taking sides: chicago vs. jamaica

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one "birthplace of modern pop" (pre-1975 division), vs. another (post-76.) (the rest is a sort of gray area.) i sing the body electric/erotic (m.w. plugging 6 rusty strings into the chi-town electrical grid) vs. the world's best selling religious pop music (okay, probably not, but do you see what i did there??)

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

taking sides: the chess brothers vs. duke reid.

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I thought this would be about house vs dancehall.

― Tim, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ostensibly it is, tim. although if you feel a second thread is in order, i can start one.

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i now know dave q's pain. i'm sorry if i was ever flip about a TS before, dave.

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Think of your audience, Jess. DUMB IT DOWN, DOOD. And offer concrete examples. (But, really, DON'T dumb it down; just capitulate to the masses a smidge more, s'all.) (Please excuse me while I look up "capitulate".) (OK, hitting SEND.)

― Daver, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

my shtick is too ingrained to change now.

"hows about some answers here people!"

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Chicago is / was home to Veruca Salt, Loud Lucy, AND Urge Overkill! Beat THAT, rastaman!

― Daver, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

my head hurts now.

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Chicago = Babylon.

― Tom, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That'll teach me to try to be deadpan on the glorious interweb.

― Tim, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, ditto.

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

taking sides: elephant man vs. big black

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(or: i should have started this thread last night when i was drunk and ebullient rather than hungover and miserable.)

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Is "The Bombing" the best 9/11 song yet?* It's certainly the most straightforward. I guess Jamaican singers have a fair bit of practise in singing apocalypse songs.

*ans - no. Still "Rules".

― Tom, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.aboyd.com/merrick/images/elepman5.jpg

VS.

http://www.bigblackbear.com/mmimages/BigBears/BBBart.jpg

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

goddamnit tom, and just when i had given up on this thread too.

anyway, i'm still serious about this folks!

(and isn't big black bart there, just the cutest thing you've ever seen. the bears are nice too.)

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I see the creepiness is spreading.

― Tom, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

whatever do you mean?

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

but do you see what i did there??
Yes, you created an imaginary schism.

― cuba libre (nathalie), Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

how clever. you not only missed the joke, but you've also missed the entire point of the taking sides phenom.

anyway, i really am feeling bad for all those times i "clowned" (c. 2002 ramosi) dave q.

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Taking sides: Kander & Ebb vs. Arlen & Harburg.

(ha! - what was the other Harold Arlen composition I posted about on ILM today then? eh?)

― Jeff W, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

TS: Terry Kath vs. Peter Tosh

― briania, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Buh buh I don't mean that in a nasty way. I actually LIKE it. Obviously my own stupidity exerts itself even when I am not me.

― cuba libre (nathalie), Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

obviously we have all underestimated the power of the almighty raggett winky wink.

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Peter Cetera sux0rz.

― http://gygax.pitas.com, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

obviously we have all underestimated the power of the almighty raggett winky wink.

And thus my aura of command spreads. Sorta.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Chicago wins because it accepts the loss of the body wheras Jamaica continues to assert the body against all reason and meaning. Everything good that comes from Jamaica is influenced by Chicago, but the flipside is only half-true.

― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Why are 85% of ILM posters so reluctant to discuss Jamaican music? I mean for goodness sake, you honestly can't know much less about it than I do!

― Tom, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Sister Charmaine's "The Body" - "Mi have a body mi control the enemy" - vs Tweet fite! (Actually Sterling what Chicago music is extra-bodily? House surely isn't. Tortoise?? Whereas Dancehall is pretty cyborg - singer-as-software to riddim-as-hardware, perhaps.)

― Tom, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

obviously we have all underestimated the power of the almighty raggett winky wink.
Alas, I am influenced by those who do not believe in reification.

― cuba libre (nathalie), Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

funny enough there are a number of jamaicans at my workplace(h2b program) and they all love country and western.

― keith, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

does anyone besides me not have a clue what these folks are talking about?? im feeling quite thick right about now

― Ron, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

well ron, apparently i'm "not as smart as i think i am" for starting this thread (although i think the thread bears that out, making the comment kind of redundant...and i know exactly how much of an idiot i am at all times), but here's what i was going for:

chicago = the birthplace (generally agreed upon) of electrified blues, and therefore of r&b, which - with input from rockabilly and country - became rock and roll. therefore instrumental in shaping much of the following 25-odd years of popular music, in one way or another. (electric blues obviously had a lot to do with funk as well.)

jamaica = the birthpace of the dj-as-artist, the modern remix (or at least tied with disco...taking sides: tom moulton vs. king tubby), the mc, the pritorization of rhythm (drums and the bass), not to mention the "cultural" aspects of rasta/roots which fed - directly or indirectly - into much of punk, disco, hiphop, rave music, etc...

obviously these are reductions, but since when was a taking sides even-handed?

― jess, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i keep trying to think of something to say, but im not coming up with much. i think its interesting how the use of standard rhythms in reggae/ dancehall might relate to sampling. where does james brown fit into all of this? he seems more on the chicago side, but has tremendous influence on rap. rap/hiphop brings together so much, its not fair to put it on one side or the other. another thing i find interesting about reggae is that it can be seen as 'bizarro' soul. (y'know like superman) i mean that some elements are (potentially) opposite to north american soul. the only example i can think of right now is the drum beat, which in rock/r&b/soul finds the kick on 1/3 and the snare on 2/4. much reggae reverses this in the most wonderful way. also the way the rhythm guitar or keyboards are often on the upbeat, that skank, rather than the straight ahead approach of the rawk. well anyways y'all know this but i find it interesting...

― Ron, Wednesday, 15 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't see the schism necessarily, but I see where this is coming from. Bambaata, Kool Herc, and Flash synthesized it all, from King Tubby to JB to Kraftwerk. Add the Jamaican concept of MC, and a new form emerges. Remember that Dr. Dre owes much to David Axelrod as well as his obvious influence George Clinton. Toots and the Maytals covered "Country Roads" for chrissakes. Ron makes a relevant point about the rhythmic differences of reggae and R&B but "reggae's got soul." And where would a Fela Kuti or Jorge Ben fit into the picture? I guess that's another discussion.

― bryan, Wednesday, 15 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't see the schism necessarily > Then obviously they have fooled you well.

― cuba libre (nathalie), Wednesday, 15 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Problem is that Ska probably wouldn't have existed in the first place if it wasn't for R+B which sort of makes Chicago responsible for the whole Jamaica thing anyway.

― RickyT, Wednesday, 15 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I personally am fascinated by ragget music and would welcome more discussion of same on ILM. I think a lot of us are more enamored of "roots" or "lovers" style ragget than the "slack" dancehall ragget that is more prominent in recent years -- perhaps that's why ragget doesn't get as much mention here as it might...

― briania, Wednesday, 15 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

My head hurts. Entertainingly, I have to say.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 15 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Tom: house is exactly what I meant by extra bodily. The rhythm is indifferent to the pulse of the body, and beholden to the clack of the metronome. Dancehall, on the other hand is much more organically riddim-driven. House vocals hover swoop and swoon, dancehall vocals grunt and exert. Dancehall rides the machine, but the machine rides house.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 15 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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