The Eminem Show

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Have you heard it? Do you like it?

― Sean, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Is he still as sexy as ever?

― Sean, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

What did I mutter...keep five songs, toss the rest? Still my belief.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Did we do this already? My apologies. In any case, 5 good songs isn't a bad reason to buy a record. Or in this case CD with bonus DVD.

― Sean, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ned I think your number of songs to save is steadily climbing!

― Josh, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

oh and Sean I love it. I would guess that you would too, as long as you like rap enough.

I just wish that Aerosmith sample wasn't there.

― Josh, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Nah, I said there was five at that one point. Let's see..."Without Me," "White America," "Soldier," two others, I believe. Sounds about right.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It should also be noted that I like said tracks not for him, but because of the music. I think I have made it clear that his supposed technical ability leaves me shrugging.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"My Dad's Gone Crazy" is maddeningly catchy.

― clotion, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Wasn't one of the other ones "Square Dance", Ned?

― Dan Perry, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm just listening to it for the third time. I think it's excellent, as good as his first, though not the masterpiece that Mathers was. I even think the singing track sort of works, in a complex Postmodern way.

― Martin Skidmore, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

well i've just downloaded "square dance" and it's the most arresting song I've heard in..oh, a long time.

― Mitch Lastnamewithheld, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

My take on it: "Nobody listens to techno" (except for your producers, you cockfarmer). Eminem proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is an artist I can only listen to in small doses.

― Dan Perry, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Well, Sean, if you ever go ahead and buy the record, make sure to upload it somewhere immediately as Eminem promises to "... meet the [expletive]... " who does such a thing. That way, your dream date is secured!

― Brian MacDonald, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Eminem co-produced that track, and either produced or co-produced (more of the former I think) most of the rest of the album!

― Josh, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

saying there are only five good songs but saying they are good only because of the backing track and not the rap = you are a rap mentalist not to be trusted with my rap cd dollars

― Josh, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Never claimed *not* to be a rap mentalist. And you are welcome to him. ;-) He functions as a interesting contrast to the music at points, but surely most MCs would.

"Square Dance," yes, that was it, and let's see...ah, "Till I Collapse," that was the other.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

please, just...stop.

― jess, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

just cordoning your mentalist area off with my yellow tape, see, so everyone is aware

'but surely most mcs would': at the very least I would think you could hear his raps as sound, in which case they still add something distinctive. the way the rhymes are accented + the way he has of piling up rhymes = rhythmically !!. the list of mcs he gives (in 'collapse'?) and includes himself in has some sense to it!

― Josh, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Eminem co-produced that track, and either produced or co-produced (more of the former I think) most of the rest of the album!

... Nope, I still think he's a cockfarmer.

― Dan Perry, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

just cordoning your mentalist area off with my yellow tape, see, so everyone is aware

Woohoo!

at the very least I would think you could hear his raps as sound

Can't not hear them that way, at least. They're there. Again, *shrug*

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Says on my copy of Without Me that he produced it, and it was co- produced by Jeff Bass, and mixed by Dr Dre.

― Nick, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

please...just, stop.

― jess, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

In answer to your third question, Sean--yes, the little shitkicker. He looks adorable in the new Face.

― Arthur, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ah...ha...ha hahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh mercy

― ethan, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You're not laughing at the album, right, just all the dumb shit people are saying about it?

― Dan I., Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, yeah, which means I like it. I like most of it more than most of the other two albums.

― Dan I., Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The other two that I've heard, I mean. Was there more? I didn't bother with the whole d12 fiasco...

― Dan I., Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm laughing at the album too because the punchlines are his best ever!!

― ethan, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Re that NME article: why is "fucker" left intact but "motherfucker" asteriskified?

― Nate Patrin, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Er, not "fucker", but "fucking". Important distinction. Oops.

― Nate Patrin, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Re: that article. Why is he wearing Kurt Cobain's old jumper?

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

the d12 'fiasco' is fucking great!!

