The Girls Aloud singles poll

Prolly Wake Me Up, for me.

I'm gonna go with the canon and vote for "Biology". I'm guessing it'll win by a landslide, but I'm doing this mainly to see what comes in second, third place.

yeah i had to go biology

I really didn't know that was the canonical choice

been there done that
Best Girls Aloud Single

Oops, sorry. Can't believe I missed it, I did a search!
Well, at least this one includes the "Tangled Up" singles.

Tangled Up singles are crap compared to their others.

"The Promise" worries me. Sounds like a ballad :(

except sexy! no, etc. which is their best single to date, obviously.

"No Good Advice" or "Long Hot Summer" (which grew on me massively over time) - but if they'd released "Singapore" as a single I woulda gone for that.

whole lotta history

it's about the only one i still want to listen to ever

i actually kind of hate girls aloud at the moment though so never mind...hate the way the third best british girl group of the decade has somehow become the canonised one, and their hack songwriters are still being venerated despite the huge huge creative rut they're in

Just can't get excited or even boringly interested by them any more. The world's sort of moved on and both GA and Zeno have got stuck.

correction: "Xeno"

"Biology", though "No Good Advice" is classic too.

I vote "Love Machine" on knee-jerk instinct. "Can't Speak French" is fucking horrible, so Marcello and Lex probly otm.

"No Good Advice" is classic.

First post. Hello.

Most of the first 10 or so are different levels of classic. Things tail off quite alarmingly after that...
I went for Biology.

I really wish that they'd released Graffiti My Soul as a single.

I had to stop posting on the PopJustice boards due to all the sycophantic Girls Aloud bs. I love the girls but the way in which they are venerated there is sickening. Glad to finally see another person thought that Can't Speak French was crap. TEAM SUGABABES LOL

Anyhoo, voted for Love Machine, although Biology is a fave (the Tony Lamezma rmx is sick). Fave album track is "Models," which would have also made a killer video amirite?

TEAM SUGABABES LOL

2nded! there is no point in either of their careers at which the sugababes have not been miles better. mis-teeq at their best probably trump all, though. not their fault their discography was truncated too early :(

Where was all this mis-teeq love back when I was like the only person still checking for them in 2003 eh?

there is no point in either of their careers at which the sugababes have not been miles better

Wouldn't agree - I'd say that Sugababes can be better, but, over the course of their respective careers, they quite frequently haven't been. At their peak, Sugababes basically drop titanic bombs that knock pop music completely off its axis. They have done this time and time again over the past eight years. Mutya Buena in particular possesses one of the most incredibly characterful voices in British pop history. Unlike a lot of contemporary British pop (specifically I'm thinking of Craig David), prime Sugababes singles don't sound like they're chasing the game, but leading it, changing it, setting benchmarks that people can't even dare to follow.

And I'd say that, at their best, Girls Aloud do the same. I'm really, really wary of the kind of backlash that started rearing up when Tangled Up appeared - sure, it's not a great album, comfortably the weakest of their lot thus far. Too often, it's playing to the mainstream critics that have hung onto them (and Will Young) as an attempt to prove that they can like reality TV pop, to prove that they have discernment, that they aren't afraid to be different, that they have really tried very hard, y'know and aren't just gonna go sweeping stuff aside without thinking - and fuck yes I've been guilty of that in the past, certainly, and I might well still be if I ever fucking wrote anything anymore. But I still think that a lot of their stuff holds up today, and holds up very strongly indeed - I've voted for "Sexy! No No No...", cos it came on the iPod the other day and sounded amazing, proper vicious cutting edges and switches and twists...

Anyway, I decided to go comparing and contrasting their respective careers in order to see to what extent lex's assertion holds up. Youtube embeds will follow for the highlights - others can embed the songs I miss out if they see fit.

September 2000: Sugababes release "Overload":

Composers, as listed on AMG: Keisha Buchanan/Mutya Buena/Siobhan Donaghy/Felix Howard/Jason Lipsey/Cameron McVey/Paul Simm

Yes, it really was eight frigging years ago. Weird to note just how much of that song is sung by Siobhan. In common with a lot of what I'm about to post, you could drop that into today's top 10 and you really would not think it's from the better part of a decade ago.

