electroclash - am i missing something ?

Electroclash isn't meant to be a straight revisiting of early 80s synthpop. The key differences seem to be -

- it's evolved as a songification of electronic/dance music rather than as an electrification of pop (This seems an interesting and fruitful development)

- it's got a 'darker' and 'edgier' feel to it (This seems a complete dead end.)

Does anyone else think the similarity between nu-electro and DM or Human League is greatly exaggerated?

Is there anyone who likes both "old" and "new"?

I think it's exaggerated a bit. The nu-electro stuff sounds much more like European synth stuff than British synthpop and the vocal treatments are completely different.

I like the "old" a lot more than the new but I don't mind the "new".

it's big with londoners. it aint with us mancs. and, i'm saying it's romo all over again.

'sunglasses at night' ...eh ?

I don't think I'll ever get the old, but some of the new is fantastic.

Tiga's American Gigolo is better than Futurism though, particularly the track with Marc Almond. It's also alot more dancefloor than Futurism.

Turning Ronan's question back on itself - could one be mistaken for the other?

Obviously electroclash could by design impersonate 80s synth pop, but would some obscure 80s electro pop fool electroclash-scenesters?

What 80s electropop would people pick if they had to achieve such a deception? How about - Henry Badowski's 'Baby Sign Here With Me' or Berlin Blondes 'Science'?

I dunno - I don't think so actually - all the examples I've heard sound 'contemporary' though I have no idea what quality I mean when I say that.

As an aside, I once played 'Science' to Dickon Edwards claiming it was a Romo band and he wasn't fooled (or very interested).

ps, Tom: 'darker'? Than whom?

Is there anyone who likes both "old" and "new"?
I love them both!* And the nu-electro artists mentioned in the question are very pop (or can be). Indeed, for some people 'round here (hello mt!) this is exactly the problem.

*Why do I post on this board? I must be daft (joke!)

Yes, you're missing this and this and this.

"1 2 3 4" by Golden Boy and Miss Kittin is maybe my favorite pop song of the past two years (well besides all those other ones I've said were my favorite). Sadly I haven't heard anything else from her/them nearly as good but part of it is that the cream of the crop isn't served up to you piping hot; you kind of have to hunt for the wheat in a sea of chaff, so in that sense no, they're not pop songs.

I can't see the similarity, other than the obvious fact that it's synth based. The nu-electro stuff I've heard (I've got Futurism, and I've heard a handful of other stuff) is more of a throwback to some of the darker, more underground electronic music of the early/mid- 80's (Coil, 400 Blows, Attrition, Legendary Pink Dots, Cabs, TG's more accessible moments). The beats sound fresher, but that's about it.

There is none of the emotional pull and blood n guts humanity of prime Human League, or Soft Cell for that matter. They wrote songs which happened to use electronic instruments, but were direct descendants of Ticket to Ride, All or Nothing, and Stop in the Name of Love. If HL had continued in a straight line after Travelogue without splitting maybe the comparisons would be part-way valid, but much of Futurism amounts to a simple sequencer pattern and some nifty beats. There's little effort put into pop hooks/structure/emotion.

Not that this is *bad* - don't get the idea that I'm bemoaning the lack of *craft* or somesuch. I'm not. I'm just convinced the link isn't there, or at any rate is a marketing-led illusion.

The most interesting aspect about electroclash is the techno-ish strain on the production which grabs you for a while but the songs go absolutely nowhere. Now I really loved the Felix album (more dancefloor orientated)but I've heard "Sunglasses at night" and some Fischerspooner and like Dr C said there isnt "the emotional pull and blood and guts humanity" of top synth pop.

The Felix album being lumped in with nu-electro as it has been in various places is total and utter insanity.

The so called "old stuff" is far more electronically twee anyway.

I went and listened some more. There's much more Thompson Twins and Propoganda than 1st + 2nd album Human League there innit?

Sorry to answer my own question, but 'Metal Dance' by SPK and 'Circumstances' by Ege Bam Yasi would be the tracks I'd use in the above litmus test I suggested though I still don't think I'd convince anyone.

I question its dancefloor credentials though. Every club I've been to that plays this stuff (which seems like every other club you go to in london these days) has a fairly inactive dancefloor. A lot of it comes across like really slow trance unless the DJ is really good at bringing out the interest in the music, and the drum patterns seem quite hard to dance to. Anybody else find this?

Yes.

Yes it's a nightmare, but it's funny watching drunk people trying.

When I first heard Ladytron and other artists my initial reaction was derision. Aside from Yaz, Soft Cell Depeche Mode and early Human League, synth-pop is bubble gum music that shouldn't have been revived but now listnening to the new electro more frequently I realized that there's a lot more to the old synh-pop than I initially believed.

just as a clarification, does electroclash refer to felix-kittin-type stuff or the more song-y faint/ladytron stuff? or just anything with that kind of synth noise? i mean the latter do seem to fit in with the humanleague,softcell style, if maybe not as accomplished.

Tom is OTM re the eurodance similarity, the Sunglasses at night track reminds me of living on video by Trans-X,and other obscrities from the same era U Bahn X and Gina X (hey what is it about the letter X?).

To me it sounds a like what a Ze records artist and Christina springs instantly to mind if they'd went down an electropop route rather than a more straightforward disco/funk route. No bad thing of course.

That sentence should read.....To me it sounds like what a Ze records artist, and Christina springs instantly to mind, would sound like if they'd went down an electropop route rather than a more straightforward disco/funk route. No bad thing of course.

Hope that makes more sense.

