Best songwriter of all time?

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Whos the best songwriter of all time. i think it has to be Sting when he was going through the thrash metal phase in the mid 70s.

― D.DDD, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

joe raposo.

― chaki, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre400/e451/e4 5116k1vke.jpg

― cuba libre (nathalie), Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Probably, Bruce Dickinson.

― jel --, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Best songwriter of Middle Ages = Richard the Lionheart? - covered by Bryan Ferry on new LP.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Best of C20 = Berlin vs Porter vs McCartney // other pre-1960 teams (Rodgers & H, et al) also in the running.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Roger Nichols/Paul Williams

― Paul Richards, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Without any sycophancy ... I genuinely believe : Momus.

But I'm willing to concede that's because I like his *style* of songwriting : Pop tunes + explicit intellectual discussion, showing off and word-play in the lyrics. I particularly don't like the "just threw togther words that sound good" / used automatic writing / Burroughsian cut-up / symbolist (arbitrary words to invoke images) etc. kinds of lyric writing.

(Shucks. I hope he *isn't* reading this thread.)

― phil, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Best of C20 = Berlin vs Porter vs McCartney // other pre-1960 teams (Rodgers & H, et al) also in the running.

McCartney highs are great, but too many lows. Plus, Rodgers and Hart were better than Porter, says me -- at least musically. Plus, Gershwin & partners were better than most. Plus, where's that Holland-Dozier-Holland thread when I need it?

Do people like Elvis Costello belong in this company? He writes a shitload of songs, and his "success"-rate has got to be at least as good as Berlin, on a per-song basis.

― dleone, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Digital Underground --> "I get stoopid, I shoot an arrow like Cupid / I use a word that don't mean nothin', like looptid" TELL ME THAT'S NOT GENIUS

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes he does - just about. You may be right re Gershwins too - I don't feel I know them enough.

It has just struck me that Porter's songs sometimes go on too long. I don't really need all the verses of 'Let's Do It', at least in the Satchmo version.

PS / Are there any other 'people like' Costello? He's a one-off, no?

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Tracer, that's not genius. What do I get?

― cuba libre (nathalie), Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Joe Jackson for polyvox.

― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

PS / Are there any other 'people like' Costello? He's a one-off, no?

Maybe Andy Partridge, though he seems to take his musical cues from McCartney, Wilson and Davies as opposed to Costello's seemingly more well-rounded approach. I might argue that because of this, Costello is less distinct, musically, but I might also argue that he is less derivative.

― dleone, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

pink

― mark s, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

If I had to pick the songwriter who's written the most songs that mean the most to me, that songwriter would be... (drum roll please)... BOB DYLAN.

― o. nate, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Of course, Phil is quite correct that it's ME!

Other than that, it's Brecht and Weill, Sondheim and Tom Waits.

― Momus, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Best slang = best lyricist therefore E 40.

― Kris, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I had dreams I was related to Joe Raposo, and I'd receive some sort of huge inheritance after he kicked because of the Three's Company theme song.

My dreams suck ass.

― Daver, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Some more recent indie contenders: Robert Pollard, maybe Stephen Merritt

― A Nairn, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Lots of talk of Macca but none of Johnny? Are you mad, people? 8-) Macca may have more musicality but Lennon had more originality & emotional integrity. Anyway, whatever the truth of that they ultimately wrote their best stuff as a duo so (no offence) whilst I dig Rodgers & Harts, the Gerswhin twins et al (& even Jagger & Richards - obviously!)the best songwriting TEAM ever has to be messrs. Lennon & McCartney! Predictable but inevitable.... I appreciate the suggestion of his Bobness too, but (if only for influence)I would also like to throw the name Brian Wilson into the ring - surely up there with the rest? If in doubt listen to "Surf's Up" or "Heroes & Villians" or "Help Me Rhonda" or "Good Vibrations" or "Fun, Fun, Fun" ..... & smile! 8-)

― Paul Kindred, Wednesday, 22 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes to Dylan, Jagger/Richards and Brian Wilson. I'd mention Tom Waits, Jarvis Cocker, Prince, and the great pop teams like Goffin/King, Holland-Dozier-Holland and Mann/Weill.

― Martin Skidmore, Wednesday, 22 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

My list of great songwriters would be shamefully skewed towards art songs and musical theater and would include:

Poulenc
Puccini
Schumann
Wolf
Prince
Bernste in + librettists
Gilbert & Sullivan
Robert Smith & co.
Prince

― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 22 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

six months pass...

I don't really have an opinion, but I would like to nominate C. Curet Alonso (aka Tete Curet Alonso, aka Tete Curet, aka Curet Alonso), an incredible Puerto Rican song writer, still alive I think, who has written for a range of singers from La Lupe to Frankie Ruiz.

