The Stooges vs. Black Sabbath

haha you daft bastard

the twin towers of rock

trick question. black sabbath IS god

if you're a monotheistic sort

Don't be stupid. The Stooges vs. any band in the world = The Stooges.

Except the Velvet Underground.

Sabbath are not the Velvet Underground, ergo Stooges = MADE OF WIN.

that is a mighty peculiar calculus you have developed

Sabbath > Stooges > VU

Just my opinion, like.

if the Coop couldn't take down the Sabs, no way the Stooges will...

has Iggy vs. Ozzy been done yet?...(I'm pretty sure rolling around in broken glass trumps the snorting of ant-hills)...

fuck, man, "makes sense" does not equal "should be done"

so what would would the corresponding "Velvet Underground vs" thread be?

well, I just asked about the vu vs stones poll on the other thread so there you go.

also alice cooper doesn't have the same claim to primacy/influence that the stooges do.

when does this close? next friday? good, that is a hell of a lot of time to consider my answer.

wow.

Ha ha it is the CALCULUS OF ROCK.

i've just sent a link to this thread to a friend so he can ponder it too. i think he'll go for black sabbath, but i can't actually be sure. just as i'm edging towards the stooges. but ... gah.

funhouse is to rock albums what the godfather is to film in these here parts

Sabbath are freaking NURSERY SCHOOL compared with the Stooges. Just get out of here. :-D

Bill Magill's gonna show up soon, and man is he gonna be pissed!

Despite some superficial similarities of sound, I feel this is apples versus oranges in terms of feel, who the bands were, what their general outlook was, and what they achieved.

If it comes down to it, I 'respect' Sabbath, but I haven't really listened to them much since school. (I sometimes feel I should down load the catalogue, and apply myself to it.) There's an utter bleakness about the early stuff that I find hard to be around.

Bill Magill's gonna show up soon, and man is he gonna be pissed!

haha yeah that's what I was thinking

(xpost) I've been trying, and I find it hard to take Sabbath seriously on some level. I "respect" them, they're obviously a great band with some fantastic songs. But there's a vague "pantomime" element there - sort of like there is with Bowie. Don't get me wrong, "Paranoid" is a great track, but lines like "people think I'm insane because I am frowning all the time"... It's like Ozzy is Widow Twanky or something. With the Stooges I don't get that feeling, they are far more "serious".

this is apples versus oranges

these are two bands that took rock-as-bludgeon to logical primal ends with lyrical content designed to register with every pimply teenage shut-in from here to eternity

not to mention they've both aged well

how much of the sabbath bashing / disinterest from the uk folks is a class thing?

stoooges

I don't think it's a class thing, so much as a metal thing. It's OK for indie kids to like the Stooges.

can of worms, opened. xp

it's not okay for indie kids to like sabbath??? fucked up.

its true when i see a kid w/vans and a sabbath tshirt im like bro u got to choose

then i make them remove one of the items

that's right I went there

With the Stooges I don't get that feeling, they are far more "serious".

I half-wrote and erased something about how sabbath's supernatural leanings turns off secular minded folks. I've run into this with people I know, and christgau gets at it in his sabbath reviews.

on black sabbath: "I've been worried something like this was going to happen since the first time I saw a numerology column in an underground newspaper."

on paranoid: "I suppose I could enjoy them as camp, like a horror movie--the title cut is definitely screamworthy. After all, their audience can't take that Lucifer bit seriously, right? Well, depends on what you mean by serious. Personally, I've always suspected that horror movies catharsized stuff I was too rational to care about in the first place."

Serious? The Stooges did a lot of songs which are basically about partying, Sabbath, not so much.

"now I'm gonna be twenty two. I say 'oh my' and uh, 'boo- hoo'" vs. "people think I'm insane because I am frowning all the time"

"My pain is stupid and boring, and also sad" vs. "my pain is sad"

haha it's Flipper vs. Joy Division all over again

OTFM!

