People Who Work In Offices: Classic Or Dud?

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Prompted of course by Kate's comments in the ABBA thread. And not a c-o-d more as a general question about pop and rock's attitudes to "office workers" - my impression is they're generally negative ones. The office worker seen a soulless, a drone, tasteless, etc. etc. As somebody who works in an office and whose best friends all work in offices, this has always annoyed me a bit. But I seem to be in a minority. What does anyone think about this? And is owning only 12 CDs a bad thing, especially if they're ace ones like ABBA?

Tom, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Office worker hating is blatant spoilt hippy idiocy: where the hell are people supposed to work? Working in an office sure beats working in a shop.And working from home - which I have done for the last couple of years - means that not only do you have no one to conspire against, but you also have to pay your own internet bills, meaning that I'm paying to write this. On a historical pop front, having an office job was acceptable in mod circles, or so I'm told.

Mark Morris, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Tom is right on both points and Kate is wrong. The only way anti-office-worker sentiment is justified is if the alternative = doing something outside of an office that's genuinely going to change the world into a place that doesn't depend on people working in offices.

I like people who only have 12 CDs.

Nick, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I prefer people who only have 12 CDs.

mark s, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

It's just an offensive stance put forth by people, in general, who I feel are just annoyed that they're making less money than me because they DON'T work in an office. You're right, where the hell else are you supposed to work? At a supermarket? A used CD shop? Have fun living in a roach-infested flat with 5 other people while you make minimum wage, then, luvs.

I would like to know, actually, how many people reading this are "crap automaton office people". I know we have a good deal of college "kids" (she says knowing full well they're all her age), so obviously they won't be office workers, but the rest of yers - where do you work?

It just strikes me that 90% of jobs are office jobs. What's not in an office? Construction worker. Shop people. Police officer. Fire fighter. Something "artistic" - but even then, I'd consider writing art and if you are a journalist, you go into an office; even a field journalist has to go into the office sometimes. I mean, great if those are the things for you and you don't mind the lack of money that say, shop working or trying to be artistic will probably garner you, but I hardly see that as meaning you're going to have better music tastes than anyone else.

Ally, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Offices can be cool places for sure. I went to a friend's office in NYC at V2 music and I thought, "I would get excited to go to work if I worked here!" Of course, I work in some drab, cookie-cutter, off- white drywalled box and its almost painful to have to sit here all day. It makes me much less happy than I would otherwise be. So unhappy that I sometimes don't want to listen to new music for fear that it might suck and make me feel worse. So when I'm at work, I tend to listen to the "standards", which kind of makes me an old fuddy-duddy, eh? I tend to stick in the mud here. My co-workers think that cool music is Dave Matthews and the new Sting album. I'm glad I have other friends.

Tim Baier, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I hate working at an office myself, there's nothing noble about it (although the colleague's are nice). I rather work at a library or university (although that should be crap too). Ah well have to win the lottery so I can sit on a mountain top speaking wise words about life, existence and the joy of space-rock :)

Owning only 12 CDs: is that possible? ;)

Omar, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I work in an office - though it is a relatively unusual office truth be told. And the freedom of having your own office (the freedom to mess the joint up anyway) is better than working in the open air.

Means I can listen to what I like as well. Though I only have 12CD's.

Pete, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

pwwio - they get a bad press - if they wanna work well thats cool I leavem toit. 12CDs is admirable 'cause my old mate Mr. Chris has only 3 - he went into a shop in Stoke and asked 'what's a good dance compilation, a good punk one and a good electropop one'.Next to my 11yr old - who has 6 NOW compilations and 10 singles - he is the coolest person I've met - you go round to chill and theres always something life-affirming on.

Geordie Racer, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

The problem with the argument against offices is that the solution the alternative that's put forth is always to be a rock star. If the people complaining about office jobs suggested doing something worthwhile then maybe it'd be alright.

Twelve is my favourite number.

