The 50 Best Scottish Bands Of All Time (as voted for by the public) are as follows:

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Poll Results

OptionVotes
Cocteau twins 15
Sensational Alex Harvey Band 15
Belle & Sebastian 12
Jesus and Mary Chain 12
Orange Juice 8
Associates 7
Boards of Canada 7
Rezillos 5
Vaselines 5
Incredible string band 5
Blue Nile 5
Delgados 4
Teenage Fanclub 4
Arab strap 4
Eurythmics 3
Aztec Camera 3
Beta Band 3
Mogwai 3
Aereogramme 2
Primal Scream 2
Trash Can Sinatras 2
The Pastels 2
Fire Engines 2
Idlewild 2
Shamen 1
Big country 1
The Proclaimers 1
Eddi Reader 1
Spare Snare 1
Altered Images 1
Skids 1
Runrig 1
Nazareth 1
Franz Ferdinand 1
Biffy Clyro 1
Wet Wet Wet 1
Travis 0
Average White Band 0
Lulu 0
Dogs Die in Hot Cars 0
Simple Minds 0
Bay City Rollers 0
Texas 0
Mull historical society 0
Goodbye Mr Mackenzie 0
Snow Patrol 0
Bis 0
Del Amitri 0
Deacon Blue 0
Fish 0


Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Sunday, 9 November 2008 23:55 (seventeen years ago)

who among us does not like the bay city rollers?

ban or astroban? (Curt1s Stephens), Sunday, 9 November 2008 23:56 (seventeen years ago)

I love Travis, but Aztec Camera's fantastic debut album puts them ahead.

Geir Hongro, Sunday, 9 November 2008 23:57 (seventeen years ago)

Predicting a runaway victory for Dogs Die in Hot Cars here.

Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Sunday, 9 November 2008 23:58 (seventeen years ago)

SAHB

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 10 November 2008 00:13 (seventeen years ago)

Fuck it. Aereogramme.

NOW WITH ADDED CAPS (grimly fiendish), Monday, 10 November 2008 00:26 (seventeen years ago)

Cocteaus, obv.

Trayce, Monday, 10 November 2008 00:30 (seventeen years ago)

Although later shite aside, Simple Minds give 'em a run for their money.

Trayce, Monday, 10 November 2008 00:31 (seventeen years ago)

no urusei yatsura no cred

ledge, Monday, 10 November 2008 00:32 (seventeen years ago)

think I'm going w/simple minds here

ban or astroban? (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 10 November 2008 00:33 (seventeen years ago)

ugh

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 10 November 2008 00:33 (seventeen years ago)

Calculated brilliance from Dom, starting a poll Belle & Sebastian are almost guaranteed to win, with 50 candidates making their win all the sweeter.

Dunno which corny indie fuxxor choice out of Mogwai, Beta Band or BoC I'm gonna go for, this will require thought.

restraint and blindness (Just got offed), Monday, 10 November 2008 00:33 (seventeen years ago)

teenage fanclub = perfect distance between proclaimers and corny indie fuxxorz

ledge, Monday, 10 November 2008 00:35 (seventeen years ago)

Del Amitri one place ahead of Orange Juice = OH SNAP MONDEO POP TRIUMPHS OVER THE CRITICAL ORTHODOXY YET AGAIN

Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Monday, 10 November 2008 00:35 (seventeen years ago)

1. Lulu are a band?

2. J&MC 4 the win...

Mark G, Monday, 10 November 2008 00:36 (seventeen years ago)

B&S are probably one of the best 5 bands here, mind. JAMC I am not sure I will ever get, ever. And this is probably heresy coming from a self-avowed Earl Brutus fanatic.

restraint and blindness (Just got offed), Monday, 10 November 2008 00:38 (seventeen years ago)

altered images

thereminimum chips (electricsound), Monday, 10 November 2008 00:39 (seventeen years ago)

^^^ this

velko, Monday, 10 November 2008 00:40 (seventeen years ago)

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2216101584

Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Monday, 10 November 2008 00:42 (seventeen years ago)

http://www.wonzdar.com/cms/upload/bilder/Blue-Nile-01.jpg

yungblut, Monday, 10 November 2008 00:46 (seventeen years ago)

Vaselines!