"The so called old stuff is far more electronically twee anyway"

Well twee me up then. I feel there's gonna be a horrible spate of electroclash tracks in the charts using the same formula of monotone vocals and dark synth sounds that lead nowhere and bore me senseless. Then again, I really like the new Peaches single "Set it off". That rocks. I'll have some more of that.

(Another way to approach this is to see the less European portions of electroclash as sort of dance music for headbangers, a line in which seems a lot more reasonable when listening to something like Adult: tracking back to the colder, more discrete sounds of early electro allows the tracks to growl and bang in ways that the plusher electronica of recent years hasn't been able to. The living demonstration of this is that the former lead of skronky Chicago no- wave bangers Lake of Dracula is now doing 12-inches on Ersatz Audio.)

My take is that the more electro electroclash is really bad to constitute as a genre insofar as it's completely hit-or-miss, terrifically rare with the hits, terrifically dull when missing, and terrifically difficult to isolate what exactly causes the tracks to work or not. Actually that goes for the actual synthpop as well: thus far I can find maybe four flat-out terrific songs by the likes of Ladytron and Figurine, which makes me wonder what the hell some of these people are thinking when they're surrounding them with useless junk.

Seems to me a lot of acts all over the place surround four good songs with useless junk. ;-)

Maybe piscesboy, but EMI isn't going to be left out in the cold, watch as multinational Konzerns align themselves with this pony. All of this fuss has nothing to do with "Pop Songs," at least for the moment...I think were seeing a cultural shift, without a doubt 911 has something to do with this. See: EMI buys MUTE thread. The New York Times and ILM good buddy Simon Reynolds already have stuck their necks out, 10-4. EVERY major music magazine will have Electro- clash/Punk type profiles in next few months. Btw, Fisherspooner is the new Jeff Koons type arty darling. The "powers that be," seem to think Electro/PUNK culture will soon be a dominant mode of middle - americian teenage angst. Much the way Hip- Hop culture is/was for urban youth.

Can't wait for Iggy/YAZ side project!

NOW can we discuss wyrdfolk?: Stone Breath, Marianne Nowottny, Magic Carpathians, Greg Weeks.

Emperor's new clothes = music other people like that you don't.

Stone Breath...Greg Weeks

Both quite excellent, I have to say. But not the subject under discussion. ;-)

does electroclash refer to felix-kittin-type stuff or the more song-y faint/ladytron stuff?

I think its the first group. And actuall, its the Faint and Ladytron that seem to hit closer to the 80's synth vibe.

Rates a great big shrug, I think: some's OK, some isn't, none of it's terribly interesting -- Gogogoairheart have been digging around in rather more interesting '80s territory (Gang of Four & PiL forced through a strainer) for years now. But Micheline sez: synth-pop is bubble gum music that shouldn't have been revived "That shouldn't have been revived" yes because revivals are boring, but to speak ill of bubblegum music, that most noble of genres...O speak not so, Madame!

I'm so glad you said that, John. For about three years now I've been thinking that Gogogoairheart is the Best Name Ever and have been scared to listen to them for fear of finding that they don't live up to it. Will have to download shortly.

I don't find it hard to dance to at all - the club i've been going to regularly plays it and I love it. I like the cold, clinical precision, it feels robotically precise, and that lends it a funky style all its ownIt's fun watching the indie kids try to dance to it, though. Of course, when they play the damned Strokes and White Stripes and I try to dance to that, that's when *I* look like a moron.

john, why are gogogoairheart not an example of the revivalism you're slamming? isn't their line of influence from the go4/pop-group stuff more direct than some of these electro groups with multiple roots? or are you just saying that they're a better credit to their predecessors? which might well be true, of course.

I don't know that I'm really slamming the stuff -- just saying that it doesn't grab me. Wherefore I shrug. I think it's a little too deeply in love with its own formal origins; too engaged with the letter of the law and not the spirit. Gogogoairheart wear their influences on their sleeves and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they have their influences' names tattooed to their foreheads, but all I hear on the album + 7" I've got is a band that sounds like they'd be playing what they're playing even if they lived in an underground bunker with no recording equipment. So: the influence (which term is going to get me in trouble with mark s) is clearer with Gogogoairheart, but much less cloying, you know? There's nothing cute about them, and I like that. When I want cute music I'll listen to Triple Shake.

Most likely the reason why nu-electro doesn't have the "emotional pull" of the original synth pop stuff is that it's reinvocation of synth pop is much like house's reinvocation of soul/gospel/disco. The artists are much more interested in the stylistic and aural trappings of the original vocals rather than what they were meant to convey. If there is an "emotional pull" to nu-electro, it is - as with house - in the groove, not the "song".

i'm saying it's romo all over again

Heh heh, La La Land by Green Velvet sounds v.v.v.RoMo indeed!

Nu-Electro reminds me a lot of late '80s Belgian New Beat. Both look primarily back to European electronic disco/pop - Giorgio Moroder, Visage, John Foxx, Kraftwerk, Gary Numan, Soft Cell - for their influences rather than to Detroit or Chicago. Both share obsessions with fashion, glamour, decadence, the cinema, melodrama, and especially pornography. Compare Miss Kittin with Jade 4 U/Darling Nikkie, for instance, especially Lords of Acid.

Is there anyone who likes them both?

I do, and as a DJ I'd have to say alot of the new stuff is bad, like any genre. But there are a few out there who I think will be good enough to start a trend back toward older synth stuff. Bands like the Faint have an opportunity to create something fresh out of something old. I think the two have great potential to work together.

Yay! electro!
Nay electroclash!

Is this by mt? (thanks to Stevie Nixed for the find btw)