has anyone read ocean of sound by david toop?

Sure did. Liked it a lot. Interesting mix of interviews, essays, dreams, travels and theories. Very well written. One of my favorite books on music, up there with Blissed Out, More Brilliant..., Psychotic Reactions and The Dark Stuff.

Robin did you know a lot of music he writes about? I was thinking maybe that can be a factor. At the time I already knew most of the stuff he's on about, but I'm not sure this adds or takes away from the enjoyment.

Yes: brilliant as regards "go out and find this overlooked/forgotten item" dimension. Rubbish as to structure: he needed a good editor to browbeat him (tho some readers loved this aspect too) into a better collision between history and anti-history. Overall theory: seems more impressive than perhaps it is, courtesy his vast KNOWLEDGE. Love the section on the shamanic snot-fest.

yes, otherwise i wouldn't be answering. will anyone come into this thread to say "no"? perhaps the pinefox given his recent postings, perhaps he'll come in and ask "what is ocean of sound?" i can only hope! ;)

anyway, toop obviously enjoys the music he's writing about, knows much about it, and it shows and as far as a pointing you towards some records you may want to hear and haven't, it's great.

on the other hand, i too frequently found toop insufferable. be it his indulgence into writing styles that really didn't work for him, or, as he won't let you forget that he's a musician, the self- importance that suffused some of the work and the unnecessary condescension that came to play whenever he mentioned a band he didn't like when discussing a conversation he had with someone else, e.g. "so-and-so brought up the work of that-band (who i, just so you know, don't much like but that's neither here nor there)."

ultimately, though, it was the worth the read.

Best of all was the companion cd which is still a favourite in my house.

Yeah - I read it, its good but not a mustav - liked the cover and feel of it - I don't like how it's set out and I've hated other stuff he's written - well wanky exotica drivel esp. - funny that I never return to it as much as More Brilliant or Eric Tamms' Eno book

"insufferable"? You're a man of little patience, Fred.

not patience, josh. tolerance.

What is 'Ocean of Sound'?

The first half was brilliant. The second half was sleep-inducing. Then again, what do I know? I am still trying to finish "Aesthetics of Rock". I am just one of the dumb dumb girls.

No one ever "finishes" the Aesthetics of Rock. That's the point.

You're on a computer, pinefox. Why don't you go to amazon and look it up?

Read it via the index, the artists who's music you know. I found that a far more satisfying way go, gradually I read around the bits I knew and it revealed more than it did when I tried to 'get' through it. Think of it like a record, some bits are catchy, others more obscure. True Toop does get caught up in his own reverie, but that's what I eventually went back to, the diversions I ignored the first time. If it's not happening, put it down, but it pays to revisit it when you're in the appropriate state of mind.

i was supposed to read it as research for my dissertation on sound art. i started, but with all the other stuff to read, i just didn't find it engaging enough and abandoned it. perhaps i'll go back to it once i'm furthur into my research. if anyone wants to give me any pointers for the dissertation that would be great. i'm looking at contemporary sound art, the context of sound within fine art and the crossover between music and sound art. looking at toop's sonic boom exhibition, particularly christina kubish also brain eno etc etc. please feel free to email me with useful tips its getting frustrating! also, is it worth me going back to ocean of sound for another try?

apologies to brian eno for spelling his name wrong

Pretty well agree with MS. As with what I can remember from DT's writing in the Wire at the time, raises awkward questions about what and how you write when you've just been bereaved, which at the time of "Ocean" he had been (doubly so - wife and father) and this seems to my inexpert eye to be the absent "core" of the book, that which he is writing (or swimming) around but over-careful not to collide with, if my somewhat laborious analogy makes any sense.

melissa he likes THAT misspelling

wow, 3 years later, it looks like i'm writing melissa's dissertation. right down to having a copy of the "sonic boom" catalogue staring me in the face.

Haven't gotten to OCEAN yet, but comparing his new book HAUNTED WEATHER with its listening companion (sold sep, but forcedexposure.com prob still has both), and those to his own pperformances with Max Eastley on their DOLL CREATURE, I think his greatest gift maybe as compiler. the OCEAN disc is OOP, isn't it?And several prev. comps too (see robertchristgau.com for some I'd lovvve to find, like SUGAR AND POISON; anybody got any leads?) I wrote about HW very briefly, but it's a taste: www.villagevoice.com/issues/0431/allred.php

I think josh's admonishment of the pinefox was a little harsh, give the context.

yeah, i mean the pf was just following through on the joke.

Marcello OTM. Toop's back-of-the-magazine columns in the wire were incredible - especially towards the end when he was so obvioulsy breaking-down. they were very moving and surprising.

This book was hugely inspiring to me because at the time, I'd never come across a book that really addressed MY music ... the bookstores always had 5938 books about the Beatles or Hendrix or 70's heavy metal, whereas I was thinking, "why can't somebody write a book about AMBIENT"? And one day, I was in the store, and there it was.

I suspect it is extremely difficult to follow if you're unfamiliar with the music, and Toop often uses seven adjectives when one will do. But the breadth of the book is fascinating (although this causes its focus to wander all over the place), and the wealth of andecdotes and interviews collected within make it a keeper.

Some good DT essays in Wire online archive too.

I saw a 2nd hand copy of 'haunted weather' a while back but I didn't pick it up bcz when i looked back at the discography I thought that I knew so much more about this kind of thing (yuk having just written that it's so NOT true) -- it seemed like it ws a new ed of 'ocean of sound' rather than a new bk.

I quite enjoyed his epiphany column in the wire about Korean music. Anyone heard much of it? (I had this curiosity about things like chinese opera and did a thread on it.) He still has this skill of just writing an amazing two-three line description that wd make you run to yr LPs, only if you actually had them! It did seem that he had a larger point but he ran out of space, like he wanted to cram so much in so we end up bites to think abt. Funnily enough that reminded me of 'ocean of sound' even though it isn't as restricted but he still runs out: records themselves are more interesting to talk abt than what they might signify etc.