It's not the supernatural stuff, it's that a lot of Sabbath stuff has this sense of, I don't know, lightheartedness about it, that the Stooges don't have. Same with Alice Cooper. Both Sabbath and Coop frequently have a comic book quality to their songs ("Ironman" springs to mind, as does "Ballad of Dwight Fry"). There's also this feeling of standing slightly back from the subject matter and looking at it through an objective eye - in "Paranoid" Ozzy is simultaneously sympathising with and mocking the character he's singing.

For some reason, I've never read either of those Sabbath songs in that way. I can see that you could, but Ozzy sounded so miserable.

maybe "serious" is the wrong term. I'm thinking in terms of a grownup listening to sabbath and saying "I can't take this seriously."

stooges are about partying and being wild but they're not talking about fairies and satan.

in "Paranoid" Ozzy is simultaneously sympathising with and mocking the character he's singing.

sabbath are uber-dour. interpreting them as mocking or making fun runs the risk of bringing something to the table that's not there. it makes you sound like an ironic indie kid!

hmmm yeah I agree with Soukesian. Altho whenever I pay attention to the words to "Fairies Wear Boots" I crack up. Not sure that's the effect Ozzy was going for with his anguished yowling though.

(xpost) Well it's the choice of words. "Finished with my woman...", come on! I get the feeling that Ozzy just wants to tell the character to pull himself together.

I can't see Ozzy as being anything other than straightforward there (or anywhere). If anything, it sounds more like an "I get girls" kind of dishonest,nonchalant boast from the kind of outsider/loser Ozzy apparently really was (Iommi used to genuinely beat him up for his lunch money, right?).

three albums of awesomeness vs. less than a dozen songs over two or three albums

STOOGES WIN

Sabbath invented Metal. Stooges AND VU evaporate in a puff of smoke.

in a weird way this boils down to funhouse vs. paranoid for me

I can't see Ozzy as being anything other than straightforward there (or anywhere). If anything, it sounds more like an "I get girls" kind of dishonest, nonchalant boast from the kind of outsider/loser Ozzy apparently really was (Iommi used to genuinely beat him up for his lunch money, right?).

interpreting an ode to anhedonia as boasting is crazytalk.

I'm so depressed I can't relate to women! jealous?

Sabbath > Stooges but, Iggy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ozzy

xpost nah, I meant it like he was saying "I had a girl, but she just wasn't for me, so I ditched her like it weren't no thing. I didn't need her." I actually don't feel like Ozzy spent a whole lot of time writing/thinking about his lyrics, but that line just kind of has that offhand quality to it.

Black Sabbath.

within the context of the song that doesn't scan right. it's about someone who's so depressed they can't relate to other people, not someone who's so depressed they think they're better than everybody else.

xp

Finished with my woman
'cause she couldn't help me with my mind
People think I'm insane
Because I am frowning all the time

All day long I think of things
But nothing seems to satisfy
Think I'll lose my mind
If I don't find something to pacify

Can you help me, occupy my brain?
Oh yeah!

I need someone to show me
The things in life that I can't find
I can't see the things that make true
Happiness, I must be blind

Make a joke and I will sigh
And you will laugh and I will cry
Happiness I cannot feel
And love to me is so unreal

And so as you hear these words
Telling you now of my state
I tell you to enjoy life
I wish I could but it's too late

it's that a lot of Sabbath stuff has this sense of, I don't know, lightheartedness about it

?!

xpost yeah, like I said, I don't feel like he spent tons of time on his lyrics, and I don't think you should read too much into his them, either. I was trying to follow snoball's example, like "If I were to read into them, here's what I'd try..."

You're right,though.

I thought Bill Ward wrote most of the lyrics?

oh, that freewheelin' lighthearted black sabbath

Ward definitely wrote "Paranoid." I remember seeing interview footage where he explained he wasn't even really sure what the word meant, just that everyone was walking around saying "Man, I'm paranoid" all the time.

haha

another similarity between sabbath & stooges is they both have so-stupid-they're-smart lyrics. it might sound like they're yelling out the first thing that made it to paper before rehearsal but when you get down to it the lyrics are really witty & visceral.

but black sabbath can't? oh come on. you're a child.

hahah yeah Sabbath doesn't inspire anybody these days do they wtf get a clue

there's this little genre called metal, you may have heard of it?

lol I cant think of any band more influential than black sabbath in metal today
x-post

I like the Stooges, but the amount of ill-informed bullshit that's been talked about Sabbath has been a bit depressing.