Greg, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Mine too, Greg. I said so on my 72 questions page - proof!

Anyhow, yes, the alternative is always doing something "artistic" like being a musician, and first off like just anyone can do that, and second off it's unrealistic.

It's never real rock stars that say stuff like that, anyhow.

Ally, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

the solution is maybe to be a rock star, or to be a music journalist, who do actually work in offices, but also spend a lot of time with the "kids" at gigs, doing interviews with glamorous stars and writing stuff that changes music and the world forever. Or maybe to be a writer like Kerouac, with no money, but a life of adventure, or like Faulkner who worked in a lighthouse but didn't really take much notice or responsibility of the day job because he had his important work to do, i.e. writing, that is.

I wish I didn't work in an office, really, I do, but it just didn't work out for me. Long story.

peter, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I've worked in offices since the time I got sick of doing schoolwork (16 or so). Now I'm sick of working in offices, so I'm going off to college in the fall. None of my co-workers were ever particularly interesting, never people I hung out with outside of work, and if any one of them owned more than 12 CDs, I'd be willing to bet I'd like the looks of their collection less than any of my other co-workers'. I'm genetically predisposed to get along best with freeloaders and farmers (and cooks and teachers), but I have no problem with office workers. I like 'em better than policemen, firemen, and artists for chrissakes.

Otis Wheeler, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

: a music journalist, who do actually work in offices, but also spend a lot of time with the "kids" at gigs, doing interviews with glamorous stars and writing stuff that changes music and the world forever.

Damn, so that's what I was meant to be doing. It seemed an awful lot more like reviewing really dull records, interviewing even duller indie rock types and stealing news stories off the internet (once it had been invented, of course). And being woefully underplayed for the privilege of doing something hundreds of other impressionable fools wanted to do. It's a mug's game

Mark Morris, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

oh dear, someone else has taken what was meant to be whimsical humour at face value. I shall try and be more explicit with my intentions in future.

It's true all the journos I know are underfed and boozy maniacs.

Peter, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

More to the point Peter, people have said that stuff to me before and I naturally assumed they were being sarcastic, only they weren't. That's the problem of our post-ironic world: so hard to tell when people are being sincere...

Mark Morris, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Peter: so you know Ben Clancy too? : )

stevie t, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Since when is Ben Clancy underfed?

Mark Morris, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

ha ha the funny thing is, I did have Ben Clancy in mind!

you have to have nothing in your stomach to get that drunk!

Peter, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I once had the ultimate middle ground job...library assistant! But unfortunately it was in a big open plan office block with bad lighting :(...It was a medical library so I developed a fair knowledge of nasty diseases, and would often do searches on "sick building syndrome" in the hope that I could get the building shut down and get a few days off work. I sort of miss reading the British Medical Journal on a Friday, shelving books, printing of labels, cataloguing books that would never leave the shelf...*sigh*. Only bad thing is couldn't use the internet as much as I would have liked to. Research or lecturing is a good way to avoid office work. I hope.

When I was about 15 I did work experience at the for a major media companies transport office, and at the end of it they wrote "James is not suited for office work"....hmmmpphhh!

12 CDs? It depends which ones they are?...and plus if you wanted to get another CD, you'd then have 13. I don't like the number 13 at all.

james edmund L, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

So how many people here *ARE* ex/current MM/NME/Select/Vox/whatever writers, anyway? ;-)

Offices are great things if designed right, and sometimes you luck out. By means of a sheer, total fluke, I have a huge corner office space all to myself, windows everywhere, no cubicle walls, reasonably grand Harman/Kardon speakers for my computer, and my boss works in another building. The scary thing is I'm just a fairly low-level employee.

The musical tastes of my coworkers is something I don't mind or judge them on at all. Their qualities as people and as fellow employees, *that's* where I get pissed. ;-)

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

As a minor indie popstar who hasn't done office work since 1984, I live a life pretty similar to the one I led as a student or signing on. (But with a little more money.) For instance, I'm writing this message in the bath, and it's 2.24pm. I've done little since 9am but surf the internet. (Actually I put about an hour into an interview with Ned.)