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 10 November 2008 00:53 (seventeen years ago)

Why isn't there a band that sounds like Bay City Rollers meets J&MC?

Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 10 November 2008 00:54 (seventeen years ago)

this ought to be a pretty predictable poll. Orange Juice and J&MC will battle it out for first, and B+S will be a relatively distant third

Kevin Keller, Monday, 10 November 2008 01:05 (seventeen years ago)

blue nile

Uncle Shavedlongcock (max), Monday, 10 November 2008 01:06 (seventeen years ago)

wheres cozen/pinefox/tim f to back me up

Uncle Shavedlongcock (max), Monday, 10 November 2008 01:06 (seventeen years ago)

blue nile for the balearic vote

yungblut, Monday, 10 November 2008 01:16 (seventeen years ago)

No Marmalade*? No BMX Bandits*? No Adventures in Stereo*? No Long Fin Killie? This list is a farce!

*I wouldn't remotely consider voting for these

Stankonia Notch (unregistered), Monday, 10 November 2008 01:18 (seventeen years ago)

No Josef K would seem to be a limiting factor. Can I write in Iron Virgin?

Michael Train, Monday, 10 November 2008 01:24 (seventeen years ago)

Why isn't there a band that sounds like Bay City Rollers meets J&MC?

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, November 9, 2008 7:54 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://consequenceofsound.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/ramones.jpg

ban or astroban? (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 10 November 2008 01:28 (seventeen years ago)

Lloyd Cole and the Commotions, Soup Dragons and Fairground Attraction are missing as well.

My vote: The Jesus and Mary Chain. Honourable mention: Cocteau Twins and Teenage Fanclub. There are several good bands on the list, actually.

Vision, Monday, 10 November 2008 01:32 (seventeen years ago)

No Sensational Alex Harvey Band - no AC/DC. I just thought I'd insert that cautionary note.

moley, Monday, 10 November 2008 02:39 (seventeen years ago)

Sorry, Scottish music really doesn't seem to do it for me. I think my favourite song by anyone on that list is Somewhere in My Heart, haha.

chap, Monday, 10 November 2008 02:44 (seventeen years ago)

somewhere in my heart seems like a good song to sing with a band before you propose to someone

❤ⓛⓞⓥⓔ❤ (CaptainLorax), Monday, 10 November 2008 05:16 (seventeen years ago)

the Jesus and Mary Chain is the correct answer but they will get enough votes. so this race is for second and with that it goes to the Delgados for their run of The Great Eastern, Hate, and Universal Audio. what a great band!

Bee OK, Monday, 10 November 2008 06:18 (seventeen years ago)

OTM, but don't forget Peloton (their best IMO). Personally, while their material was consistently excellent, I never thought the Friddman makeover suited their sound.

Sugar hiccup, Makes a pig soar and swoon (Pillbox), Monday, 10 November 2008 06:30 (seventeen years ago)

Alasdair Roberts

sam500, Monday, 10 November 2008 06:32 (seventeen years ago)

Nevermind Scottish, Cocteau Twins are one of my favorite bands period.

LeRooLeRoo, Monday, 10 November 2008 06:32 (seventeen years ago)

^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the correct answer.

jonathan - stl, Monday, 10 November 2008 06:59 (seventeen years ago)

I feel like JAMC could use some love after getting trashed in the last poll.

Millsner, Monday, 10 November 2008 07:13 (seventeen years ago)

Nevermind Scottish, Cocteau Twins are one of my favorite bands period.

― LeRooLeRoo, Monday, 10 November 2008 06:32 (41 minutes ago) Permalink

^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the correct answer.

