The Clash - conventional wisdom

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Conventional wisdom has it that "Sandinista" and "Give 'Em Enough Rope" (the second album, is that what it's called?) are both very rub.

Do you agree?

― DV, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I heard Sandinista at a party once, and it was very enjoyable.

― DV, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

All Clash = rub, so yes.

― RickyT, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I liked 'Combat Rock'. If a band plots its development strategy on any grounds other than musical ones the results are less likely to endure. Primal Scream will find this out in about five years when nobody remembers who they were.

― dave q, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sandinista is fantastic - my favourite Clash album. They're moving fast - discovering stuff one day, using it in the studio the next. Obv that means that some of it is half-cooked and rough around the edges, but that's fine - who wants perfection. Dull.

Conventional wisdom is, for once, OTM about GEER. It's not up to much.

― Dr. C, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No, DV, I don't agree. Both LPs are fantastic - among the best of their era. And both are more interesting than the vaunted debut. (The doc is of course OTM about the diversity of Sandinista - the 69 Love Songs of punk!!)

― the pinefox, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

the 69 songs of punk

so.... it iz as bad az i thought.

― a-33, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You don't get many better starts to an album than the intro to "Safe European Home".

― Nick, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I was in love with the Clash from the first time I heard them, and the time I saw them on their first tour is still my favourite gig ever (as much because of stellar support from the Buzzcocks, Subway Sect and Slits as for the Clash). I remember buying Give 'Em Enough Rope on the day it came out, and being very disappointed with it. A couple of good tracks, but very poor. Sandinista is not devoid of decent tracks, but they're few and far between.

― Martin Skidmore, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

By "very rub," I'm guessing you mean sub-par.

Well, compared to, say, LONDON CALLING and the first album, they aren't quite as wonderful, but both albums still have much to recommend them, notably the afore-metioned "Safe European Home," "Tommy Gun," "All the Young Punks (New Boots & Contracts)", "The Magnificent Seven," "Lightning Strikes (Not Once but Twice)," "The Call Up," "Charlie Don't Surf," and -- personally speaking -- my absolute favorite Clash track ever (even though it's a cover), "Police on My Back."

Hard to argue with that stuff, I feel.

― Alex in NYC, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

not for me, heh

― mark s, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I am starting to wonder if Joe Strummer ran over mark's dog or something.

― Nate Patrin, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No, it just means that, like me, Mark S wisely finds more of interest from Gary Numan's albums at that time than the Clash's. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Wisely"?

― Nate Patrin, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

So do I, and haven't even heard them.

― Kris, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I like "Protex Blue", though.

― Kris, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ned, ov course = 100% korreckt! The Klash = get that dreary old cobblers off & put "Crossing the Red Sea w/the Adverts" or better still "Cut" on instead.

― Norman "Strummah hatah" Phay, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

joe strummer refused to have sex w.my dog

― mark s, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

So, uh, is it pretty much safe for me to put the Clash on my list of "stuff everyone on ILM but me hates" next to Beck*?

*actually I think ethan likes Beck, too, which is ironic and scary since I think we're supposed to be enemies or something

― Nate Patrin, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

NOTE TO SELF: Pay more attention to threads. Some people posted to this thread saying they like the Clash. Me=stupid

― Nate Patrin, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I have the first album. I don't listen to it. "Garageland" isn't bad. What's so great about it?

― sundar subramanian, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Cars" is better than anything by the Clash, BTW.

― sundar subramanian, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Anything that I've heard by the Clash, I should say. I haven't heard most of their stuff.

― sundar subramanian, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Cars" is better than anything by the Clash? That's like saying Jackie Chan is cooler than El Santo. Or that apples kick oranges right in the ass.

― Nate Patrin, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

― Kris, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hiccup.

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~dwilt/santowc.jpg

― Kris, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

For this, Kris instantly rules.

― Nate Patrin, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oops. Well, you can never post that picture enough, I say.

― Nate Patrin, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sandinista is one album that the CD format has rescued. On vinyl the weak moments could make listening to the whole thing an ordeal.

― J Blount, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

So why can't you compare Jackie Chan and El Santo? They're both essentially stuntmen with personality. And I certainly prefer apples to oranges.

― Kris, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Apples to oranges - you're fucking crazy!

― J Blount, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i LOVE beck!! but i HATE the clash!!!

― ethan, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The best Clash track by far is "This Is England."

― Justyn Dillingham, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The Cars were better than Gary Numan

― dave q, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think 'Bank Robber' is quite good, but that's probably down to Mikey Dread's presence. I had dinner with Mick Jones once, e woz orroight. But I agree that The Slits were infinitely more interesting. The Clash were the Primal Scream of punk: all adolescent politics-as-pose and rock-as-religion and skinny machismo. Da Scream and Da Clash both wanted to be Da Rolling Stones (another band I'm kinda shruggy about) but never wrote anything as lovely as 'As Tears Go By'.

― Momus, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd say "The Card Cheat" comes pretty damn close.

― Nate Patrin, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

("Straight to Hell", even closer.)

― Nate Patrin, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

'Lost in the supermarket' is affecting in a way most Clash records could never be. Too much boys-own beligerence, strutting and street posing. Momus is on the money. Very overrated.

Is Topper Headon still in prison?

