REM downsized

And I was all "Did they fire Mike Mills?"

And I was all "Did they finally fire Michael Stipe?"

this story is getting a surprising amount of traction. i think REM was insane to think they could play a 75k capacity arena

R.E.M.I.P.

Peter Buck, who always seemed the most down to earth to me, was the only grumpy and almost rude one when they appeared on the Colbert Report. I don't know how that contributes to this thread but I wanted to say it anyway.

Michael Stipe: Cash cow or Evil Bitch

Haha I couldn't find a proper REM thread cos of the search function and figured this wasn't worth a new one. Like the story says they played that stadium a few years ago, as far as I was aware the turnout was OK

I'm tired of seeing Stipe's miserable, passive-aggressive lightbulb features glowering at me from the front of magazines.

I used to really love REM, now I wish they would hurry up and split, who even wants to hear a respun Lifes Rich Pageant in 2008?

I think when they played this stadium last time, part of it was sectioned off with a huge curtain, cutting the capacity in half.

I'm considering going to see them now they're playing the CIA, actually.

I wish they would hurry up and split

I think they wouldn't mind splitting themselves, but they still owe Warners assloads of money from that absurdly ill-advised 1996 deal.

I wish they would hurry up and split, who even wants to hear a respun Lifes Rich Pageant in 2008?

Me, but apparently not Welsh people.

I think they wouldn't mind splitting themselves . . .

What makes you say that?

. . . but they still owe Warners assloads of money from that absurdly ill-advised 1996 deal.

Why do they owe money to the label? Did their contract, for instance, include huge cash advances that had to be retired based on the success of their future releases?

Saw a good little documentary about Robyn Hitchcock and The Venus 3, which included Buck and Scott McCaughey, if that's how you spell it, and I think another touring non-member of REM.They seem to need those pretty bad. Buck claimed to be enjoying recording in Hitchcock's house and playing clubs, but made the point that he really liked that it didn't involve "the bullshit of my band, who I love, but--" mainly looked fat, middle-aged and not-pissed-off-at-the-moment, although I think he did laugh with the other troubdours some (may have gotten tired of the cameras and being interviewed however briefly). Anyway, it sounded okay, anybody heard the album?

What makes you say that?

Ever since Bill Berry left their records have been pretty forced and half-assed.

Why do they owe money to the label? Did their contract, for instance, include huge cash advances that had to be retired based on the success of their future releases?

Pretty much, yeah.

if they split, wouldn't the advance have to be recouped across rereleases, compilations and the like? if they really wanted to split, i'm sure they could.

Not necessarily...if they split while still owing Warners an album or two, they have to pay back those advances. I don't think advances are recoupable through reissues and comps (most likely there's something in their contract stipulating that the albums they put out have to consist of new material).

hey guys guess what, sara sara sara has no idea what she's talking about re: that warners contract. carry on.

the band will be paid a $10-million signing bonus plus a
$20-million royalty advance on future sales of its six-album Warner catalog.
The band is also guaranteed an estimated $10-million advance per album plus a
blue-chip 24% royalty on the retail price of each record sold--about $2.50
per record.

hey guys guess what, sara sara sara has no idea what she's talking about re: that warners contract. carry on.

I haven't had time to read through balls' incredibly lengthy, detailed, and complex refutation of what I've asserted (qualifiers like "I think" should have made it obvious that this is conjecture on my part), but I'm reasonably certain that advances have to be paid back (hence the term "advances"). If R.E.M. doesn't sell enough records, they owe Warners big time. The only amount they are absolutely guaranteed to receive unconditionally, by Binjominia's accounting, is the $10 million signing bonus. To the best of my knowledge.

I haven't had the heart to buy or even listen to the last two REM records (as well as the live record), but they have meant so much to me over the years that this story makes me sad. What were worldwide sales of the most recent record like?

Okay, to set things straight and simply put, if REM were to split tomorrow two albums short of their contract, there is nothing that Warners could do except re-sell/re-release the shit out of their back catalogue with best of's/box sets/live albums/dvds etc:

If REM remain unrecouped then it's just Warner's tough cheese, it's not a student loan.

whether REM has to pay it back or not this deal seemed foolhardy for WB in 1996 and lead to all sorts of problems, both for that company and the record biz in general, I'd argue. certainly big financial expectations can be a millstone around the neck of working musicians and all that $$ cewrtainly hasn't made it any easier for REM to weather the departure of Bill Berry and the shifting sands etc. that said, their last album was OK.

but i do think these 3 guys still have something together that they don't apart. what I've heard of Buck's side projects sounds utterly pedestrian and the idea of a Michael Stipe solo album is frightening to contemplate.

Yeah, but they seem pretty creatively spent, as a band or solo. And I think ''OK'' is about the best you can say about the new disc.

I haven't had time to read through balls' incredibly lengthy, detailed, and complex refutation of what I've asserted (qualifiers like "I think" should have made it obvious that this is conjecture on my part), but I'm reasonably certain that advances have to be paid back (hence the term "advances"). If R.E.M. doesn't sell enough records, they owe Warners big time. The only amount they are absolutely guaranteed to receive unconditionally, by Binjominia's accounting, is the $10 million signing bonus. To the best of my knowledge.

Well, wrong. Advances have to be paid back, but they band is not on the hook for them if they split. They are advances on royalties and are paid back through royalties ONLY. If the band never sells another record and owes $5 million, guess what? It's the label's problem, not REM's. This is sort of second grade record contract knowledge.

In other words, there's no financial incentive for REM to continue, except for the new advances they receive.

I don't think advances are recoupable through reissues and comps (most likely there's something in their contract stipulating that the albums they put out have to consist of new material).

Sure they would be, this is called cross-collateralization. It's almost impossible that each REM album would be considered a separate accounting entity - all of the debts from each of their albums is essentially one "pot" of debt. If an album makes more for the band than the advance they were issued, this extra money goes to pay off the money-losing albums before the band would see any. Again, this is basic stuff.

This new live disc of "rehersal material" is the best, most lively thing I've heard from R.E.M. since Bill Berry left. They deliver the material straightforwardly, but there's a tremendous kick and looseness to the performance that makes it fresh and charming.

I love the live version of Circus Envy.

almost tempted to hear this if it wasn't for the footage of michael stipe scrolling down his macbook.

i mean talk about the passion

their appeal is becoming more selective