― jonathan - stl, Monday, 10 November 2008 06:59 (14 minutes ago) Permalink

thirded.

sleeve, Monday, 10 November 2008 07:15 (seventeen years ago)

The Exploited were robbed.

I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE UP TO (Colonel Poo), Monday, 10 November 2008 07:56 (seventeen years ago)

The Skids, closely followed by the Rezillos, then the JAMC, then SAHB. There is a lot of horrible, horrible stuff on that list, though.

Soukesian, Monday, 10 November 2008 08:07 (seventeen years ago)

I couldn't decide between JAMC and Orange Juice, so I voted for B&S.

Tape Store, Monday, 10 November 2008 08:09 (seventeen years ago)

With a sad lack of Urusei Yatsura on the list my personal choice was easy: Mogwai.

krakow, Monday, 10 November 2008 08:19 (seventeen years ago)

Missing: Middle of the Road, The Orchids and Reindeer Section.

I'll go for the ethereal cotton sound though: Cocteau Twins.

alex in mainhattan, Monday, 10 November 2008 08:30 (seventeen years ago)

i'm surprised i've heard so many bands from such a shithole. j/k!!! i voted orange juice but i should have voted cocteaus.

Matt P, Monday, 10 November 2008 09:31 (seventeen years ago)

Associates!!!

Honourable mentions to Orange Juice, TFC, SAHB, Vaselines, Pastels, Bill Wells, Dick Gaughan, JAMC, Cocteaus, Josef K, Fire Engines, Ali Roberts, Richard Youngs etc etc.

Current fave rave Scottish acts... Tattie Toes, Desalvo, Triple School, Kylie Minoise, Gay Against You, Nalle, Plates, Gummy Stumps, Dananananaykroyd...

Stew, Monday, 10 November 2008 09:47 (seventeen years ago)

Were John Martyn there, that would have been my pick. Dunno who wins in his absence. Also, I'm pulling my sad doggy face at the lack of Dog Faced Hermans.

NickB, Monday, 10 November 2008 10:05 (seventeen years ago)

Many xposts: Don't you mean the Exploited wuz robbed?

OJ ftw.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Monday, 10 November 2008 11:17 (seventeen years ago)

And JAMC: Don't count unless they caused a riot on home turf.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Monday, 10 November 2008 11:19 (seventeen years ago)

Thread needs one of Marcello's Bobby skits

Ich Ber ein Binliner (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 November 2008 16:18 (seventeen years ago)

NO!

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 13 November 2008 16:19 (seventeen years ago)

Betas fo sho.

fourfoldvision, Thursday, 13 November 2008 20:39 (seventeen years ago)

I voted for Spare Snare, but only because after moaning to myself that there was a whole load of others that should have been included from The Scars to El Hombre Trajedo, Biggest surprise to be missing in that the had hits and stuff would be Danny Wilson

Sandy Blair, Thursday, 13 November 2008 21:01 (seventeen years ago)

Ivor Cutler or Momus!

This Idlewild at #3 as originally 'voted for by the public' - need one have heard them?

Nag! Nag! Nag!, Thursday, 13 November 2008 21:59 (seventeen years ago)

no king creosote no cred either

― ❤ⓛⓞⓥⓔ❤ (CaptainLorax), Tuesday, November 11, 2008 3:51 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I love King Creosote! Although I'm a little surprised to find ILM love for him. Voted Cocteaus, anyway, as they're one of the bands I've loved longest.

Lostandfound, Thursday, 13 November 2008 22:22 (seventeen years ago)

(a post full of love)

Lostandfound, Thursday, 13 November 2008 22:23 (seventeen years ago)

Predict Cocteau's landslide because they capture a whole demographic indifferent to pop from planet Scotland.

derelict, Thursday, 13 November 2008 22:28 (seventeen years ago)

You hoping all the B&S fans have left for livejournal?