At 7pm I'll meet some friends who work in shops in SoHo. We'll have dinner then go and see a band.

Office work is a necessary evil until computers can do it all. There's no inherent dignity in it. I mean, even Bobby Gillespie doesn't really want those miners working down the pits forever, does he?

One day we'll all be 'pop stars'. We'll lounge about being contemplative. We'll have time to listen to nearly all the CDs released each week, and read nearly all the posts on ILM.

Sorry, must rush, got to shampoo my hair.

Momus, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

momus: that sounds like the life to me! baths and ilm, awwwww baby.

anyhoo, the one person that i know who doesn't work in an office is my father. he's 61 years old, owns a landscape company, and he's out in the field, usually under grueling sun, from 9-5 each day. nothing very rock & roll about that and he's worked each day of my life to ensure that i'd be working in an office somewhere, and for that i thank him endlessly.

i mean, how easy is this? i sit in a chair all day, with a computer and internet access. my job is simple and most of my time is given to chatting or e-mailing or thinking deep thoughts. compared to my past job, working at rolling stone -- which is NOT very rock & roll, i should add, where they made me wear a tie and wrote up employees for messy desks -- my current one is sufficiently more laid back, to the point that i'm allowed to wear sneakers and jeans. and that's dressing up! (especially when one considers the guy who wears sweats and the one with rips in his shirts.) my cubicle has grown such that i fear it will soon engulf me: the space is larger, walls are higher, and i have not one, but TWO chairs.

i know very little about what my co-workers listen to, except that the girl next to me has a pixies cd in her drawer so she is cool. the folks are quite nice and the office is not my life, it's merely where i show up so that i can receive money and then set about doing my own thing.

office workers, then: classic.

fred solinger, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Depends on the office and the environment. Like a few others here, I lucked out with my latest job. I work at a computer publication, testing all the newest and coolest hardware, which justifies an airtight room with a locked door. Theoretically, this is for security, but what it really means is that I get to play loud music all day while everyone else is trying hard not to talk too loud when they're on the phone so they don't disturb someone in the next cubicle. The downside is that I share this lab with one other person, and our tastes don't converge all that often, which means that I often have to put up with Radio Free Kansas half the time.

This office job certainly beats standing behind the counter at a record store, in some ways. But I'd still take standing behind the counter to working in an office where I had to be quiet, wear a tie, and never have any fun.

Sean Carruthers, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Screw hanging out with my drug-addict coworkers who trash hotel rooms. I want to go hang out with Momus. Sounds much more relaxing.

Ally, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Everyone is a drone in some form. Sleep/wake, starve/eat/growler, sit/stand/walk -- kinda repetitive, no? Those who criticize the life of an office drone can fall off the mountain they're scaling, for all I care.

My hours of employment are split between a proper office and the house, but each minute is spent in front of a computer. The office environment is so comfy that I attempted to re-create the setting at home. I sized up some soothing cubicle partitions at Office Max, but I was devastated to discover that the familiar shade of powder gray had been discontinued. I tried to block out the windows, since none are within view in my kubrickle. No dice with that either, but I suppose it's healthy to have some variety.

Since music and movie addicts line the halls of my office, it probably makes the average day more passable than one spent at an ad agency or sweatshop. You hear in-depth discussions about the oddest things. Also, the relaxed dress code makes things all the more enjoyable.

I wouldn't want to be whittled down to 12 CDs, but I have no problem with people who are in such a state. They're probably happier and spend their money on more practical things. And if there's ABBA in the collection? Bonus.

Andy, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Wasn't there an old stereotype that the mods were office clerks and the rockers worked in the mills?

At the office today I got the old "so what kind of music do you listen to?" question. I mumbled something about a hangover and said "all kinds of different stuff".