December 2000: Sugababes lunge for the Christmas market with "New Year", whose chorus ends

Since you went away
A year ago

At Chris-muuuuus

April 2001: Third single time - "Run For Cover":

Keisha Buchanan/Mutya Buena/Donaghy, Siobahn/Lipsey/Cameron McVey/Paul Simm/Sugababes

It hits number 13. At number 12 that week - Lil Bow Wow's "Bow Wow (That's My Name)". Today, it's one of the best singles of their career; at the time, its chart performance suggested a band about to die very, very young.

And things are about to get significantly worse.

July 2001: "Soul Sound" gets to number 30. I have just heard it for the first time, here. Dear God but it is dreadful - possibly the closest they got to doing A Siobhan Donaghy Single, not just in terms of what Siobhan would do later (this is not to say that Siobhan's solo career would ever be anything like this shit, btw) but also because Keisha and Mutya's voices get twizzled together into some kind of not-chipmunk-but-horribly-close background trill, squishing anything resembling individual character or personality clean out of them.

Still, no, Girls Aloud didn't exist then, so technically the Sugababes were still better.

July 2001-May 2002: Sugababes are dropped by their label, Siobhan Donaghy leaves them via a bathroom window in Tokyo, they pick up Atomic Kitten reject Heidi Range...

INT. NIGHT - a BEDROOM somewhere in deepest darkest SHEFFIELD. A BEARDED MAN WITH OVERSIZED SUNGLASSES (poss. Simon Callow if available) finishes splicing "Freak Like Me" over the top of "Are Friends Electric?", then goes to bed and dreams of PHIL OAKEY.

INT. DAY - the offices of Big Bastard Record Company. FLAT ERIC goes to the website of the BEARDED MAN and plays his splicing, or "mash-up". He begins nodding along furiously, then picks up the phone and plays the song down the line to:

GARY BUSEY (chomping a cigar): I'll get on that straight away.

EXT. DAY - GARY BUSEY drives to SHEFFIELD in A BIG FUCK-OFF TANK, clutching a picture of the BEARDED MAN

GARY BUSEY: Come to Poppa.

(fade)

May 2002: Sugababes release "Freak Like Me" (George Clinton/William "Bootsy" Collins/Hanes, E./Loren Hill/Gary Numan/M. Valentine). It gets to number one. They are instantly transformed from the little engines that could into OPTIMUS FUCKING PRIME. Listening to that on a CD on a proper stereo for the first time fair blew my bloody socks off. Right from that first switch flick and the power-up noise that starts the song, Everything Comes Alive - all the lights come on, every bloody colour you can imagine, and the girls' performances... to pick just one moment, Mutya's delivery of "Just for me" is tough, unapologetic, rapacious, incredible. It's a monumental record, and some would argue one that British pop hasn't equalled since... (I'm half-tempted to agree, but that would involve, y'know... deciding)

Youtube won't embed it, though.

August 2002: Which is odd, cos it's quite happy to embed this:

Keisha Buchanan/Mutya Buena/Coler/Cooper/Cowling/Brian Higgins/Hofmann/Pflueger/Powell/Range/Rino Spadavecchia/Stecher

Their first Xenomania single, their second number one in a row. In spite of the circumstances in which it happened, it suddenly seems impossible to argue they weren't better without Siobhan. For some reason, I can't imagine this without Heidi's peculiarly haughty trill - Siobhan's ethereality just wouldn't have suited here.

November 2002: So, having got a reputation for setting the pace, it's third single off the album time. Which means it's time for a ballad. Hello, "Stronger":

Keisha Buchanan/Mutya Buena/Cornelius de Fries/Howard/Lipsey/Range

The big problem here is that it's worrying close to establishing a template. Keisha gets to ad-libbing all over the outro. Heidi does the middle-eight. Very slow string sections hold notes for ages, in the manner of Toyota launching a new five-door executive saloon. It's not terrible by any stretch, but one month later...

December 2002: This happens:

Miranda Cooper/Niara Scarlett

I'd not heard this in a while, and the fuzz and twang on the guitars - they very nearly appropriate Dick Dale, you know. Now, after Pulp Fiction, he's hardly an obscure reference, but for a UK girl-band... but then, does that just mean we're dealing with diminished expectations? To phrase it that way suggests so, but no - it's so cutting, so confident, so... classy.

"but for a UK girl-band" - this is gonna be a major crux for this, I suspect. A lot of praise for Girls Aloud seemed qualified by this, and that's because of Popstars: The Rivals. Lest we forget, this and "Sacred Trust" (and, yes, "Cheeky Song") were the records that were making a mockery of the sanctity of the Christmas number one (I remember myself getting extremely het up about this at the time). This record was not supposed to be any good. That it not only didn't suck but was as good as it was...

