. rye coalition

fleet foxes vs. drunk horse

fleet foxes vs. that one harvey milk record

I think time (3 months) has shown AC/DC to be the winner here.

Picking AC/DC for now. In a couple of years, when Fleet Foxes have proved to last, it may be that they are my pick instead.

Yep, AC/DC is the winner.

Nate Dogg

― J0rdan S., Friday, July 25, 2008 1:09 PM

OTM