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Thursday, 13 November 2008 22:30 (seventeen years ago)

This Idlewild at #3 as originally 'voted for by the public' - need one have heard them?

― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Thursday, 13 November 2008 21:59 (55 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

They have one great song:

Everything else is 90th rate "New Adventures In Hi-Fi" bullshit.

Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Thursday, 13 November 2008 22:55 (seventeen years ago)

Although they're actually Big Boi's favourite band, hence the name of the Outkast movie.

Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Thursday, 13 November 2008 22:58 (seventeen years ago)

As it is, I voted for the Rezillos - "Mission accomplished but the beat still goes on", well, you can't really fault it, can you?

Yeah, it's badly recorded and the singing is godawful at times. You don't mean "Can't Stand The Rezillos" do you?

everything, Thursday, 13 November 2008 23:21 (seventeen years ago)

whole of idlewild's second album (which has that track on) is gold. first one was punkier (tho i've never really heard it), then they went all REM.

ledge, Thursday, 13 November 2008 23:23 (seventeen years ago)

that song *is* from their first album, unless you're counting captain as an album (which it isn't)

thereminimum chips (electricsound), Thursday, 13 November 2008 23:33 (seventeen years ago)

you are correct. well the whole of their second album sounds like that then, dunno what the rest of the first one sounds like. third album + is rem territory.

ledge, Thursday, 13 November 2008 23:36 (seventeen years ago)

i think i always thuoght that "when i argue i see shapes" was just a standalone single.

ledge, Thursday, 13 November 2008 23:37 (seventeen years ago)

for some reason

ledge, Thursday, 13 November 2008 23:37 (seventeen years ago)

yeah they lost me at the third album. everything up to and including the second lp is really good

xpost

thereminimum chips (electricsound), Thursday, 13 November 2008 23:37 (seventeen years ago)

they'd probably be my third choice, after teenage fanclub and boc.

ledge, Thursday, 13 November 2008 23:42 (seventeen years ago)

o wait i forgot about mogwai.

proclaimers in at five.

ledge, Thursday, 13 November 2008 23:42 (seventeen years ago)

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Friday, 14 November 2008 00:01 (seventeen years ago)

suck that snow patrol

thereminimum chips (electricsound), Friday, 14 November 2008 00:01 (seventeen years ago)

Joint winners I can live with.

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 14 November 2008 00:19 (seventeen years ago)

Simple Minds and Deacon Blue with 0 pleases me too.

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 14 November 2008 00:21 (seventeen years ago)

At Indian Summer, Glasgow's "boutique" festival where the sushi stall was actually a whelk stall, Idlewild appeared as the "mystery guests". It was like getting sports socks for Christmas.
They were a good, fun, noisy punk band circa Captain, but they've gotten so boring since then. Although they're compared to REM a lot, to my mind, they sound more like Runrig if they've heard a Fugazi album. Except not as interesting. Their contribution to that Ballad Of The Books project (which was pretty disappointing overall, far too reverent) was so dreary - an earnest stadium folk rock setting of an Edwin Morgan poem. Our national bard deserves better! A filthy Desalvo version of One Cigarette or Strawberries, bringing out the homoeroticism: now yr talking!
Anyways, no complaints about the ILM poll results, although Associates top the poll for me. They're so gloriously un-Scottish, which isn't to suggest some kind of essentialist notion of Scottishness 'cos obviously all that national identity stuff is a construction and a load of bollocks, but their gorgeous, skewed, sensual art-pop is hardly the first thing you'd associate with Dundee, let alone Scotland as a whole. The bit in Party Fears Two where Billie exclaims "RELEASE MEEEEE!!!!" is one of the most transcendant moments in pop EVER!
Apologies, I'm slightly tipsy. Carry on, nothing to see here...

Stew, Friday, 14 November 2008 00:29 (seventeen years ago)

Did Louis vote Biffy Clyro?

