Michigan vs. New York

torn between two lovers...feeling like a fool

these are two out of the three states I've lived in and also my favorite music locales (my birth state ohio can't compare sorry)

Call me an honourary homer - lived my entire life in Ontario, nine different cities, and three of 'em were right on the U.S. border, all three a mere river's width away from Michigan itself, whether north or south or east. But really it's all about the music, and the disproportionate amount of great stuff from the Great Lakes State clinches my vote. I mean, an incredible amount of essential music has originated in NYC, for sure, undeniably. But c'mon, it's The Greatest City In The World, why shouldn't it have a fantastic legacy?

Anyways, Michigan. (And Ohio's pretty righteous itself if you ask me, Mark)

Motown, techno, Stooges/MC5/Alice Cooper, not to mention Madonna, Eminem and the Parliament-Funkadelic empire...vote mitten!

What counts, where a person was born, or where the person found their style and created their most influential work? If that's the case, then for Madonna she's in the New York category.

Michigan, oddly enough, has some pretty good claims to good music.

I think the same holds true for Alice Cooper. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Arizona and L.A. before Detroit. But that doesn't matter; Michigan is beyond loaded.

stooges v. VU

Michigan has produced some great music but this is really no contest. New York City alone trumps it hands down. I never lived in Michigan, but I think I could almost name more amazing genres that came out of NYC than I could individual artists from Michigan. Tin Pan Alley & Broadway (y'know, just the American songbook), hiphop, disco, bebop, free jazz, Greenwich Village folk, No Wave, minimalism ...

If it wasn't for Motown this wouldn't even be close (and even with Motown it's still not that close) and anyone pretending otherwise should be laughed out of the room.

I never lived in Michigan, but I think I could almost name more amazing genres that came out of NYC than I could individual artists from Michigan.

DeBarge family members > number of amazing genres that came out of NYC

Detroit now is sort of what nyc was in the 70s, in terms of living prices.

".... and the Parliament-Funkadelic empire."

They were from Plainfield, New Jersey. Long, long way from Michigan.

If it wasn't for Motown this wouldn't even be close

You gotta problem with Motown?

No, but pretending this isn't anything except Motown vs. New York is silly.

Home vs. Home

surely michigan is also uh, techno and house?

not that i know anything about those genres outside the obvious.

(1929) Montana Taylor - Detroit Rocks

Also, for all the R&R historians who try to find the earliest songs about "rocking" or earliest R&B song to have that sycopated "rocking" beat while mentioning it in the title, I rarely, if ever, see this early Detroit offering:

(1947) Wild Bill Moore - We're Gonna Rock, We're Gonna Roll

And for all the Motown citing, really, let's begin that with Jackie Wilson.

And yeah, MC5/Stooges, etc. and yes, definitely Techno and Miami Bass appreciation 2nd to probably nowhere (not even Florida)!

I should clarify Techno production and Miami Bass appreciation.

And hey, Tommy James was from Kalamazoo (where he first hit with Hanky Panky before being scooped up by Roulette/Morris Levy and relocated).

I thought Tommy James was from Saginaw?

I'm mistaken. According to Wiki, he's from Niles.

"surely michigan is also uh, techno and house?"

I don't buy that Detroit's contributions to the world of techno/house are significantly greater than NYC.

? and the mysterians and J. Dilla and Was (Not Was) and Nugent/Seager if you actually like that stuff (I'll vouch for Amboy Dukes) and I can't speak for house but yes Detroit's contribution to techno is significantly bigger than NYC's

And I guess there are people who like Kid Rock and the White Stripes/ early 2000s garage. I do not but I felt like I'd add it into the conversation. Might as well toss ICP in there too.

Oh Outrageous Cherry has some good stuff.

"I thought it was and that she was telling Pete a half-truth in that she "gave it away."

Maybe in some bullshit rock-crit universe, but in the other universe where people actually went out and danced, disco and garage are still more important than the Detroit techno.

Haha no idea where that quote came from. This is what I mean to respond to:

"I can't speak for house but yes Detroit's contribution to techno is significantly bigger than NYC's"

born, raised, went to college in Michigan vs. now I call NYC home and love it for all the obvious reasons

quite a conundrum for me, you see.

Haha no idea where that quote came from.

It came from "Mad Men", pretty obviously!

Haha okay it did.

TS a working class backwater town that has consistently produced world class music VS A cultural capitol three times its size that cherry picks the best and brightest from the rest of the world.

I would say Detroit simply because it is such an underdog it shouldn't even be able to compete but it does.

Detroit wins just because you have to stop for a second and think about it.

I didn't stop for a second.

Serious question, but is Detroit even the second best US music city?

I voted for Detroit. Plenty of the music I really like out of NYC was made by NYC transplants who went there because that's where the music business is (e.g. Miles, Ayler). My impression is that people have rarely flocked to Detroit; they were there because they were from that area. This is the bullshit criterion I used.

Voted Michigan for 60s Motown and Alice Cooper. But NYC sure has had its share of great music too: Paul Simon, Blondie etc.

Michigan also a worthy vote because of the fact that it can even compete with the metropole that is The Big Apple. Detroit has had an impressive share of great music, actually.

Contrats NY haters you are on the same side as Geir. ;)

DeBarge family members > number of amazing genres that came out of NYC

So OTM that it hit the earth with a planet-destroying force and we are now floating in space thanx to you, Andy K!

Serious question, but is Detroit even the second best US music city?

LA, San Francisco... Even Chicago.... No.

