Sure Barney's a twat, but can you handle the MOVEMENT poll?

i have listened to this album a whole bunch of times but can only recall how three of these songs sound

going with "dreams never end" because blah blah mixtape blah

I always return to "The Him". I don't think I've discerned the lyrics in 50 listenings.

For me it is always "The Him", even though "Doubts Even Here" is a better song.

btw, Junior Boys sampled Truth on their first LP. i busted them in their tour van in Seattle with this knowledge. can you spot where they used the sample?

doubts even here wins this for me, to me this always sounded like a some kind of lost JD track, maybe because Hook sang it (i guess) and was clearly aping Curtis, but I still think it is an amazing composition, just a slow and steady build

As I was saying on the other thread, Chosen Time. DNE is probably the one I feel is overrated.

Haha. Can't believe we haven't done this before. Can't believe I'm not the one who did it. :)

I know some DJ's here in town who play DNE fairly regularly and I would never, ever complain about it, but it does strike me as a track people see as the most accessible here, perhaps because it actually comes off as cheerful. I see it as slightly overrated considering the rest of the album, yes.

Chosen Time gets my vote, easy.

i have listened to this album a whole bunch of times but can only recall how three of these songs sound

Well, I probably said it on the other thread years ago, but when I first got the album, it took me a LOT of plays before I could tell any of the songs apart.

Denial. It's one of the heaviest, most intense songs I've heard. I did a mix CD for a metal-loving friend and stuck it on, and he was blown away; I honestly think the dynamic is very similar. The Taras Schevenko (subs please check ... oh, sorry, you've all been sacked) version really nails that.

I've still not had a chance to listen to the Hacienda gig; am savouring the delayed gratification. In a slightly masochistic way.

Also: the drumming is fucking blinding, and Barney sounds genuinely terrified in the whole "something I know/the answer's not there" bit.

I'm going to be the only one voting for it, though, eh?

Hopefully every track will get at least one vote.

Actually why set my sights low. Hopefully every track will get at least 10 votes!

Oft-parroted criticism that the album sounds like watered-down JD really bugs me, because it goes off in some weird directions that they really hadn't explored before (nor would again).

'ICB' is a great example, impenetrable lyrics aside. I love the production on this version, drums everywhere at once, though it loses a bit of the momentum that live (& the Peel session) versions gain once Steve steadies the rhythm around the 2/3rds mark. Distant relative of 'Lonesome Tonight', maybe?

"dreams never end"

This is terrible! This is one of my favourite albums by one of my all time fave bands and I can't even remember which song title goes with which song any more. I don't think it's Dreams Never End that's my fave - I think it might actually be ICB (is that the one with the sort of robotic synth and the weird electronic drumming?) but cannot remember for certain. I only ever had it on vinyl and all my vinyl is in storage in Vermont. I'm going to have to get the reissue, aren't i?

To make this easier for people likle you, Kate. The album via Youtube:

1 Dreams Never End

2 Truth

3 Senses

4 Chosen Time

5 ICB

6 The Him

7 Doubts Even Here

8 Denial

But those early live versions from the other thread and on youtube are even more impressive! Very difficult to choose in between any of these perfect songs on a perfect album. Did you mean Truth, Kate?

Oh GOD, I have the worst internet connection in the world, and YouTube has been blocked at work. I'm gonna hope that Truth is the right song, set it to download, and in about half an hour, I should be able to watch it and tell you if that's the one!

Truth is GRATE!!! (I had forgotten those EPIC synths that come in at the end) but that's not the one, either. I'm gonna listen to them all - I bet the song I'm thinking of isn't even on Movement and is on PCL instead. Coz I love the bassline to ICB but that's not it, either.

x-post, what a pity
truth is a little bit like ceremony. the bass is playing the slowish melody. there is harmonica on it. very, very bleak. lyrics start "oh it's a strange day. in such a lonely way. i saw some children dance. i watched my life in a trance." bernard speaks the words. it is my pick, i think.

No, the song I'm thinking of is far more electronic, and starts with this weird vocoder voice that sounds like Kraftwerk? I'm pretty sure it's on PCL, though.

I'm so torn on Movement - I love ALL of the songs. I love this era New Order.

Truth is freaking fantastic, but (I'm gonna commit heresy against The Bernard here) - I kinda like The Cure's Strange Day better?

I think I'm gonna go for Chosen Time just coz of that mad disco drumbeat and the analogue synth insect noises at the end.

I change my mind with each track I hear. *EVERY* song on that album is my favourite on the album.