Search: Anacaona, Por Que Afinquen, Mi Triste Problema, Esio es el Guaguanco, Franqueza Cruel, Mano Claiente [or in other words, the album Cheo, since those songs make up about half of it], Pirana, Juanita Alimana, Periodico de Ayer, Plato de Segunda Mesa, La Humanidad, La Cura.

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 19 December 2002 14:52 (twenty-three years ago)

in order of first-to-last-popping-into-my-mind-having-been-confronted-with-this-question:

Tom Waits
Prince
George Harrison
Ani DiFranco
Les Claypool on good days ("Cosmic Highway" for instance)
Beck
the brothers Ween
John Lennon
Johnny Cash
Bjork
Brian Wilson
Jimi Hendrix
Sly Stone
Jeff Tweedy
...I'd better stop now before I get going.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 19 December 2002 16:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Nickalicious, I'm calling you out on your Les Claypool worship. "Best songwriter of all time"? Come, now. I like a lot of the rest of your list, but damn.

I think we should also entertain thoughts of Caetano Veloso and Phil Spector and Isaac Hayes/David Porter and George Clinton (yes, as a songwriter, especially in the early 1970s before he realized he'd better get real paid instead of trying to subvert all of modern music) and Laura Nyro. And I'd completely vote for Weill (with or without Brecht) and Lorenz Hart (Rodgers was talented, but Hammerstein was a hack--"The corn is as high as an elephant's eye" indeed") and Gershwin, especially when teamed with brother Ira, who is my favorite lyricist evah.

Oh, and Jimmy Webb is God. Martin Carr said so.

― Matt C., Thursday, 19 December 2002 16:21 (twenty-three years ago)

as others have noted, it's pretty hard to beat songwriting partnerships:

bacharach/david
hayes/porter
brecht/weill
goffin/king
leiber/stoller
jagger/richards
lennon/mccartney
rogers/hammerstein
bjorn/the other dude from abba
ellie greenwich/jeff berry
barry mann/cynthia weil
holland/dozier/holland
Felice & Boudleaux Bryant
gilbert/sullivan
rotten/jones
etc./etc.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 19 December 2002 17:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I love it when people mention Laura Nyro. And Goffin/King yeah!

― Sean (Sean), Thursday, 19 December 2002 17:45 (twenty-three years ago)

Matt C, that's why I said "on good days"...but yeah, you got me there. I don't know, he's thrown down some lemons for sure, but some of his stuff is absurdly amazing.

Like I said, I was just saying the names that popped to mind. Looking back, I'm ashamed of myself for leaving off folks like Tori Amos and Woody Guthrie and the Gershwin boys and Carole King and yadda yadda yadda.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 19 December 2002 18:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Frank Black. Love the surrealism.

― David Allen, Thursday, 19 December 2002 18:51 (twenty-three years ago)

Billy Corgan, Siamese Dream-era

― Curtis Stephens, Thursday, 19 December 2002 18:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Do you mean, of the 20th century?

― Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 19 December 2002 19:29 (twenty-three years ago)

Nick: Didn't mean to bag on yez. Just ribbing you a bit, keeping you honest. [:-]

And don't nobody tell me Sam Cooke didn't write some of the most perfect songs in this half of the century; deceptively "happy," but actually quite despairing in many ways. Bad man, classic songwriter.

― Matt C., Thursday, 19 December 2002 20:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Kurt Ralske is ddeply underrated.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 19 December 2002 20:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Don Van Vliet

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 19 December 2002 21:10 (twenty-three years ago)

goffin / king or bacharach... Les Claypool? LES CLAYPOOL? WHA?!?! He can't write a MELODY, let alone an entire SONG? YEESH.

― Winslow (winslow), Thursday, 19 December 2002 21:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Duo/vox:
Taupin/EJ, JL/PMcC, Rodgers & Hammerstein.
Solo/instrumental:
Gershwin, Mingus, Ellington.

― Tom Millar (Millar), Thursday, 19 December 2002 23:32 (twenty-three years ago)

joni mitchell. by light years.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Thursday, 19 December 2002 23:34 (twenty-three years ago)

Underdogs?:

Benny & Bjorn
Lou
Ray
Thom
Jonny R

If I hear Anything Goes one more time I am liable to murder the nearest and smuggest looking north american.

― chris sallis, Friday, 20 December 2002 01:03 (twenty-three years ago)

three years pass...

i seriously think bob dylan should be uop there he wroter 87 songs and 32 hits

― razor, Thursday, 1 June 2006 08:59 (nineteen years ago)

The correct answer is Diane Warrens, who in the last 20 years has redefine songwriting in terms of pop music with her melodious hits Turn Back The Times, Up Where You Belong, Uptown Girls, Can't Do Nothin' Without You and Careless Hands.