Then compare with Sugababes. I remember reading about them in NME's ON section back in 2000, which boasted that "There will be no miming from Sugababes". Right from the start, they were given the hype as being classy, talented singers. This was before Hear'say and reality TV pop had even had a sniff of the UK charts (Sheena Easton isn't quite the same thing). For them to produce good singles was expected - demanded, even.

And it hits me that I haven't mentioned Mis-Teeq at all. Cos to go making these sort of statements requires proper evaluation. And, well, when Mis-Teeq were at their peak, I HATED them. I was busy being a 17-year-old boy and listening to XFM and buying the NME and having embarrassingly huge crushes on Sarah Nixey and Chan Marshall. Lots of other kids at school rather liked Mis-Teeq. It was the same when I started uni. This, I deduced, was because THEY WOULD NEVER UNDERSTAND ME GOD DAMN IT. So, y'know, Mis-Teeq were not something I was into, and I don't feel confident knitting them into this. Quite apart from anything else, I've forgotten the name of the one that wasn't Alesha or Su-Elise. If lex or anyone else wants to, then please do. The thing with them is that that brings in garage, which needs bringing into any story of 00s UK pop.

(I am starting to think I have a book in me o daer GODDDDDD)

March 2003: Actually, feck it, let's bring Mis-Teeq in now, cos it's at this point they drop their big one:

Dixon, A./Hermansen, T.E./Mikkel SE/Nash, S./Hallgeir Rustan/Washington, S.

Selina Washington! That was it, yes. The thing about Mis-Teeq, it occurs to me, is the extent to which they followed the older-school template for girl bands - the one who carries most of the singing duties (Selina/Barlow/Ronang/Filang), the "rogue element" one who takes lead vocals sometimes and suggests danger, creativity, flirtatiousness etc. (Alesha/Robbeh/Stephen Gately's Eyebrow/Brian McFadden's Parka), and the one who stands with them, fills up the stage a bit, backs up the chorus but otherwise doesn't seem to do much of anything (Su-Elise/Howard & Jason/any other member of Boyzone and Westlife). Mark Owen doesn't fit this template, no. Good old Mark.

This had increasingly become usurped by the pack singing style, where everyone has to bring something to the table and take lead duties - the Spice Girls seem a key example of it, and this style persisted with Sugababes and, to some extent, Girls Aloud (though they kind of straddle the two styles a bit...). With Mis-Teeq, though, Alesha was that much of a rogue element that their more trad set-up kind of got overlooked - her voice was that gruff and her expression was that strong that she blew them clean out of the water. What's really weird is that this song was ruddy HUGE - they'd got this high up in the charts before, but never made such an impact - and they only had two singles left in their career.

It was kept off number one by Gareth Gates & The Kumars, btw. At number three that week:

Jesus but ...Presents His X-Factor, Vol. 1 is a brilliant album. We should maybe bring in Lib X too, but arrgh, too long already, and GA have only had one single so far (Dom - poll this chart. Now)...

Earlier that month, Sugababes released "Shape", a solid-yet-dull ballad sampling Sting's "Shape of My Heart".

Craigie/Dodds, K./Miller/Sting

Actually, it's better than I remembered. I'd forgotten the bits where they start scatting.

May 2003: Craig David releases "Rise & Fall", a solid-yet-dull ballad sampling Sting's "Shape Of My Heart" but with Sting on the chorus. The resulting confusion means that Craig's people put out a remix featuring Fallacy to UK radio instead, giving Fallacy his lone taste of UK top 40 action. Unfortunately for Falz, every single DJ in the country continues to announce it as "Craig David ft. Sting". Did Falz get any tantric sex out of this? Somehow, I fear we will never know.

Guess what I'm using that as an excuse to post.

uh-huh.

Girls Aloud release this:

Miranda Cooper/Brian Higgins

which is comfortably better than both, possibly because they've not run their "dirty (any noun, any noun at all)" meme into the ground yet, and as such Cheryl's affirmation that she has "no need to count those durr-dee sheep" is still kinda mind-boggling. In the good way. "SOTU" expanded upon, they sound like they're aiming for the gosh-darned stratosphere. Those synths twinkling in the background... heavenly.