― ethan, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It's an odd album. Several good jokes. Too many riffs. I agree with the larffter above.

― Tom, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

how can there be too many riffs?

― mark s, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

mark theres an aerosmith solo

― ethan, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

are jess and ethan larfing becuz ppl w/o "Qualified to Discuss HipHop" badges are contributing injudiciously?

― mark s, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I AM HIPHOP

― ethan, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i wasn't laughing!!

― jess, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

If they weren't qualified nobody would be replying, Mark.

― Tom, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

aerosmith rock

― mark s, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm still not sure where the Aerosmith one is. I just meant in general.

― Tom, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not qualified, so I'm not saying anything about this one...

― Nicole, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

this is what i know about hiphop: nas, mobb deep and aerosmith

― mark s, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

buh buh the Who, Mark

― cuba libre (nathalie), Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

the who are techno

― mark s, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Glitch?

― cuba libre (nathalie), Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

no, i have to drive home, thank you all the same

― mark s, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

It was interesting that Em thinks that "nobody listens to techno" but at the DEMF you could not get away from the Eminem commerical that was being looped all the time on the big screens between acts.

― mt, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

what makes you think he thinks that? because he said it? because those words came out of his mouth? what does that have to do with what he actually thinks? are you all kidding?

― Stuart, Tuesday, 28 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Skipping 79 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I've got a lot of shit on the table right now, Frank! Ned's just supposed to believe me until I get around to actually showing my work.

― Josh, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I have doubts, Josh. ;-) It's a very good article, Frank, but I can't shake the feeling (now adjusting my 'compare to the classic rock guy' comparison a bit -- this just occured to me last night) that Eminem is a new Bob Dylan, in the sense of a lot of baggage brought to the table when talking about his lyrics and their relation to These Modern Times (and a lot of talk about the unique qualities of his voice and how that's part of the importance, not necessarily lyrically). Not bad things at all, I should note, but in and of themselves not compelling reasons to explain to me *why* I should be caring more, if you get the drift -- which is how I feel about both Dylan and Eminem in many ways. I can't force myself into a connection that I don't feel -- and the Eminem persona has always struck me as incredibly boring when dealt with on its own away from the music. The lyrical analysis doesn't make me think any differently of that persona; it is relentlessly *non*-fascinating and uncomplicated to me. He does seem to make an interesting figure for extended reader-response theory, I'll allow -- but that does not produce universal results, by its very definition (which again perhaps restates my earlier point).

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Another quick thought right now -- arguably (not definitely, merely arguably), the more complicated persona is the seemingly more simple one. Who is more surprising to you and I (keeping in mind you and I are being called the norm here, a temporary violation of my stance to consider the point) -- someone who hasn't resolved all their issues or someone who has beyond all shadows of all doubts? The former may be more 'real' but the latter is more strange and alien in contrast, at least to me.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ashley Judd to thread!!

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ashley Judd? You've lost me there! ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

She's the chocolate to Eminem's peanut butter, per your formulation above. And I have fleeting moments of morbid fascination with her. But if they were both at the same party I know who I'd rather being hanging out with.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ashley Judd = Eminem in a wig.

― Dan Perry, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But is the person you want to hang out with at a party the same person you want thrilling your soul musically? ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(It should be noted that in that party situation I would either read a book, talk to the help staff or escape through a window, likely enough. I'm terrible at parties where I don't know anyone to begin with!)

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But we both knoew AJ and Eminem so well

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That we do! Hurrah!

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Party!

― Sean, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hard?

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No- 'til you PUKE

― Nate Patrin, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

what makes you think he thinks that? because he said it? because those words came out of his mouth? what does that have to do with what he actually thinks? are you all kidding?

What I find offputting is that the above is the truest thing ever and against certain intellectual judgments of my own I find it completely impossible to enjoy things on that level -- the level of sayings things just for the immediate effect of saying them and not owning or meaning them or whatever else ... and yes, this is in some senses an overaching moral argument about the use of language. (This is possibly why the Jess-and-Ethan approach to certain threads like this one wears on me really quickly; they will appreciate knowing that they are the Eminems of ILM.)