― Comstock Carabineri (nostudium), Thursday, 1 June 2006 09:05 (nineteen years ago)

George Gershwin.

And because no one's mentioned him yet, Jeff Mangum.

― Steve Goldberg (Steve Goldberg), Thursday, 1 June 2006 09:07 (nineteen years ago)

I'm completely with Alex in Manhattan on this one. Joni, Joni, Joni.

― Myke. (Myke Weiskopf), Thursday, 1 June 2006 09:31 (nineteen years ago)

Jimmy Webb

― ant, Thursday, 1 June 2006 09:37 (nineteen years ago)

Can't say who the best is (can anyone?), but here are some of my favourites:

Kris Kristofferson
Robbie Robertson
Johnny Cash
Neil Young
Leonard Cohen
Bob Marley
and many more.

I'm also starting to really like Ben Harper's songs.

― shorty (shorty), Thursday, 1 June 2006 11:44 (nineteen years ago)

Jimmy Webb - hell yeah
Bacharach/David
Brian Wilson
Holland-Dozier-Holland
Stevie Wonder
Smokey Robinson
Goffin-King
Spooner Oldham-Dan Penn
Hank Williams
Lennon-McCartney
Leonard Cohen
Laura Nyro
Joni Mitchell
Neil Young
Don Van Vliet
David Bowie
Brian Eno
Townes Van Zandt
Dylan

― Stew (stew s), Thursday, 1 June 2006 12:04 (nineteen years ago)

Dylan
Goffin-King
Lennon-McCartney
Forster-McClennan
Chrissy Hynde (yes, I'm serious.)

― dave's good arm (facsimile) (dave225.3), Thursday, 1 June 2006 12:08 (nineteen years ago)

eleven months pass...

well Kate Bush deserves at least a mention here!

― Surmounter, Monday, 14 May 2007 02:59 (eighteen years ago)

easy, Gene Clark.

― Saxby D. Elder, Monday, 14 May 2007 03:20 (eighteen years ago)

whoever wrote "when pizza's on a bagel/you can eat pizza any time"

― roxymuzak, Monday, 14 May 2007 03:28 (eighteen years ago)

lol true dat

― Surmounter, Monday, 14 May 2007 03:55 (eighteen years ago)

Hongro

― scott seward, Monday, 14 May 2007 04:02 (eighteen years ago)

I'm also starting to really like Ben Harper's songs.

― Tape Store, Monday, 14 May 2007 04:04 (eighteen years ago)

Hello all. I'm going to take Dave's Good Arm, circle Dylan and McCartney-Lennon with it, erase Hynde and replace with Joni Mitchell,scratch my head (with Dave's Good Arm, of course) at the other two, add Paul Simon and Kurt Cobain. Then I will pass on the arm.

― humansuit, Monday, 14 May 2007 04:35 (eighteen years ago)

No props for Franz '600 perfect songs before I'm 30' Schubert?

― Tim R-J, Monday, 14 May 2007 09:27 (eighteen years ago)

everyone else is after schubert, schurely.

― Frogman Henry, Monday, 14 May 2007 09:32 (eighteen years ago)

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Paul McCartney and Neil Finn.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 14 May 2007 09:56 (eighteen years ago)

Which Mozart songs do you particularly like, Geir?

― Frogman Henry, Monday, 14 May 2007 12:54 (eighteen years ago)

Which Mozart songs do you particularly like, Geir?

All of his Piano Concerto #23, but particularly the middle movement
Symphony #40, first movement
Lacrimosa from "Requiem"
The middle movement from Piano Concerto #21
The Clarinet Concerto

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 14 May 2007 12:55 (eighteen years ago)

hi dere Tim Smith

― Just got offed, Monday, 14 May 2007 13:14 (eighteen years ago)

Hi Geir, can you read?

― Frogman Henry, Monday, 14 May 2007 13:21 (eighteen years ago)

Gene Clark

― dan selzer, Monday, 14 May 2007 14:04 (eighteen years ago)

whoever wrote "when pizza's on a bagel/you can eat pizza any time"

80fucking80

― pretzel walrus, Monday, 14 May 2007 14:06 (eighteen years ago)

Frogman Henry OTM, Mozart's a great composer but not really much on songs as far as I know. Mahler's songs are incredible and give Schubert a run for his money as far as I'm concerned though obviously we're talking about a couple handfuls vs. an embarassment of riches there. Strauss's Four Last Songs are sublime if you can dig some prog, you wonder what he might have done if he'd devoted more time to song.