But it's way better than Memphis, Nashville and New Orleans put together. :)

It depends on how you look at it. If you are looking at it from a business perspective it is probably 5th behind New York, LA, Nashville, and Chicago. NYC, LA and Nashville all have very large corporate music businesses with a lot of money and muscle to throw a whole bunch of shit against a wall in the hopes that some of it sticks. Chicago does not have as much business but it has a lot of facilities and is considered a viable option if you don't want to work in the other three markets.

Michigan is arguably the #1 cottage music state in the US. By that I mean that it cranks out more underground, home grown, small business based artists than anywhere but New York. Motown is the best example of a successful Detroit based small business but there are also a million other small labels/distributors that are doing business and having a strong influence around the globe. I am thinking of Submerge, Twilight 76, M50 entertainment. The rock, hip hop and R&B scenes have piles successful career artists.

DeBarge family members > number of amazing genres that came out of NYC

Don't forget about the Winans family.

this thread had promise...

Erm... no. Usual Hongro fail.

Take away the Big Easy, most of this other stuff woulda never happened. Memphis (obv) had a huge impact, and I'd put forth that the only reason that there is a corporate component to the Nashville music scene is the strength of the culture. I agree with the points upthread that talent pool in NYC/LA is so huge has little to do with homegrown heroes, and a lot to do with other economic/geographic factors.

And speaking for my adopted hometown, there's WAY more indie music/business located Chicago than the D, but good point above that Detroit talent is mostly homegrown, whereas Chicago has been regularly restocked with pilgrims from other places, St Louis (AACM etc) and Louisville (Squirrel Bait etc) come to mind, plus, of course, the economy and infrastructure in Detroit is so f*cked that it's amazing that anyone can survive there, so HUGE RESPECT to those that do. (end run-on sentence)

C'mon Pappa Dub... lay on the science.

(1929) Montana Taylor - Detroit Rocks

Also, for all the R&R historians who try to find the earliest songs about "rocking" or earliest R&B song to have that sycopated "rocking" beat while mentioning it in the title, I rarely, if ever, see this early Detroit offering:

(1947) Wild Bill Moore - We're Gonna Rock, We're Gonna Roll

And for all the Motown citing, really, let's begin that with Jackie Wilson.

And yeah, MC5/Stooges, etc. and yes, definitely Techno and Miami Bass appreciation 2nd to probably nowhere (not even Florida)!

― THIS SHIT'S GENETIC SO DON'T WORRY (PappaWheelie V), Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:11 PM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

The hongro fails never make it in the inventory. The really disappointing comments came AFTER the real star of this shit, Display Name:

TS a working class backwater town that has consistently produced world class music VS A cultural capitol three times its size that cherry picks the best and brightest from the rest of the world.

I would say Detroit simply because it is such an underdog it shouldn't even be able to compete but it does.

― I want to edit my profile. (Display Name), Wednesday, October 29, 2008 5:24 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark

that shit so otm we can lock it

I will say New York because I honestly like way more music from there and as much as I hate the self inflated "artistic" importance of the place believe me I am fucking sick to death of dumb fucking guys with goatees

Memphis (obv) had a huge impact

Trouble is that the music from Memphis is largely rubbish. Motown is much better than Stax/Volt in terms of melody, and the early rock stuff from the 50s didn't offer much in terms of melody either. As melody will always be the most important element in all music, Memphis sucks!

And speaking for my adopted hometown, there's WAY more indie music/business located Chicago than the D, but good point above that Detroit talent is mostly homegrown, whereas Chicago has been regularly restocked with pilgrims from other places

Cheap Trick, Pezband and the eponymous band are all homegrown Chicago acts though. All of them great.

Contrats NY haters you are on the same side as Geir. ;)

hey alex did u vote in the SD vs. MBV poll...

not mentioned, but also from Michigan: The Dirtbombs, Grand Funk Railroad, Sufjan Stevens (well he went to college there, and wrote his first 'state' album about it)

Granted, we haven't made any serious attempt to list all the great music coming out of NYC, but the fact that we keep overlooking goodies from the Mitten State implies that it might be more loaded than Prince's discography...

Aretha Franklin was born in Memphis but grew up in Detroit.

It depends on how you look at it. If you are looking at it from a business perspective it is probably 5th behind New York, LA, Nashville, and Chicago. NYC, LA and Nashville all have very large corporate music businesses with a lot of money and muscle to throw a whole bunch of shit against a wall in the hopes that some of it sticks.

In terms of actual corporate music business might Atlanta have more going than Detroit?

That is nowadays.

I'm torn here, as Michigan's best days are passed, and New York just has so damn much. I hated writing about music in Ann Arbor, because so much was predicated upon "Hey, once upon a time, MC5! P-Funk!"

That all said, now that I'm here in LA, I'm amazed at how many bullshit bands can get relatively big without half the talent of the scrappers from Michigan. And I keep listening to my buddies at CousinsVinyl.com, who keep finding these awesome gems from Michigan music history…

It's not that I hate NY—I mean, hell, NY at least has more of a sense of place than LA, which is one of the reasons that I like Michigan music, but I gotta take the underrated Michigan over the overrated NY.

Mitten State

TS: Upper Peninsula vs. Lower Peninsula

"Maybe in some bullshit rock-crit universe, but in the other universe where people actually went out and danced, disco and garage are still more important than the Detroit techno."

That's deranged. Detroit techno saved dance clubs after the disco collapse the world over. The Belleville Three pioneered the dance styles that are still the dominant form some 25 years later. I mean, hell, Frankie Knuckles bought 909 from Derrick May.

I like Dion way more than I do Mustard Plug. I'm going with NYC.

Monaural's "Rhodes"/"Harmonic" > everything by Bowery Electric

"Detroit techno saved dance clubs after the disco collapse the world over."

Total nonsense.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

This has been the most important thread since Nate Dogg Vs The Beatles.

This is definitely an underdog loving crowd.