― stevo, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The Clash have never done anything bad. They had the best styler, attitude and most importantly songs. u have never lived till u have heard the debut English album. garageland and 48 hours will never row old

PURE PUNK ROCK

― Tim Drew, St Just, Thursday, 16 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

PUNK vs PUNK ROCK

― a-33, Thursday, 16 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

A-and the primitives COVERED "as tears go by" which makes them >> the clash!

― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 16 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ten years pass...

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-clash-premieres-at-cbgb-festival-20120706

Anybody see this yet?

― curmudgeon, Monday, 9 July 2012 19:12 (thirteen years ago)

to their downward spiral after their legendary Shea Stadium concert in 1982.

This show is frequently referenced without mentioning that the Clash weren't headlining; they were opening for the Who.

― Chuck? Chuck? It's me, your cousin, Marvin D (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 9 July 2012 19:19 (thirteen years ago)

old-ilx views on the clash are unfailingly hilarious and infuriating

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 9 July 2012 19:24 (thirteen years ago)

do we really need a new clash documentary every 5 years?

― Jamie_ATP, Monday, 9 July 2012 19:31 (thirteen years ago)

First 3 tracks of Rope among the best they ever did

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Monday, 9 July 2012 20:12 (thirteen years ago)

Rope is still the only proper Clash album I cannot get into.

― to welcome jer.fairall, pie is served. (jer.fairall), Monday, 9 July 2012 20:22 (thirteen years ago)

give 'em enough rope is fuckin ace. it's not my #1 clash album but it's the only one i like every song on.

― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 9 July 2012 20:54 (thirteen years ago)

Sandinista > The Clash > London Calling > Combat Rock > Give Em Enough

― mr.raffles, Monday, 9 July 2012 22:01 (thirteen years ago)

but...but... Sandinista > The Clash > Black Market Clash > Combat Rock > London Calling > Give Em Enough

― Neil Jung (WmC), Monday, 9 July 2012 23:41 (thirteen years ago)

I like BMC a lot, but I can't slot it into a > series, that's wrong.

'part from that, Mr Raffles list yep.

― Mark G, Monday, 9 July 2012 23:43 (thirteen years ago)

Oh, and by BMC, I mean the three 10" version.

― Mark G, Monday, 9 July 2012 23:44 (thirteen years ago)

Sandinista>London Calling>Combat Rock>US version Clash>Rope (sorry, Safe European Home!)

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 9 July 2012 23:51 (thirteen years ago)

Love Black Market Clash so much. Even the covers are awesome. And whenever the Clash poll rolls around, "The Prisoner" is definitely going top 10 for me. Maybe "Bankrobber" too.

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 02:53 (thirteen years ago)

And Give 'Em Enough is a long way from my favorite, but plenty good. I spent a few days last year listening to nothing but "Julie's Been Working for the Drug Squad."

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 02:54 (thirteen years ago)

I forsee "Gates of the West" in my top ten, at the very least.

― Legendary General Cypher Raige (Gukbe), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 02:55 (thirteen years ago)

BMC is soooo dope. Didn't feel right ">" it though!

"Safe European Home" totally one of their best. I still like Give Em Enough loads, it's just... last.

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 02:57 (thirteen years ago)

glad to see the (relative) love for Combat Rock. Always my favorite, front to back.

I was gripped by that deadly phantom...

― broom air, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 16:20 (thirteen years ago)

Oh, and by BMC, I mean the three 10" version.

didn't even know the existed. I only got one 10"!

― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 16:25 (thirteen years ago)

these

― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 16:25 (thirteen years ago)

I'm pretty sure Give 'Em Enough Rope/the Cost of Living EP is the thing they ever made, but I'm a rockist asshole so what do I know.

― Everything You Like Sucks, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 18:25 (thirteen years ago)

*best thing they ever made, I'm an idiot

― Everything You Like Sucks, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 18:26 (thirteen years ago)

Would tend to agree with you but...

― ratso piazzolla (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 18:29 (thirteen years ago)

I may go see the new movie doc on its one-off for now Saturday showing in W. DC

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 18:36 (thirteen years ago)

Oh, and by BMC, I mean the three 10" version.
didn't even know the existed. I only got one 10"!
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 16:25 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, it's called "Super Black Market Clash", sorry had assumed that was the one being talked about.

Main difference is that the original "Capital Radio" is swapped for the remake.

― Mark G, Wednesday, 11 July 2012 10:28 (thirteen years ago)

Actually, the main difference is the loads of additional music, but you knew that, right?

― Mark G, Wednesday, 11 July 2012 10:28 (thirteen years ago)

Saw the new Clash movie doc, "The Rise and Fall of the Clash," directed by Spanish director Danny Garcia.

The movie should have just been called the fall of the Clash. Its focus was on the management issues--Bernie Rhodes dictatorial style, drummer Topper's heroin addiction, Mick Jones' habitual lateness and love of spliffs and the rock star life; and Joe and Paul's decision to bring Bernie back and let him him run things. So you get extensive interviews with the later period guitarists that were brought in and the drummer. The director uses some obscure Don Letts footage and has a Mick Jones interview. Paul, Topper, and Bernie would not agree to be on film. A longtime security guy and Pearl Harbor are interviewed extensively. A fair amount of detail on the changes to Combat Rock (from Mick's desired 2 albums to only 1) and the failure of Cut the Crap.

― curmudgeon, Monday, 16 July 2012 13:49 (thirteen years ago)

The movie was not that good but interesting to fanatics. Not enough explanation or subtlety re how the negativity took over.

― curmudgeon, Monday, 16 July 2012 14:34 (thirteen years ago)

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