"The Stooges at least inspire some worthwhile bands to this day."

What the fuck??

b-b-b-but dude just think of all the great Stooges-like bands today! Where would we be without um... um... Jay Reatard? uh... Sonic Youth?

is Mudhoney still around?

I was about to post Bill Magill to thread!

jay reatard is great wtf

Heavy Metal is garbage.

cameron carr is garbage

That's carrbage.

Cameron go to Why is The Genre Of 'Metal' so maligned?

most smart ppl like sabbath and the stooges

indeed

xpost ^^^ ding ding ding

for the record I have never heard a note of Jay Reatard lolz

I can't believe that there are people over 20 who like heavy metal. But I shouldn't be surprised in a country where Bush is president.

Cameron go to Why is The Genre Of 'Metal' so maligned?

lolz Stooges namechecked in opening post

I can't believe that there are people over 20 who like heavy metal. But I shouldn't be surprised in a country where Bush is president.

you know I try to make it a habit to avoid direct insults on ILX but um... you are closeminded and stupid.

I can't believe that there are people over 20 who like heavy metal. But I shouldn't be surprised in a country where Bush is president.

I wasn't aware Bush was president of the UK

Cameron please go post your words of wisdom on that thread

I mean anyone who willfully writes off an entire genre of music doesn't have any business being on a board called I Love Music (haha Geir to thread)

Geir likes some melodic pop metal

"But I shouldn't be surprised in a country where Bush is president."

This is brilliant analysis

Geir actually voted for Sabbath in some poll, I forget which

There was a James Brown vs Black Sabbath poll????

I was thinking more of Geir hating on hip-hop but now that I think about it yr right even he makes exceptions for genres he hates, as long as they include "melody"

but yeah lolz is Bush also president of Brazil, Sweden, Mexico, etc.

There was a James Brown vs Black Sabbath poll????

lolololol

jay reatard is great, check yourselfs

everyone likes sabbath though, not just metal people...they are like the poster boys of "metal for people that don't like metal"....sabbath is metal, but they are separate from metal fandom (although metal fans like sabbath)....

sabbath just is

I hope Cameron is quiet because he's reading the metal is maligned thread

i think geir like 2pac

i think of geir like i think of 2pac

geir has more balls

"There was a James Brown vs Black Sabbath poll????"

That's awesome.

I can't believe that there are people over 20 who like heavy metal. But I shouldn't be surprised in a country where Bush is president.

You know what, I don't have a very big appreciation for metal either, but America = the whole world? What a dumbass you are.

good point metal has traditionally been very unpopular in regions like europe, scandanavia, and south america.

haha

for the record I have never heard a note of Jay Reatard lolz

I wouldn't worry about it. You're not missing anything.

Jay is good. He gets a bed rep, but it seems like he's trying to reconcile.

i mean, he's just fun punk...like ppl have built him up to be something he's not but what he is is fun catchy punk rock that isn't lame!

55 votes for Black Sabbath is a very pleasant surprise. I mean, this is Radiohead/TV on the Radio country, right? The fact that Sabbath has so many voters here is actually encouraging.

or 30 people that dont like the stooges

umm, guys...

srrrrrrrrrrsly loving cameron carr btw whoever's pet project that is a++

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, October 13, 2008 10:19 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

valuable new posters

I'm nobody's "project" much less "pet" unless I have some top secret CIA puppet master I don't know about.

The Manchurian Cameron

Hahaha fwiw that post was made under the assumption you were a sockpuppet. Today you've introduced real doubt into my mind: you may be real! And it sort of frightens me! But welcome!

I'm nobody's "project" much less "pet" unless I have some top secret CIA puppet master I don't know about.

http://fasterthantheworld.com/master_of_puppets.jpg

"joek/pun about 1969" baaaybee!

Ned help me, but i actually believe in Cameron...for now.