What I really should have said was how disappointed I was in Bassmans band after he left Spacemen 3.

Steven James, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I think the big distinction is between offices, which are mostly dud, and office work, which is less dud but still often dud, and the people who work in offices, about whom no conclusions can be drawn but about whom conclusions still seem to be drawn by snarly rock starz.

Tom, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

So if I got off my backside,did some smart tunes,wrote loads,got the image thing right,had a brainboost etc I could end upsitting in the bath contemplating on an afternoon - sounds like I've been living the life of a minor( c'mon fella - even I had 'Little Red Songbook' + I'm a twat)indie popstar the last few weeks.

When I work - the stuff I do is soul destroying.

Geordie, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

i am in the middle ground, half of my time is spent in an office and half of it outdoors. i work as a plant pathologist and i much prefer the outdoors but then denver is truly lovely this time of year. well most days it is except for those when chinese dust clouds move in and the sky turns a strange shade of blech. the idea that does not appeal to me concerning office work is that of going to the same small space surrounded by the same large people every single day. my quota for that is reduced by half and i feel i am all the more lucky for it.

keith, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Clearly having a go at people who work in offices because they work in offices is absurd, and so silly as barely even to qualify as 'wrong-headed'. I know I'm not saying anything new here.

I expect that the comment that sparked this (haven't seen it yet) was not meant to be taken literally, because nobody could say such a thing literally.

the pinefox, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

<>>> surely "the office worker" does not exist and surely there's lots of soulles tasteless drones everywhere.so there'd have to be lots of soulles tasteless people working in offices next question : "people who drive cars" classic or dud or what.

and yes there are far too many threads .

Oh and where is Tanya ??? has she been banned ?? i miss her insightful rantings. she'd be very much into the idea of people owning less than 12 cds. just read her piece on Abba .

Marie, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Ally, I'd be interested to know why you would think I earn less than you, just because I don't sit in an office. I chose to co-manage a shop for several reasons:I didn't want to sit in an office, I rather stand on my feet and serve people. I enjoy the social part so much that I would never consider to sit behind a desk. I also like the irregular hours. However, this doesn't mean I slag people off because they have an office-job.

my fool name, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I'm here and reading but I also work. That said Tom is sitting on some stuff by me which he should get uploaded pronto.

12 CDs? 12 too many, obviously.

Tanya, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

If you're not one of the people making a big slagging fuss, then why do you think you personally fall into the category of the jealous slacker? Just curious...I mean, the fact that the people are slagging off office workers was a big part of what I said, not just "people who work in shops".

Ally, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Well, never having worked in an office properly I wouldn't really know, but it does seem just a wee bit silly to judge someone as an 'office worker'? Surely you wouldn't find the same kind of people working for the BNP (no, not the French bank) as you would the Anti- Nazi league? Working in an office is probably better than working in a pub (my one and only job), I would imagine, unless you're plagued by agressive incomprehensible drunks there too.

DG, Friday, 20 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Obviously DG has never been to the Millennium offices, the accounting dept is nothing but drunks...

Ally, Saturday, 21 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I work in an office and I'll kick anyone's ass from here (Brooklyn) to Brighton (in ENGLAND) if you've got a problem with it. You see, we have a lot of pent-up hostility...

Thug Life.

JM, Saturday, 21 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Never worked in an office, and stupidly proud of it. Therefore I can't say anything of significance.

Robin Carmody, Saturday, 21 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I had a job in an office once. I didn't talk to anyone.

sally sunbeam, Thursday, 26 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

I too had a job in an office once. I got fired but it was their loss.

Nick, Thursday, 26 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

Lovely that this whole thread happened while I was OUT OF THE OFFICE and therefore unable to contribute to it.

God, I just love being the resident whipping-boy, so I'll go and stick my mouth in it further.

