Less Critical

I'm a great believer in first impressions - certainly when it comes to pop music (in broadest sense). If after two listens the record hasn't grabbed me, it's doomed. Different story with contemporary composers - stuff like Stockhausen and Elliot Carter I will persevere with - but this can be attributed to the fact that I am a classically- trained musician so am interested in understanding why the notes were arranged by the composer in the way they are.

it depends. there has been stuff that i have not liked, but it must have had something to make me continue to give it a chance. i did not like autechre, happy mondays, piano magic or tom waits when i heard them first, but there was something intriguing nevertheless, it was this unknown element that pulled me back, and convinced me to persevere, these are now amongst my favourite artists.

so, i do not have to like a record straight away, but i do have to hear something that is enough for me to try again. if it lacks even that, it is less likely yes. but a lot of this is also context, *where* do i hear something? *when* do i hear something? so, there is always that chance element...

but there was something intriguing nevertheless, it was this unknown element that pulled me back

ahh the intrigue, the unknown, the unexpected, the mystery, I like what Im hearing with this uncritical approach, such virtues are in short supply in this over analytical instant age.

Pretty much what gareth said. I probably make snap judgments more quickly than I used to, butI will persist with some things. I generally will not persist unless there is already something that I like or something that intrigues me about the music. In some cases, even if there is something I like about the music, I may give it up because there is something else that simply annoys me too much.

What Jeff W said also makes sense to me. I am more willing to make snap judgments about pop music, because usually it is more transparent what is going on musically. On the other hand, I don't have any musical training, so I can't apply that to say, Elliot Carter, one of whose recordings I recently returned to the library in a hurry.

I keep everything these days cos
1. I may return to a disliked album and rilly rilly like it, which has happened quite a few times recently;
2. 2nd hand shops give you about £2 for an album you payed £10+ for.

yes, i got used to the same ideas turning up -- music is like a quest for new ideas for me

and yes, i reckon i got more discerning and experienced as a music listener generally and maybe now have more just specific things only that i want from music, music that once might have provided more general "relief" -- ie i'm now better at finding what i want, recognising that thing in a record quicker, or just recognising it and flicking it -- don't need to hear it again but glad i did

the "i don't have time" or "am i wasting valuable time here ?" thing has struck me the most though -- growing up !!?? -- i used to use music as this relief thing, this general time-out escapist thing -- i had more time and less experience so i accepted more music for longer, and music was a big fashion item in my "counter-culture"

my self education in music became the rejection of most of it or the search for the best, and as i moved out of university style life into more regimented living listening to music became finding the fastest or most efficient bang per buck (as time runs out) -- "ideas fast" became the yardstick

i still think i wasted many thousands of dollars and hours on music at an earlier age when it seemed so important -- now that i have lot's of other stuff to do all the time i really have to justify time spent just listening or listening with others without talking (which is better but very hard to get to actually happen), but that means that when i do bother to listen it's to seemingly or hopefully un- indulgent music or important music or new ideas music or something like that, so music's become being serious about having fun

i still hate a lot of pop music, or perhaps myself for falling for it, because i always get sick of pop music, play it too many times, learn something that's probably pretty useless -- so i hate the music industry because in some ways it's just like the nicotine industry -- i feel i'm owed a chunk of my adolescance back

i think uncritical listening is really bad -- to me it's going back in time, unlearning, or at least just treading water

well known examples ? well Stockhausen is a good one, also Braxton, both of whom i really thought were almost fraud once -- those guys have payed off over the last 20 years -- layers and revelations continue to happen that aren't due to simple cosy familiararity -- these guys still keep me on my toes

becoming more critically alert as you age = realising that critical judgments taken in earlier years were often silly => i like and find interesting and rewarding FAR more things now than i did 20 yrs ago (when i wz a stunted little punXoR troll basically)

when i decide i can't be bothered with things (haha the jam or negativland for example), i tend to make a big flouncy excessive self-mocking thing of it, because deep down i am still much more unsure of my dislikes than my likes

(my dislikes in music, that is: in writing, i am stone certain of my likes and dislikes, and as a professional proof-reader and sub-editor i am STILL a stunted little punXoR troll)

I was also a stunted little punxOR troll *in some ways*. Although I was self-handicapped *back in the old days* by clinging to a year zero fixation for too long, I would happily try to get my head around virtually anything as long as it was by my 'list of approved punXOR artists'. I was delighted with 'Sandinista', but wouldn't have considered listening to Mose Allison, say, or Genesis. (Let's leave the 'The Clash were/weren't punXOR argument for another day!). I ran a parallel disco and pop-loving existence alongside being punXOR, but let's leave that out of this - it'll only complicate matters.

kiwi, i feel i should add that perhaps what pulled me back was largely an analytical curiosity, i cannot say i enjoyed those artists musics until i had 'pulled' them apart, so to speak, to see how they ticked. it was only then that i began to relate to the artists mentioned above (most other artists i appreciated straight away)

If I don't undestand a record upon first listen but I feel there's something interesting then what tends to happen is that I'll put on the shelf and it'll lie in there for months, almost as if I'm scared of it. Eventually I'll pick it up again and like it.

''Anyway, I'm now making a real effort to revert back to more 'uncritical' listening and it's paying off.''

Right now, I could never do that! I am busy and the time I spend listening to music is prob at its lowest but now I feel I gained critical faculties I can't deny them.

''Any examples of music you persevered with and eventually liked while fighting the urge to dislike it?''

Two examples: Trout mask.. and Paul Dolden. The latter released a monstrously dense double album and his compositions are fucking crazy and I hated it the first listen but I realised he was doing something I'd never heard before so I decided that I liked that and I stuck to it.

It's a good question...*thinks*...as I've muttered elsewhere, I've found myself listening less and less often to new albums that I do like, it's more an instant devouring and then moving on. I'm not sure whether that means I'm more accepting or not or something...I do know I don't take time to puzzle out something I don't like, for the most part. It's more like, "Well, that sucked. Anyway." As the whole Andrew WK thing showed, these days I'm think I'm more wrought up by things that should work but fail than things that fail, period.