If we're talking post-jazz pop songs it's either Joni Mitchell or, if we're allowing teams, Holland/Dozier/Holland (sheer number of awesome jams) or Ashford & Simpson (way less great stuff but the heights are fucking dizzying)

if pre-pop-era then there's a lotta jazz/popular song cats who need to be considered

― J0hn D., Monday, 14 May 2007 15:18 (eighteen years ago)

also let's not forget Richie Sambora

― J0hn D., Monday, 14 May 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

Mozart only wrote 40 odd songs; influential, but not groundbreaking.
however if we include his operatic song then yeah, with schubert as the greatest. i did goad geir, because i had a feeling he was talking shit.

― Frogman Henry, Monday, 14 May 2007 15:23 (eighteen years ago)

J0hn OTMFM re: Mahler, especially if Das Lied Von Der Erde is allowed in. From the same era, I'm a strong partisan of Debussy's songs as well. From the late 20c I probably think of George Crumb as the master of the genre. Or mebbe Lutoslawski.

Schubert, there's just so MUCH of it you feel like you can't do it justice. Like someone said in a Duke Ellington thread, you get the feeling you ought to just spend the rest of your listening life digesting it. Or like me you get overwhelmed and end up sticking to a pretty constricted portion of his songs (mostly the cycles and the Goethe settings).

Tossing aside classical, I'll tout for Robyn Hitchcock, Becker/Fagen, Tom Verlaine, Scott Walker (esp from Nite Flights on), Prince, Ray Davies, Da Bea'les, Guy fucking Kyser.

But the above not = a list of my favorite rock/pop acts, as many of the dearest to me are hard to think of as "songwriters" in the sense this thread means it.

― Jon Lewis, Monday, 14 May 2007 15:50 (eighteen years ago)

Another vote for la Mitchell, and one more for Caetano Veloso.

― ellaguru, Monday, 14 May 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

Mozart only wrote 40 odd songs; influential, but not groundbreaking.
however if we include his operatic song then yeah, with schubert as the greatest.

For me, a melody is a song. There is no difference. A song doesn't need to have lyrics to be a song, the only thing it needs is a hummable tune.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 14 May 2007 22:11 (eighteen years ago)

Besides, my main reason for including Mozart was the stress how great McCartney and Finn are. That they belong in the same league as Mozart. :)

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 14 May 2007 22:11 (eighteen years ago)

TO stress, I mean

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 14 May 2007 22:11 (eighteen years ago)

my honorable mention is Michael Hurley, for sure.

no idea what my top ones would be. Joni, Gene Clark, and maybe Dylan are all good choices.

― sleeve, Monday, 14 May 2007 22:21 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.csun.edu/~pubrels/alums/DianeWarren.jpg Everybody knows it's DIANE WARREN who wrote most of the great hits of the past twenty years including the GREATEST SONG OF ALL TIME: http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/s189598.jpg

― Dr. Joseph A. Ofalt, Monday, 14 May 2007 23:54 (eighteen years ago)

AIMEE freakin' MANN! I think she's a little above everybody when it comes to crafting songs. But how can you in good conscience pick just one? Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Tom Waits... Sufjan Stevens!!!
But still, I'd go with Aimee Mann. She is it.
p.s. salut blunt!

― julie, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 02:37 (eighteen years ago)

Oh! And John Darnielle!

― julie, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 02:39 (eighteen years ago)

Sorry, it's the last one. Elliott Smith.

― julie, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 02:41 (eighteen years ago)

As far as popular music goes I would have to say David Sylvian, with Darren Richard (Pinetop Seven)and Joe Henry (his three most recent recordings,especially) are in close proximity. In the realm of modern "classical" I would have to say Charles Ives, most notably "Memories - A Very Pleasant; B - Rather Sad"

― Cliftonb, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 02:58 (eighteen years ago)

hi dere Tim Smith

yay!

currently, Randy Newman kills pretty much everyone I listen to. I wish he could have some modern equivalent of Nilsson doing records of his stuff, because I have a feeling what keeps from the masses is, uh, him.

― Dominique, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 03:19 (eighteen years ago)

This thread makes me sick to my stomach and I don't know why

― Dimension 5ive, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 03:36 (eighteen years ago)

Pizza on a bagel makes me sick

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 03:42 (eighteen years ago)

For me, a melody is a song. There is no difference. A song doesn't need to have lyrics to be a song, the only thing it needs is a hummable tune.

-- Geir Hongro

In that case i'll also include Masonori Adachi/Sotaro Tojima (Super Castlevania IV), Hiroki Kikuta (Seiken Densetsu 2, 3) Nobuo Uematsu and Koji Kondo (Mario/Zelda).

― Cliftonb, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 03:51 (eighteen years ago)

Iannis Xenakis is the greatest songwriter of all time. Him, or Elvis Presley.

― Frogman Henry, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 06:23 (eighteen years ago)

XP Rob Hubbard and Martin Galway are better than those. But still not quite up there with the best. :)

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 10:59 (eighteen years ago)

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