That said, I love "Without Me" (a) for being good pop (except for a lousy chorus), and (b) because the first time I heard it on the radio I realized that Eminem had bested me, that despite my supposedly not caring about him and not having ever listened to a full record of his I heard his voice on the radio and thought "Holy shit it's a new Eminem single" and turned it up to see what he had to say ... And there I was, basically having a good laugh at myself along with him. (The single actually seemed design to appeal to people who did not care for Eminem: I'm in complete agreement with Ally calling it the self-parody that the Eminem- indifferent could finally agree with him about?)

And then the next single came along and I was reminded how quickly even his cleverness gets old, how god-awfully boring he is when being even vaguely sincere, how truly uninteresting most of his production is, and how his verbal dexterity is consistently put to waste. . .

― Nicola Copernicus, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

the self-parody that the Eminem- indifferent could finally agree with him about

I wouldn't go THAT far... ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

When I first heard the single I was excited as well--hey it's the new Eminem--and what's funny is that I haven't had that reaction to a new song in a long time. The fact that it is who it is doesn't bother me a bit.

― Sean, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

In the great classroom of pop, Eminem is the self-conscious rebel, the rebel that the teacher was allowed to like. Of course he was funny, of course he got one up on so many people, but, in the end, you'd wish he get the fuck on with his work for once. With Eminem, it's not a case of "You could get As if you just applied yourself", rather, "You could be not a complete cunt if you just applied yourself".

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

'waste'?

― Josh, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

the thing is - and frank's article says this much better and more clearly - every time i think he's coasting on wit or wisecracks, he seems to pop up with a really cutting line. his guest verse on "what's the difference?" is the best example of that i can think of right now.

― dave k, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

you can't, like, own a word, man.

― jess, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The production is much fuller and generally nicer than on the previous album. I honestly believe that, however in patches you get the feeling he's coasting along.

I can't really put the man down because the minute I stuck the CD into my discman I was smiling. You can mock the "i'm back" stuff all you want, but Without Me genuinely did feel like something major and compelling and amusing and fucking fantastic and new. The thing Josh wrote on NYLPM says it better than I can.

― Ronan, Sunday, 2 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

A colleague says, "Somebody could make the case that he's coming out of the closet in three songs." Discuss.

― Frank Kogan, Monday, 3 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

all this time him and dre been fucking with hats off

― ethan, Monday, 3 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Frank: I don't think he's gay, but maybe gay-friendly? What's that line he has that goes like we're cutting up cantelopes and antelopes who says to guys can't elope or something like that, which I thought was kind of cool.

― Sean, Monday, 3 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

that was mean to be two guys, natch.

― Sean, Monday, 3 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah, but then he claims to have the antidote. I wouldn't call him gay-friendly, but then I don't necessarily think he likes himself, either.

― Frank Kogan, Monday, 3 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, I can't find it, but there's the one that goes, "Let's get out the K-Y." Something like that.

― Frank Kogan, Monday, 3 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

LETS GET READY FOR SOME INTENSE SERIOUS ASS FUCKING

― ethan, Monday, 3 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

of course frank that's kind of a battle rhyme (?) so it fits in with the trope of the rapper fucking his enemies or forcing oral sex on them while not being gay.

ethan asked me to make the same case a while ago and there are more bits all over the album that if not indicating eminem's gay, at least can be not so slyly 'interpreted' that way.

― Josh, Monday, 3 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

In multiple places on The Eminem Show Em refers to getting out of the game. He says that when your time is up, you should get out of the game. He also says that his magic will dry up when he's 30 (he's 28 on the album, cf. how they'll take you before they take him). So, question: do you really think he would do it? What would you think if he did?

― Josh, Monday, 3 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I would think the same of him as when he was "in the game" - nothing to say.