No, the song I'm thinking of is far more electronic, and starts with this weird vocoder voice that sounds like Kraftwerk? I'm pretty sure it's on PCL, though.

I think you mean Hurt, which was the B-side of Temptation. Could be wrong, though.

Ecstacy on PCL probably

I think you mean Hurt, which was the B-side of Temptation. Could be wrong, though.

A WINRAR IS U!!!!!

That is exactly what it is. Which is why I didn't realise, beause the intro is totally different from the rest of the song, and it's the intro I've had stuck in my head. Like, the rest of the song is totally Blue Monday era, while the intro is very PCL.

Though I am listening to Ecstasy now, and it totally has the same voibe. Clearly I need to rebuy Movement and PCL on CD because this stuff is the best thing ever. Oh noes, please don't make me revive my Barney Sumner obsession. That would be bad.

God yes... I love this song...

cannot find YouTube of Hurt.

Oh wait, maybe I can...

Shit, is Peter Hook even playing in the same key? I don't think he is... OUCH.

Oh, he gets it by the time the live drums kick in. So THAT'S what Barney kept going back to look for - the Melodica. God, this is just the best song ever.

"Truth"

Btw. listening to these tracks makes it rather obvious how Lol Tolhurst got his idea of "wild" drumming on "Pornography" from.

Btw. I just picked up the Deluxe after having never really owned this album at all (other than a burned copied that I'd listened to once or something), but it stuck me that this is something I should listen to more. Apparently, they could have gone on doing the Joy Division style and actually being better without Ian Curtis. Of course, the electro approach they did instead was great too, so I am not complaining about that.

'Hurt' is basically the greatest thing ever — utterly delirious, with that wicked snare drum. Ladies (gents?), shirtless bernard:

fantastico. that fusion of machines and men is amazing. bernard's harmonica play adds the little exotic touch. his vocoder singing underlines the man-machine feel of the whole song. after the electronic staccato beat in the beginning steven accelerates and shows who is the master on the drums. this is how dance music should be.

lol at translation of Hurt...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3071/3088171000_771bc9d8ed_o.jpg

DO NOT MAKE ME WATCH THE SHIRTLESS BERNARD. I AM DRUNKED. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS WILL DO TO ME!!!! FAPPAGE MAY OCCUR!!!

I am gonna go out tomorrow and re-buy the first four albums or so on CD because they just make me so, so, sOOOO happy. It's easy to forget, but there was a period when New Order were simply UNTOUCHABLE they were so amazingly good. They're one of those bands I tend to forget how much I love them because, erm, well, I kind of *have* to, because, erm, there was a period during my second major nervous breakdown that I actually thought Bernard Sumner was controlling my thoughts (never take drugs, kids, they're bad for your mental well being) but ... wow how amazing were they?

Movement has "Chosen Time" and "Dreams Never End" but it's still a half-assed album.

Other than the ones you mention, Alfred... as well as "Truth", "The Him", "Denial", "Doubts Even Here"... what have the Romans ever done for us, etc, right? ;)

I voted for "Doubts Even Here" after agonizing between it and "Truth" when I decided the latter was (only just) a poor cousin to "In a Lonely Place", but then I started to fret that I'd not really given "The Him" a fair hearing until I listened again to "Doubts..." very, very loud and it completely overwhelmed me, not just sonically, but emotionally. I mean, fuck, it's at least as sad as anything by Joy Division but somehow it seems even sadder than that in its lost, bewildered stumbling around trying to find some kind of genuine centre when JD at least had that going for them (a sound, an aesthetic, Curtis's voice, etc)...

I actually thought Bernard Sumner was controlling my thoughts

I saw them at Loughborough Students Union in 1983 and I as I watched Barney pound his guitar to the climax of Perfect Kiss I was convinced a ray of light was bouncing of his guitar from heaven into me. It was that good.

"in 1983 and I as I watched Barney pound his guitar to the climax of Perfect Kiss"

this did not happen. what song was it though?

I am gonna go out tomorrow and re-buy the first four albums or so on CD

Alfred's actually right. It is half-assed in the sense that N.O. at the didn't really know what they wanted to be, and so deferred to the producer's tastes. Many of the songs wouldn't hold up terribly well on acoustic guitar. But, considering ILM's prime demographic is 30-somethings who grew up with the band, and whose taste for texture over other musical values was defined the panoply of bands that were influenced by Hannett productions, there's no reason Movement shouldn't be one of the touchstones that define the forum.

"in 1983 and I as I watched Barney pound his guitar to the climax of Perfect Kiss"

this did not happen. what song was it though?