July 2003: Return of Siobhan:

Siobhan Donaghy/Cameron McVey/Paul Simms

It wobbled into the top 20 then wobbled out. Two albums down, this remains her only top 40 hit.

Mis-Teeq do a pretty decent job following up "Scandalous" with "Can't Get It Back":

Bellevue, Hernst/Dixon, A./Joseph Freeman/Gravatt, Aubrey/Theodore Life/Salaam Remi/Marlon Williams

August 2003: Girls Aloud release "Life Got Cold", which sets out the template for their future endeavours into the world of desperately trying to release a half-decent ballad. It is alright-ish. It makes the classic British pop mistake of having a classical guitar in the intro.

So, on the principle that you're only as good as your last single, Mis-Teeq are actually ahead.

Then:

October 2003: Sugababes release "Hole In The Head":

Keisha Buchanan/Mutya Buena/Nick Coler/Miranda Cooper/Brian Higgins/Tim Powell/Heidi Range/Niara Scarlett

Yes, that was five years ago. In the chronological list of number one singles, it comes before Westlife's version of "Mandy", Michelle McManus and Sam & Mark, anything ever released by McFly or Akon or Brian McFadden, Band Aid 20, "Call On Me", Steve Brookstein, "Like Toy Soldiers", "Lyla", James Blunt...

Is it better than "Life Got Cold"? Yes. And who was it that came up with it? Xenomania. They used to know there was more to life than flat guitar noises, really they did.

November 2003: Girls Aloud respond to the throwing down of the gauntlet by putting out... "Jump". It is not better than "Hole In The Head".

Mis-Teeq proceed to blow it spectacularly with "Style". They like a man with a hip-hop style. They like a man with a drop-top ride. They are suddenly rather boring. They reach number 13 and, er, that's it. For them. Forever. This, seems exceedingly harsh to say the least.

December 2003: Sugababes get hurled into the mad slaughter of the December '03 Christmas number one race (the last one before the X-Factor) with "Too Lost In You". If you remember "Stronger", this is the same. Keisha ad-libs over the outro. Mutya sounds incredible. It is not better than "Hole In The Head". It reaches number ten, Gary Jules pips the Darkness.

April 2004: Sugababes put out "In The Middle". They're caught up in the middle. Jumping through the riddle. Falling just a little. It's rubbish. Give Mis-Teeq this - Alesha's rapping is on an entirely different planet to Keisha's. (Let's not bring Nadine Coyle into this)

July 2004: Suddenly, it's Girls Aloud's turn to get all "DONE DONE IT AGAIN, Y'ALL":

Miranda Cooper/Cowling, Lisa/Brian Higgins/Tim Powell/Jon Shave/Xenomania

Kept off number one by Usher. Youtube does not accurately convey just how fucking huge those synths sounded the first time, and how fucking huge they still sound. This was properly the beginning of Girls Aloud as mentalists. Some might say this was the beginning of the end, too - one of the big problems with Tangled Up is it gets too cute, fucks about too much, hasn't got any tunes, just relies on The Cheryl Tweedy Wink (TM) to blind people to that fact. "Black Jacks", for instance, would be brilliant if not for that bloody "NEW! YORK! NOTHING!" bit in the middle - yes, yes, you've eaten your own hype, marv. The thing is, "The Show" does still work, because "The Show" is an utter brute. It takes that spirit, that exuberance that they've traded on to the point of near-bankruptcy now and shoves it in your face VERY FUCKING HARD INDEED. Girls Aloud have subtleties about them, and this song is no exception, but it's the sheer rudeness of the thing, the violence almost, that makes it unignorable, unstoppable. It's pop as an exploration of possibility. It takes dance, pop etc. and bends them out of shape, blows them up... it feels like something is fucking happening here and we are not sure what it is but it is rather fucking awesome It is not perhaps up there with the finest Sugababes singles, but it kicks the shit out of their non A+-game numbers.

September 2004: Sugababes put a single out, and one can only presume they marked it on the calendar as "Put single out", cos it's "Caught In A Moment". And it's alright. In any of their configurations, Sugababes are much more talented singers than Girls Aloud. The trouble is, a lot of their singles are ballads that sound very similar, and they can sing them very prettily, but they are also Quite Dull. They release more singles than they need too, and when they're not into it, it becomes fairly obvious they are not into it.