Working in an office... yeah, I did it for TEN FUCKING YEARS. Oh, I loved every minute of it, it was so fulfilling, everyone I worked with was interesting and intellectually stimulating and amazing. I loved working in Corporate AmeriBritannia so damned much that when the car runs out of gas and my fake pop star career ends, I'm going back to working in an office cause I LOVE IT SO DAMNED MUCH!!!

For fucks SAKE... if all of you work in offices, you should understand the fucking mentality I'm talking about!

All you people in offices, take a look around you. Look at the person in the cubicle, veal fattening pen, room, desk, next to you. Look at their CD collection. Do they even have one? Look at the photos on their desk, look at their wallpaper, look at the paperback or magazine they read on the tube/subway/bus/drive home from work.

When I say I hate office people, do you think I'm talking about *YOU* personally, or do you think I'm talking about THEM?

There is a vast difference between working in an office and being an Office Person.

Is that a horribly elitist thing to say? Fuck yeah, I *AM* an elitist. If you're not an elitist, shoot yourself now to free up your crucial food supply for the rest of the bleeding cattle.

I am not saying that all people who find themselves working in offices are crap. I am saying that working in an office leads either to becoming crap, or else hiding all your non-crap impulses under a veneer of office culture that you have to come here to defend your Personhood. Have no emotions. Show no Passion. Never break the mold.

For fucks sake, all of you have passion, or you wouldn't be here discussing music.

You can wibble away like a bleeding heart liberal of the white collar slum and say "all of them are trapped in the office ghetto, it's not their fault, they are all oppressed by the same yoke, etc. everyone resents Office Culture, but they do it to feed their families and pay their rent, just like you" but that is fucking BOLLOCKS because you know as well as I do that so many of those fucking cattle ASPIRE to office culture, ENJOY it and PERPETUATE it. If they don't, then WHY ARE THEY DOING IT?!?!?

I have a right to despise Office Culture because I was forced to attempt to conform to its strictures for so damned long.

I am not a veal fattening pen, I am a FREE MAN!!!

You're right. Maybe I've worked in some crap offices. And maybe I'm just incorrigible, and saved from life in prison only by my intellect and my Upper Middle Class upbringing.

But don't tell me office life isn't crap cause you work in one and you're not crap. The exception proves the rule. Now go and read Dilbert.

_____________________________________________________________

And as to owning only 12 CDs, well FINE if you're my fucking grandmum. I'm venturing a grand guess that most people here own substantially more than that, or they would bloody well BE on a music board in the first place.

Newflash: most people don't care about music. They think it's some childish passtime that they grow out of at the age of 22. Then again, most people voted for Tony Blair, didn't they?

As someone who has spent their entire life defending their passion about music to Office People, and the whole "what the heck is this Brian Jonestown Massacre nonsense about, then?" crap I go through with them. How nice to come to a board full of people who own more than 12 CDs and face the same pedestrian crap. Over bloody fist fucking bollock breaking ABBA.

kate the saint, Friday, 27 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

but abba are good.

and brian jonestown massacre are not.

gareth, Sunday, 29 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

six years pass...

This may not be the last time I ever work in an office but I hope that none of my future employment rivals this for sheer mundanity. No more people constantly coming over and asking "what are you eating?" (WHY do people in offices care SO much about what other people are eating???), no more elaborate phone requests that always end with me asking "can you put this all in an EMAIL?", no more hanging up the phone to have someone, FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF A PARTITION, ask me something about the PRIVATE phone conversation I was just having, no more elevator converstaions! etc.

admrl, Tuesday, 24 July 2007 21:37 (sixteen years ago) link

why is this on ILM? haha

admrl, Tuesday, 24 July 2007 21:37 (sixteen years ago) link

because it's about music!

admrl, Tuesday, 24 July 2007 21:38 (sixteen years ago) link

wonder if robin can weigh in yeet?

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Tuesday, 24 July 2007 21:41 (sixteen years ago) link


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