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 14 November 2008 00:58 (seventeen years ago)

i hope so

actually a little surprised to see no votes at all for bis

thereminimum chips (electricsound), Friday, 14 November 2008 01:10 (seventeen years ago)

only 2 for primal scream, then again it is ILM

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 14 November 2008 01:19 (seventeen years ago)

wow, there are 50 scottish bands

Edward III, Friday, 14 November 2008 01:30 (seventeen years ago)

j/k I love dawson they were awesome

and dog faced hermans, the secret winners of this poll

Edward III, Friday, 14 November 2008 01:41 (seventeen years ago)

i don't see Aztec Camera, who were much better than orange juice, to say the least, on this list

outdoor_miner, Friday, 14 November 2008 01:42 (seventeen years ago)

No they weren't better at all!

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 14 November 2008 01:45 (seventeen years ago)

Stealers Wheel and The Humblebums...

Lincolnshire, Friday, 14 November 2008 08:37 (seventeen years ago)

Simple Minds and Deacon Blue with 0 pleases me too.

Ridiculous, Simple Minds were great, admittedly then they were shite but...

Ich Ber ein Binliner (Tom D.), Friday, 14 November 2008 10:25 (seventeen years ago)

Well I grew up when they were shite and I hated them.

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 14 November 2008 16:38 (seventeen years ago)

Good work not letting B&S win this everyone.

Chopper Aristotle (Matt DC), Friday, 14 November 2008 16:39 (seventeen years ago)

SAHB doing "Next" on the Old Grey Whistle Test may be one of my favourite TV performances of a song:

Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Friday, 14 November 2008 16:46 (seventeen years ago)

There used to be a better version of this on youtube. It was stunning

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 14 November 2008 17:33 (seventeen years ago)

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Friday, 14 November 2008 17:35 (seventeen years ago)

HA, FUCK OFF, BELLE AND SEBASTIAN.

I'm pretty happy with this. Aereogramme garnered 100% more votes than I expected, for a start.

grimly fiendish, Saturday, 15 November 2008 13:07 (seventeen years ago)

You don't mean "Can't Stand The Rezillos" do you?

Yes, I do, goddamn it! Thx for correction to my faulty memory.

Pashmina, Saturday, 15 November 2008 14:54 (seventeen years ago)

Grimly seems happy B&S lost

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Saturday, 15 November 2008 14:57 (seventeen years ago)

were aztec camera omitted out of spite? cause that seems like a major oversight

psychgawsple, Saturday, 15 November 2008 17:05 (seventeen years ago)

Between The Eurythmics and The Beta Band, dunny.

Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Saturday, 15 November 2008 17:07 (seventeen years ago)

Pfunkboy you NEED to buy one copy each of "Sons & Fascination" and "New Gold Dream", seriously.

Pashmina, Saturday, 15 November 2008 17:08 (seventeen years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7744539.stm

Scottish indie band Orange Juice have lifted the lifetime achievement honour at the Tartan Clef awards.

The Fratellis were also among the big winners at the ceremony, which was held at the Old Fruit Market in Glasgow's Merchant City.

Sharleen Spiteri won the outstanding contribution award, while The Almighty lifted the Scottish rock award.

The event raises money for the Nordoff-Robbins charity which promotes the use of music therapy.

Orange Juice singer Edwyn Collins was a leading figure on the alternative Scottish scene in the late 1970s and 1980s, forming his first band, Nu-Sonics, aged 17.


I'm working again, writing songs again, slowly
Edwyn Collins

Emotional reunion for Orange Juice
They became Orange Juice, who were independent favourites and briefly broke into the mainstream with Rip It Up in 1983.

He went on to pursue a solo career, making an impact with A Girl Like You, a top 10 hit in seven countries in 1995.

"I'm working again, writing songs again, slowly," said Collins after the event.

"It's thanks to the therapy that I was able to find my voice again and it's getting better all the time."