This was not yet a consideration with Girls Aloud, who this month put out:

Myra Boyle/Nick Coler/Miranda Cooper/Cowling, Lisa/Brian Higgins/Shawn Lee/Tim Powell

To borrow a phrase: THE DRUMS. THE DRUMS. THE DRUMMMMMMMMMMMMMS. Again, it's RUDENESS - the drums are pounding, elbowing, frenetic bastards. Indie bands could cover this, but it would not quite be the same - you need the backing vocals, the "oh!" punctuating everything (you could imagine Aqua doing a decent job here), the spring, the vitality, the sense of enthusiasm, enjoyment, fun...

I'm gonna have to stop here cos I've gotta go to work in a bit, but I think the question of "fun" is a big one to leave it on. Sugababes have put out a ton of very fun, very enjoyable pop singles, as have Girls Aloud. But Sugababes have never seemed much fun themselves. The concept of "fun" is a very confusing and dangerous one - how important should it be, here? Where do you draw the lines between fun and irrelevance?

Dear god but I've gone on a bit. Let's just note that "Chewing Gum" was also released in September 2004:

And thank God that I forgot to look and see when Rachel Stevens' various singles came out. (What was the last Richard X related thing to wind up in the charts? No, sorry, another thread...)

Oh. There's a maximum number of embeds per post, isn't there? Bollocks.

Missing embeds in order, so:

Stronger
Sound of the Underground
Scandalous
Being Nobody
Shape
The Groundbreaker
No Good Advice
Overrated
Can't Get It Back
Hole In The Head
Love Machine
Chewing Gum

Also, couple PSes - we should mention Atomic Kitten, probably; "Jump" isn't that bad, and was probably the best song in the top ten at the time, but then again I remember the second best one as being Shane Richie's version of "I'm Your Man", so suggest you don't go trusting me on that one.

At their peak, Sugababes basically drop titanic bombs that knock pop music completely off its axis. They have done this time and time again over the past eight years. Mutya Buena in particular possesses one of the most incredibly characterful voices in British pop history. Unlike a lot of contemporary British pop (specifically I'm thinking of Craig David), prime Sugababes singles don't sound like they're chasing the game, but leading it, changing it, setting benchmarks that people can't even dare to follow.

this seems extremely OTT to me. have they really been that powerful a pop force this decade? what benchmarks have been set?

Well, benchmarks is probably the wrong word - in terms of influence, they've had surprisingly little, but that might be the point - when at their very peak, they produce singles that sound like nothing else around, and continue to do so for quite some time afterwards. That is perhaps a more accurate way of stating it than, er, 'titanic bombs that knock pop off its axis' (it was 4am, I was kinda... giddy). I mean, 'Freak Like Me' - I'm struggling to think of any non-Richard X stuff that properly follows in its footsteps. Maybe "Beware of the Dog", but that's kind of awful.

The Show.

The Promise:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/X32SWxtwE8E&hl=en&fs=1";></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X32SWxtwE8E&hl=en&fs=1"; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Very 60s, very Christmas-time single, but...I don't really like it. I want to, but I don't. I wish Xenomania would stop trying to "progress" and just stick with whatever formula helped them churn out "Love Machine," "The Show," "Biology," etc.

whoops!

link

I like that. Nothing startling, but very pleasant on the ears and quite structurally interesting.

The fact that it's nothing startling is why it bothers me so much. When Girls Aloud aren't sassy and bitchy and fierce they don't rate with me at all. This is practically MOR.

Thank god! It's a fully written song that doesn't have chugging guitars in it! Rips off something in the chorus which is quite good, verses haven't stuck yet but overall, after Tangled Up this is a move in.. well, maybe not the right direction, but at least team Xenomania are stumbling away from the plane crash of their recent output. Maybe just below the middle of their singles output thus far.

I think it'll chart very well.

Did Fling ever get released as a single? M

no and it's a damn shame it didn't

They could easily have squeezed another single out of that album, Girl Overboard and Blackjacks wouldn't have been bad choices either.

I was a fan of "Control of the Knife". I remember reading in a Guardian article that it was going to be their third single, but I guess they thought "Can't Speak French" would be a better choice. CotK would have had a mad video though.

i'm amazed that anyone can hear that rip of 'the promise' enough to make any sort of judgment on it!

that'll be the single as mastered then. arf.

Thumbs up for "The Promise" from me (this is based on last night's radio play, not the rip). A return to the 'too many hooks, some abandoned half way through' style of "Biology", but sufficiently different to previous GA singles to stand out.