― Curt, Monday, 3 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

saying something you don't mean doesn't mean what you're saying is meaningless.

― Stuart, Tuesday, 4 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ethan's Pitchfork review of The Eminem Show: classic or CLASSICK?

― j.lu, Tuesday, 4 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Currently being debated here!

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 4 June 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...

I've heard this a few times now.

― Mark, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

A record like this is such a different listening experience for me. It's like, you can't really appreciate The Eminem Show without being tuned into to what's happening in his life. I'm not used to listening to music where I need to understand who a guy is, what his daughter's name is, what his relationship with his mother and ex-wife are, how he settled his latest lawsuit, what his lawyer's name is, etc. The author is not dead!

― Mark, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not complaining, though, I like the record. The incredible thing is, and its a testament to his marketing acumen, is that I DO know all those things about him, and more.

One thing I noticed about the record, though, is how stupid and tacked-on that "Superman" song is. He totally put that on just to be, ooh, *shocking*, and show that he doesn't give a fuck. His heart just isn't in it, unlike when he talks about stuff he's caring about. He just needs to give the people who hate him some ammo so they can rail at him and inspire him to write some good songs.

― Mark, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

And most of the choruses are pretty bad, unfortunately. No Dido.

― Mark, Friday, 5 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

So you basically hate it? ;-)

― nath, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"nobody listens to Techno" = logical extension of Schooly D's "I Don't Like Rock & Roll". Rock fans are too used to getting dissed in Rap joints to notice anymore (plus it'd be bad marketing- since Em also appeals to a large, white, Rock-loving audience), so raver culture is the next best thing. And Io, long haired faggots can kiss Hip-Hop's ass once again.

I think that's a good thing, just as it was a good thing with Schooly D. It won't stop me from listening to Techno anymore than Schooly stopped me from listening to Rock.

― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 6 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I've had a few weeks to listen to it, and I'll now say that the new one is nowhere near as good as "The Marshall Mathers LP".

― Sean, Sunday, 7 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

So am I right that on the last verse of "Square Dance," he turns into Bush/Cheney/America? And that "Cleanin Out My Closet" is directed at Kim?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 07:27 (twenty-one years ago)

two years pass...

Well, since my attempt on a thread got locked, I'll post this here instead (btw I did the search Ned, just didn't find any threads to match my topic)

Whenever the subject of Eminem comes up in conversation, my friends are very divided in their opinions of his carreer. Quite a few think that his shift from amusing bastard to Self-Conscious E With Family And Hard-Learned Lessons Of Life is not a good one, and that he is now reduced to school with the bottom-feeders of the rap market. Others simply see it as a turn to commercialize his music, making it even more broadly accessible, and following the trends of modern rap music. So, has he aged badly or well? Is that Nate Dogg colab as crap as I tend to think? How long until Haley does the chorus on his singles?

― the Dirt, Saturday, 19 May 2007 18:34 (eighteen years ago)

Seriously, what happened to Eminem?

― Mr. Snrub, Saturday, 19 May 2007 19:12 (eighteen years ago)

From Wikipeda:

"Eminem is known to be featuring on a future album release by Elton John"

so much for the homophobic accusations I guess.

― the Dirt, Tuesday, 22 May 2007 13:15 (eighteen years ago)

heh.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 22 May 2007 16:31 (eighteen years ago)

Also: the first of these is probably most suitable for your sort of "general discussion" purposes, but there are hella Em threads, man.

Eminem: Classic or Dud?
Eminem: Ten Words or Less
Eminem - I can't stand him, why is he so praised?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 22 May 2007 16:36 (eighteen years ago)

four years pass...

bump 4 lolz

― stepmomster (Lamp), Friday, 22 July 2011 06:12 (fourteen years ago)

i just revisited. some pretty amazing rapping and some pretty dire beats

― e herbiest unum (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 22 July 2011 06:17 (fourteen years ago)

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