Mary Brown, executive director of Nordoff-Robbins Music Therapy in Scotland, said: "Funds raised from the Tartan Clef Music Awards are crucial as they help to secure the continuation of music therapy sessions for the many children and adults accessing the services.

"Nordoff-Robbins Music Therapy in Scotland is looking to expand and develop its work, so it is hoped that the increased profile the Tartan Clef Music Awards brings will enable even more children and adults to receive music therapy."

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 23 November 2008 20:49 (seventeen years ago)


Emotional reunion for Orange Juice

By Pauline McLean
BBC Scotland Arts Correspondent

It was an emotional day for the original line-up of the Scottish band Orange Juice.

Edwyn Collins
Edwyn Collins was joined by his family at the awards
Not only was it the first time the band have been back together in more than 20 years, but they were presented with a Lifetime Achievement award at the Tartan Clefs.

The awards - presented at the Old Fruitmarket in Glasgow - celebrate the Scottish music industry, at the same time raising funds for Nordoff-Robbins music therapy in Scotland. It's a charity close to the heart of singer Edwyn Collins, who's used the therapy himself since suffering a double brain haemorrhage three years ago.

"I'm working again, writing songs again, slowly," said Collins after the event.

"It's thanks to the therapy that I was able to find my voice again and it's getting better all the time."

Postcard Records

Earlier in the day the band returned to the "headquarters" of their old record label Postcard. There are apparently plans to erect a blue plaque outside this ordinary tenement flat which in the early 80s was responsible for producing some of the most innovative music of the day. Current bands like Franz Ferdinand admit the label hugely influenced their own work.

But reuniting the original line-up of Orange Juice - who were last together in 1983 - was easier than it sounded. Although Collins remained in the business, the others have found new pursuits in other parts of the world.

Sharleen Spiteri
Sharleen Spiteri said her award came as a complete surprise
Bassist David McClymont now lives in Australia and writes for the travel series Lonely Planet. Guitarist James Kirk - who also wrote many of the band's early songs - is now a chiropodist based in Glasgow. And drummer Steven Daly is a journalist for the US magazine Vanity Fair.

"We've kept in touch with each other over the years but never actually got together like this," said David.

"It's amazing what Edwyn has achieved since his illness. That's why we all thought it was important to get together again."

Also receiving awards - and performing at Saturday night's ceremony - were Hue and Cry, Eddie Reader, Dougie MacLean, The Almighty, The Fratellis and Sharleen Spiteri.

Sharleen Spiteri's award - presented by her close friend, the comedian Peter Kay - came as a huge surprise to her.

"People kept saying 'you should bring your mum and dad' and I was thinking, but they've seen me sing a hundred times. And then I saw Peter here and I thought, that's a bit weird.

"It's a great honour to receive this award. I was involved in a therapy session recently and I know how important this work is."

Another surprise win was the new award for Best Live Act - voted for by the public. Despite competition from current favourites Glasvegas, it was an unsigned band which won the public vote, although Beecake have the advantage of having Lord of the Rings star Billy Boyd as their front man.

The event was expected to raise at least £70,000 for the charity.

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 23 November 2008 20:49 (seventeen years ago)

Beecake? Sounds like they motivated their fanbase to get online and vote. As many times as possible. Ah well, if Belle & Sebastian can do it...
Really though, Beecake????!!!!

Stew, Sunday, 23 November 2008 23:09 (seventeen years ago)

Yeah Kerr srsly you have to hear EARLY Simple Minds: Empires and Dance, Sons & Fascination, New Gold Dream - theyre nothing like the bloated stadium rock that came after.

Trayce, Monday, 24 November 2008 03:08 (seventeen years ago)

It's weird to think Edwyn Collins wrote "A Girl Like You" before he got brain damage.

Me and Ruth Lorenzo, Rollin' in the Benzo (Noodle Vague), Monday, 24 November 2008 08:41 (seventeen years ago)


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