Really? This is nothing like Biology - very standard song structure for a Xenomania song, and all the better for it. It's got verses. It's got a pretty good chorus, and, what, a key change. I like it.

Obv the youtube is unlistenable but there is a pretty good radio rip around.

I was thinking in particular of the opening riff, which is abandoned half way through. I was expecting it to come back at the end. ISTR it's the third or fourth 'subject' that dominates the second half.

Just heard it on radio for the second time, and now firmly in the "Yes" camp. It's got a lovely rhythm to it, kind of a hyper-unreal burble about the thing.

I'm liking "The Promise" as well. It sounds very familiar and as Edwardo points out, it's ripping something off (Marvin Gaye, maybe?) in the chorus. I feel like I should know what it is, but I still can't put my finger on it. It sounds a bit melancholic too.

I've just realised what it's reminding me of!

It's "Come Sing Me A Song" by Sing Sing.

Except I think there's something more specific about said rhythm... and now I'm thinking "Juxtapozed With U". But surely not...

i've just discovered a high quality promo stream in my inbox and you know what, i ~really~ don't care any more. just can't be bothered with it yet! you need to get over this group, people, they aren't important any more...scraping around to find vague positives about a mediocre pop song is kind of pointless compared to listening to amazing pop where a million positives leap out at you.

yeah, "the promise" is fairly grim. there's a whiff of the nolans about it. shame.

i've not seen much high praise at all for any of their stuff lately so any backlash just feels too late already. also think it's OTT because it still feels easier to like (if not quite love) their recent stuff rather than hate.

compared to listening to amazing pop where a million positives leap out at you

fine except nobody seems to agree now on what this amazing (or indeed mediocre) pop is now or why it is or who is making it.

lex, what did you think about "Girls"? Not the Sugababes' best work but it is a sure #1.

i like 'girls' a lot, final judgment not reached yet though - i like its breezy insouciance w/hint of reggae a lot when i listen to it but it's not a must-play-on-loop type. yet! sugababes have a knack of putting out lead singles which underwhelm initially but sneak into your heart and stay there forever (GA are basically the opposite) (and this is really why sugababes are the better pop stars) (CAVEAT: the chorus of 'girls' is the laziest thing since um the chorus of ll cool j's 'baby', which is also nevertheless a good pop song)

(i've had half a reply typed up to will's mammoth post upthread for a few days now and i'm obv not going to finish it ever, sorry! but i will say this: "fun" = hugest red herring ever. all it seems to mean is that the song is louder/faster/shoutier/completely lacking in any sort of subtlety. it doesn't seem to bear much relation to "enjoyable", when it's used sometimes. sugababes have always sounded more poised than GA, which is another plus point for them.)

(the 'girls' video is great, too)

fine except nobody seems to agree now on what this amazing (or indeed mediocre) pop is now or why it is or who is making it.

I LIKE TO PLAY MY BONGOS IN THE MORNING

also god stevem i'm not repeating the gazillion amazing songs i've been spreading this year yet again! ain't my fault if y'all don't keep UP and prefer instead to devote your energies to this.

oh yeah i also meant to say that the reason sugababes are better isn't cuz they have more "titanic bombs" than GA - i don't think they do really - it's that they don't need "titanic bombs" to be amazing, even on substandard material (eg 3/4 of their last album) they don't get as wearying as GA do whenever they don't have a "titanic bomb"

mis-teeq just had better styles, songs, everything, i find it hard to imagine hating them? also the singer was sabrina not selina. 2-step gone pop >>>> anything else really.

also god stevem i'm not repeating the gazillion amazing songs i've been spreading this year yet again! ain't my fault if y'all don't keep UP and prefer instead to devote your energies to this.

you're missing the point (on purpose?). we do still have a reasonable amount of taste overlap (RELATIVELY) re new stuff but how much positive response does the stuff you champion get really? sure you can just write that off as the audience's fault or whatever but it's more down to how different people's requirements and preferences are in areas they otherwise generally find common ground in.

as with 'the promise' whatever there is good about 'bongo jam' or 'baby' (i don't like either of these tracks for clear reasons, altho 'bongo jam' is a bit funny at least and almost likeable on that basis) some people won't recognise or care because their criteria may favour concept over execution, a greater level of sonic or musical sophistication (inc strength of hooks, melodic qualities whatever) and progression, structure over the artist's 'personality' on record or lyrics. i wouldn't necessarily say GA in particular are (or were ever) strong in these departments but Xenomania have been at times and their stuff can still have this drive (for want of more fitting word) that no-one else on that side of pop seems to do in the same way.