― brotherlovesdub, Sunday, December 7, 2008 5:12 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

You are of course half right. It was Perfect Kiss but I think it was 1986.

In '83 I saw them at the Tower Ballroom in Brum. I probably had a near religious experience there too but not to Perfect Kiss. Sigh. I do know I nearly fell in the nearby reservoir afterwards so I must have been reeling from something.

That 'sigh' was yet another realisation of my great age. And now it seems even my memories are getting mixed up. Double Sigh.

God, but what memories to have! I'd have killed to have seen them in that time period... (My friend went down and saw them in NYC at some strange Ukrainian club place, but I was of course too young to get into bars.)

Surely, New Order's "prime demographic" is anyone who was @ 16-20 in 1980-ish... which would make it at the very least 40-somethings and not 30-somethings, right? Plus, holding up well on acoustic guitar is not exactly everyone's criterion for excellence!

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure I saw them at the Hacienda in or around 1983, but not at the one cited upthread. They played "Thieves Like Us" and it was sublime.

Actually, this might well be it:

Many of the songs wouldn't hold up terribly well on acoustic guitar.

Why should that be any criterion of goodness? Mozart's Requiem probably doesn't hold up terribly well on acoustic guitar either.

I recently relistened to this for the first time in years and personally I think it holds up pretty damn well. Probably my second favourite New Order album, after PC&L. Chosen Time is tremendous. That said, I think I actually prefer the stuff of around that time that didn't end up on Movement - the early singles/Factus 8 tracks.

I saw New Order in '84 at the Festival Hall - the only time (I think) that they've ever done Decades live, which was pretty intense. They were very variable live though. That same gig, I remember Sumner playing a whole song in the wrong key, it was pretty shambolic.

Doubts

x-post to Zelda

they did Decades one other time - I *think* it was at the Paradiso Club, Amersterdam in 84 or 85. They've done it in soundchecks a few times. I heard them do at in Reading Univ in 1981 (along with Digital, 24 Hours and a couple of others.)

Yep, having just checked neworderonline, you're right, they also did it three days later in Amsterdam. And then never again. I do remember a palpable drawing-in of breaths when they started on Decades.

Also, according to neworderonline, I was there the very first time they played Perfect Kiss. I don't remember it though.

They were very variable live though. That same gig, I remember Sumner playing a whole song in the wrong key, it was pretty shambolic.

Haha, I bet he did it deliberately!

Good grief, I've never delved that deeply into neworderonline what an amazing thing. NO fans are completely obsessives a dedicated bunch.

I think the main problem was in those days, Bernard was basically off his head most of the time. Evidence for the prosecution:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8yH4h1Z6rcs&hl=en&fs=1";></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8yH4h1Z6rcs&hl=en&fs=1"; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I <3 Kate's posts on this thread.

Heh, I think I've got both the Royal Festival Hall and Paradiso gigs here. They did indeed play 'Decades' at both. RFH is also notable for the infamous debut of 'The Perfect Kiss', in the guise of 'I've Got a Cock Like the M1'.

Another awesome early gig was at the Tower Ballroom, Birmingham in '83, where they opened with 'Love Will Tear Us Apart', the first time they'd played it as New Order, IIRC. Hearing the audience recognise that bassline so instantly and begin to sing along (better than Bernard, in fact) is spine-tingling.

I think "Dreams Never End" is the perfect song to begin New Order's career, if only for the superficial reasons that it sounds like something that would have logically followed Closer as a next step for JD & Hooky does such a great Ian impression. I imagine it probably was originally in the works as a JD song? Anyway, it just seems like the perfect transtional song between the two bands, and a solid platform for N.O. to build their own sound and proceed thusly. Also, Barney and Hooky seal the deal with some of their best-ever bass-lead/guitar-lead interplay.

Ok so after a nearlyw eek, I've managed to narrow this down to "Dreams", "Doubts", "The Him" and (I seem to be on my own here) "Denial".

They're all good. Next!

Baaderonix: look back at my choice ;)

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Everything got a vote! Yay!

bimble did you read either of the factory threads i bumped yesterday

think i voted twice cos i changed my mind; first for doubts, then for chosen time. this record has barely left my turntable since i bought it last week.

Low turnout for 'The Him' , weird

probably because everyone who would have voted for it chose 'Doubts Even Here' instead

Electricsound - I read the one about the Factory masters being found in Wilson's house by his son, yes. Don't know what the other thread is you're talking about.

Totally dying over that You Tube clip Ned Trifle posted above. I hadn't watched it until now, I admit. Also completely dying over the "Theives Like Us" clip above.