still agree with anyone who says they need to raise their game and deviate from their tried and trusted templates, but that doesn't stop enjoyment of their recent Annie stuff (yes it would suit GA just as well, personality issues are compromised but not irredeemably by any means and if formula was a crime then anyone basing their tracks on early 80s electro beats is just as guilty) at all.

for the record i hated Mis-Teeq at first (but I didn't hate so much girly garage pop before them e.g. 'Sincere', 'Girls Like Us') mainly because i thought Alesha was annoying. seems very weird now but still imaginable.

CAVEAT: the chorus of 'girls' is the laziest thing

I was also going to call it lazy. The sample (which is excellent) does all the heavy lifting. The lyrics are also very Destiny's Child-style woman's lib stuff; trite. But when it comes on the radio you know everyone will turn it up.

i can't believe anyone could hate 'bongo jam'. I SAID I LIKE TO PLAY!

i'm just thinking of that time i uploaded young jeezy, jazmine sullivan and jennifer hudson to poptimists - and there really isn't any question that those are monster pop songs - and no one replied. except frank, who'd heard them all anyway. and yet this bollocks (and the boring annie album) gets everyone creaming themselves? fuck that!

and there really isn't any question that those are monster pop songs

then why bother talking about them

everyone creaming themselves?

where is this happening? are you still lurking on popjustice or something? 75% of the talk is you moaning!

there really isn't any question that those are monster pop songs

except, of course, that one man's "monster pop song" is another's "boring old bollocks", and vice versa.

Girls Aloud tour 2008 >>>>>>>>> Sugababes tour 2007.

except, of course, that one man's "monster pop song" is another's "boring old bollocks", and vice versa

careful. stuff like that will get you nowhere.

except to the hollow, meaningless truth at the core of it all.

i'm just thinking of that time i uploaded young jeezy, jazmine sullivan and jennifer hudson to poptimists - and there really isn't any question that those are monster pop songs

"Spotlight" is an understated slow burner, it's not exactly the first thing that comes to mind when i think of "monster pop songs"! likewise "Need U Bad" - if it's so "monster", how come it barely scraped Billboard's top 50? (and it's not that grand either, there've been numerous lovers rock jams in the last few years from all over the place that put it to shame.)

i'll admit that Girls Aloud are past their peak, but i'd be lying if i said that i didn't enjoy the hell out of at least half of "Tangled Up", and generally i tend to love hooky 60s pop pastiches that aren't done by indie dorks or Amy Winehouse wannabes, so i'm totally LOVING "Promise" so far.

btw Lex, i can easily see Ciara flopping with her new album and accompanying singles: if that happens, will you turn your back on her coz she's not "important" anymore?

i can't believe anyone could hate 'bongo jam'

Oh I dunno, I totally can see how it could become annoying. Actually it IS annoying, but my annoyance threshold is very high at the moment.

Incidentally anyone jumping on the 'OMG why are you still interested in Girls Aloud?' bandwagon while raving about the last Ashlee Simpson album should be disqualified from this thread.

it's not about popularity or sales it's about how good the music is. 'little miss obsessive' >>>>> everything on last girls aloud album whether it flops or not

after hearing the lead single cici's going with instead of 'high price' i have no doubt that her album will flop due to mismanagement again :(

i don't think your value system has much to do with 'music' here. what do you even mean by good music wrt current pop?

It's interesting how things go in cycles. Circa 2003 I think Tom was arguing that R&B was spent as a creative force on UK pop, and he pointed to the second Mis-Teeq album (which I love) as the evidence.

Lex now arguing the same point re non-R&B versions of UK pop.

Part of the problem surely is that GA and the Sugababes to an extent (and Annie although she's not UK) are still adhering to a definition of 'pop' that's four years old when the rest of pop has moved on.

In fact the very idea of defining pop (as distinct to nu-funky house or bassline or R&B) in the prevailing Poptimists sense of the term leads to a pretty ossified view that's at odds with what pop should be about. So Girls Aloud/Xenomania/Richard X are now the new version of all those regressive twee indie kid interpretations of 'perfect pop'.

So while there's a lot of strawman building going in here, not least by myself, the argument on this thread pretty much boils down to "it's not bad, it's just Xenomania by numbers" vs "but why would you WANT Xenomania by numbers?"

Circa 2003 I think Tom was arguing that R&B was spent as a creative force on UK pop, and he pointed to the second Mis-Teeq album (which I love) as the evidence

Tom really argued this??! sadface! (I wasn't on ILX at any point during Mis-Teeq's peak.) (OH THOSE HALCYON DAYS x 2000.)

unfortch it seems tom was half-right, if you replace 'creative' w/'commercial'.

matt otm about the 'definition' of pop: i think the effect of "the online pop community" on pop music, insofar as it's had any, has been immensely deleterious, because it's such a specific view which excludes a lot more than it includes (or to be precise, privileges certain types of pop way way above others).

So Girls Aloud/Xenomania/Richard X are now the new version of all those regressive twee indie kid interpretations of 'perfect pop'

exactly, the amount of times i've seen last.fm profiles (of people in eg popjustice and poptimists communities) which are basically ENTIRELY TWEE INDIE except for girls aloud, and not one black artist in the entire thing.

still adhering to a definition of 'pop' that's four years old when the rest of pop has moved on.

yeah but moved on how? GA's new single presumably jumps on the same nebulous retro bandwagon as many are doing lately inc Sugababes with 'Girls', Estelle to some extent, ridiculously young Winehouse-'inspired' types, Solange...

most pop seems to still be taking it's cue from 1968 or 1981.

Most played artists in Popjustice last.fm group of the past seven days:

1. Kylie Minogue (153)
2. Girls Aloud (143)
3. Britney Spears (141)
4. Madonna (140)
5. Sugababes (139)
6. Annie (132)
7. Christina Aguilera (114)
8. Rihanna (101)
9. Lady GaGa (89)
10. The Saturdays (85)

outrageous sexism

i do not even notice if singers are male or female - that's how non-sexist i am.

well their names kinda give it away. i guess The Saturdays could be anyone (but of course they're a five piece poor man's GA).

Who is Lady GaGa?

does she have big tits?

Who is Lady GaGa?

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 14:57 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

A less sellable version of Katy Perry

new mediocre electro-popist girl, #1 in Canada and a few other places with 'Just Dance' (which is quite Disturbia-esque production wise)

ok i am listening to my hi-quality stream of 'the promise' and wow this song is dull. manages to be overdone and completely insubstantial at the same time. starts off like the world's worst office party (srsly why does so much pop now - alphabeat also spring to mind - sound like it was made with office parties in mind?? DNW) except by halfway through everyone's already left. let us talk no more of it!

for actual really amazing pop, two new ciara tracks have leaked - 'echo' and 'work'. go get 'em or stfu!

srsly why does so much pop now - alphabeat also spring to mind - sound like it was made with office parties in mind?

you mean like Sugababes 'About You Now'? this is your worst straw man/projection yet lex. RESIGN.

'about you now' isn't bellowy enough to be real office party material

this reminds me more and more of the big Justice (and affiliated) argument last year, in that a few people would keep posting on the thread just to complain about them but their criticism being more to do with lame perceptions of "the people who listen to them" because they couldn't really explain why the music itself was bad (as opposed to just not to their taste).

re Ciara, now the acapella of 'Get Up' over instrumental of Sasse's 'Loosing Touch' - THAT is amazing

Oooh I haven't heard that.

Only I have ;)

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I Think We're Alone Now 6

^^ what the fuck

long hot summer easily one of their best. tbh people have been hating on their lead singles since then, which was closer in time to their debut single than their newest. it's not very surprising that a successful band/producer sort of stick to a similar template, and so they aren't 'important' any more, because that obvious really matters, but sometimes they refine the formula and do something that doesn't fit bullshit hegelian notions of onwards-and-upwards progression.

People who voted for 'Whole Lotta History' should be banned for life.

cosign

Pretty sure there's not been a great, or even "good" tbh, ballad by female pop stars this decade.

"Be Mine" doesn't count.

i can see why Aguilera's 'Beautiful' was so popular

If I'd got to this in time, I would have gone for "Call The Shots", which is - to my knowledge - their only half-decent song.

Your knowledge is severely lacking

Well, I'm aware of the vast majority of the bloody awful singles.

Something Kinda Ooooh 0

^derserved a vote imo

plus lol @ this:

Who is Lady GaGa?

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 17 September 2008 14:57 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

A less sellable version of Katy Perry

― Carrie Bradshaw Layfield (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:00 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink