Favourite Song on "London Zoo" by The Bug?

Poison Dart featuring Warrior Queen is my vote.

Skeeeeeeeng

I get the feeling that might win

very poor

you don't like this album?

fuckaz. i love the neverending loop on that track.
so dirty.
plus spaceape is fucking ace

the whole album is brilliant tho

I was around a friends house and he played it. It got on my nerves and I wanted to hear something else. It's good but, I dunno...

Something is off with this, sort of the same problem as that last Techno Animal record. It's one of those things that on paper I love but in the headphones nothing really gels. I'm hoping the next one will be fyah, but that's what I said about Pressure.

Its an album that, like other Kevin Martin work, needs context. The context being a stroll around abandoned warehouses, rust belt forclosed communites, or a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

Or a night drive from my office to my apartment. I think this is a really versatile if dark record, and I love the shit out of it. Voted Skeng, but must rep for Jah War and Murder We and Fuckaz all of which I play about equally.

worse
shot ya in tha face make you send ya for the nurse
nurse / nurse / nurse

After six months with the record, I think it's one of the best records ever made, a funky political party on par with Maggot Brain, Sandinista, Double Nickles on the Dime, Nation of Millions. Poison Dart is the first one I heard, and I still can't believe I haven't worn it out the way I've been playing it, so it's got my deepest love. All the associated tracks on the 12" are brilliant too- Stampin, Ganja. Poison Dart, Jah War next maybe. Every track gets me though.

This one and the A Frames debut sum up the 00's for me. Like those other records I mentioned, I don't think I'll ever get to the bottom of them.

Would pick "Skeng", but don't feel like voting for the single, so I'll go with "Jah War" because I like some fire & brimstone in my post-apacolyptic post-dancehall. "Angry" is super-awesome, too.

I like the way the melody seems to keep slipping in and out of key on "Too Much Pain". It's very disorienting.

"Fuckaz" easy

After six months with the record, I think it's one of the best records ever made, a funky political party on par with Maggot Brain, Sandinista, Double Nickles on the Dime, Nation of Millions.

Nah, i wouldn't go that far.

Angry, by quite some distance.

I think I skipped "Angry" the first time I played it in the car cause I wanted something that really knocked right away and "Murder We" came on and it's like daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn where is ye olde spliffe

Angry is the perfect opener really

"Fuckaz" you eejits

this is really tough. 'skeng' seems like the automatic choice, and it may well be my favourite, but i feel i want to rep for 'insane'...i am going to have to relisten. though maybe when not hungover.

maybe every track will get a vote

I'm guessing Insane or Poison Dart will take this, as female toasting isn't common in the smattering of dancehall most of us have encountered.

??? I don't listen to much dancehall and still hear female toasting pretty often.

I can't really say. I suspect the distribution is similar to that on the Bug album (which I really like). On the RYM list of the highest rated 62 dancehall albums of this decade there is just one featuring a female toaster, Lady Saw. Given that dancehall reggae doesn't have any good radio outlets where I live, I simply don't have a good feel for what present day singles are like.

<3 this album

I suspect the distribution is similar to that on the Bug album (which I really like).

Yeah, that seems about right

Right now, it's Fuckaz. This may change over time, but I've only had the album a week.

Angry, by quite some distance.

― Matt DC, Sunday, 14 December 2008 14:07 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I'm guessing Insane or Poison Dart will take this, as female toasting isn't common in the smattering of dancehall most of us have encountered.

this sentence is really ill-thought out and senseless

i mean unless you're implying that people are going to vote for a female-fronted track because it's such a novelty

rather than because warrior queen is one of the best MCs on the record

Well, I did vote for a female-fronted track because 1) I like Warrior Queen (though I prefer "Aktion Pak" to anything on this record) and 2) for me, it is a novelty (as is the entire Bug project).

Formally, the backings aren't all that removed from the late 90's dubby isolationism of Scorn, Techno Animal, and the Illbient crew. But adding the toasting back into the recipe gives the whole a levity and humanity that was missing. And unlike JA dancehall (most to my ears disposable party music with a short shelf life), the Bug sound evokes an imaginal context that doesn't actually exist (yet). This is the music I'd expect in Neuromancer's rasta space station, or appealing to the characters in any number of post-apocalypic fictions.

I'd be keen to know how the Bug is heard by Jamaican listeners. Do the MCs make the isolationism accessible? Would they identify with the sense of urban decay? Or would it simply be heard as badly produced and undanceable.

i dont really care for it too much beyond these tracks:

3. Skeng featuring Killa P & Flowdan
5. Insane featuring Warrior Queen
6. Jah War featuring Flowdan
7. Fuckaz featuring Spaceape
10. Warning featuring Flowdan
11. Poison Dart featuring Warrior Queen

a lot of the rest sounds a bit dirgey and not very diff at all to stuff that was going in the 90s like various other ppl have pointed out.

Well, I did vote for a female-fronted track because 1) I like Warrior Queen (though I prefer "Aktion Pak" to anything on this record) and 2) for me, it is a novelty (as is the entire Bug project).

Formally, the backings aren't all that removed from the late 90's dubby isolationism of Scorn, Techno Animal, and the Illbient crew. But adding the toasting back into the recipe gives the whole a levity and humanity that was missing. And unlike JA dancehall (most to my ears disposable party music with a short shelf life), the Bug sound evokes an imaginal context that doesn't actually exist (yet). This is the music I'd expect in Neuromancer's rasta space station, or appealing to the characters in any number of post-apocalypic fictions.

I'd be keen to know how the Bug is heard by Jamaican listeners. Do the MCs make the isolationism accessible? Would they identify with the sense of urban decay? Or would it simply be heard as badly produced and undanceable.

― derelict

UGH.

I love "skeng" but "murder we" gets stuck in my head more often. after I burn out on them it'd probably be "poison dart".

"UGH."

Double ugh.

Voted "Skeng". My favorite "slow one" isn't even on the album (Ricky Ranking's "Flying"). No idea how anyone could say "Angry" for example sounds "dirgey", but obviously there is some connection between this record and previous things Martin was involved with.

oh noes, all these UGHs - but uh really how different is what cyberpunk dude is saying compared to "london: it's daaaaark innit geez"? or do you guys have some sort of subtler reasoning going on that i don't know about.

"most to my ears disposable party music with a short shelf life"
"This is the music I'd expect in Neuromancer's rasta space station, or appealing to the characters in any number of post-apocalypic fictions."

Was mostly what I was UGHing at.

That's my subtle reasoning anyway.

UGHing, new ilm meme

i prefer a HOOS-style "ugh, son"

I'm guessing they think the word "novelty" implies more than it does. I wouldn't bother with each year's music were it not for the promise of novelty. But then again I thought Eno was OTM in his rehabilitation of "pretentious".

As to Alex's comments: Most of every genre is disposable. That's why I pay people who publish magazines to pay critics to sort through the dross. I'm sure you realize that JA has more music releases per capita than any other nation on the face of the planet, and this has been true for 45 years. You've heard one of those one-riddim compilations? Sometimes a single backing track is recycled well over a hundred times. The very economics of JA dancehall production, for the vast majority releases, just about guarantees there are a very, very few potential gems in an overwhelming tide of vinyl that will be recycled into the next batch of dubplates when the next riddim hits.

possibly if you think all music is still an extension of a tenderly-caressed 10cd lee perry boxset you may well think that first point so UGH, but it's really not so wild a thing to say providing its not meant in an especially derogatory way. which it isn't there, really.

the 2nd point... well ok, tell me why youre into the album alex and we'll see how dumb cyberdude is actually being. (bonus points for using the word "sufferation")

xpost Well thank God we have great musicians like the Bug who can create truly visionary future works, unlike hacks like Stephen McGregor and Donovan Bennett who are just recycling a bunch of dross.

"the 2nd point... well ok, tell me why youre into the album alex and we'll see how dumb cyberdude is actually being. (bonus points for using the word "sufferation")"

Haha wtf are you on about. Do you always have this much trouble separating fantasy from reality?

Actually scratch that last bit. I've read enough your "oh so clever" uncapitalized rants over the years to know that you do.

u madd? luckily enough i don't seem to have much trouble seperating two guys both feeling the lyrical abstractions of the space ape but one having more or less the right idea about dancehall and the other putting it on a suffocating pedestal

i mean, its about a subtext to the beat on 'bow down' -- like i said upthread, they dont give a fuck about NEXT LEVEL 'bleak sounding atmospherics' bcuz the point is they are REAL and therefore who gives a fuck -- if you are a dude in jail who kept a knife in his ass you dont give a shit about dystopian soundscapes or whatever

― K DEF FROM REAL LIVE (deej)

So you're saying that you can better relate to the guy with a knife in his ass in prison. That's cool, I get that. Me personally, I go for the dark sci-fi fiction over the gritty street fiction. Doesn't mean one is better than the other, just means you're probably looking for something in The Bug's music that isn't there.

Hey sometime this week this thread got awesome btw

It will be back to fighting soon enough

Unless that is what you thought was awesome

It's not so much about being able to relate to situations, rockapads, as about how the records seem to relate to us. If a dude tells me he's got a knife in his ass, my gut reponse will depend to a large degree on whether or not I believe him, and if I do, how likely I think he is to wash the knife before trying to stab me with it. When it comes to art, the upshot is that the meaning of statements depends to a large degree on artistic positioning. This isn't just projection. Crime fiction is not the same as "true crime", and the difference lies in how the two genres present themselves to us. Even in fiction-qua-fiction, the authorial pose (and even if we're unaware of that context, the narrative tone) adopted by the likes of Mikey Spillane and James Ellroy colors the function and effect of their writing. In reading them, we are meant to understand that they are tough, no bullshit dudes who have SEEN SOME SHIT. Whether or not we buy into or or even recognize this mythology, it exists as a sort of ghostly literary device.

For NYG'z, thug realism is clearly part of the artistic intent. It doesn't matter whether or not we think of their storytelling as fiction or as documentary reality, NYG'z intentionally present it as the latter. This is an artistic decision, and it's communicated at every level in the work: carefully observed situational minutia, steely hostility of tone, repeated assurances that what we're hearing is real. Even the budget beats (pre-associated with the musical true crime genre) reassure us that this is not "mere fiction". Like The Blair Witch Project or L.A. Confidential, The Ass-Knife Song hopes we will believe that SHIT IS REAL -- that the threats promised might well be acted upon. At the very least, it wants us to suspend disbelief long enough for certain feelings to take hold.

This true-crime/horror movie approach isn't what The Bug is about. Throughout London Zoo, the music vies for attention with the lyrics, and the overall effect reassures us that we're listening to the work of sophisticated, cosmopolitan artistes. KM and co. aren't attempting to convince us that they're cold-hearted killers, or even that they know the killer's world from the ground up. Instead, it seems as though we're meant to perceive the music entirely within "fictional" terms, as a series of artistic decisions with political implications. To the extent the MCs involved pull the nasty face, this means that by certain standards, the record does come up short, fake, reeking of coffee table hardness. But that's totally beside the point. "Authentic" danger has nothing to do with The Bug's artistic aims, so it doesn't matter that London Zoo fails to pass some irrelevant realness test.

lol @ "The Ass-Knife Song"

see, but my contention is that its trying to trade off of 'hardness' regardless -- its using a bunch of signifiers of 'hard' music and trying to make 'legit' versions of it -- now to be fair this is a huge assumption on my part but im not sure what else im supposed to get about it. just being dystopian is meaningless -- what sets it apart?

im being kind of troll-y at this pt tho -- no need to argue w/ me unless someone thinks they've got something to say new here

Setting apart? I dunno. To my ears, London Zoo sounds like a semi-fresh permutation of a sound I've been hearing for a decade or more. I really, really like the production, especially the basslines. It catches my ear and sounds appealing. So my response is a pop response, pleasure principle stuff. I not any kind of expert on contemporary dub-influenced club music, so I wouldn't make any great claims for the uniqueness of London Zoo. Then again, I don't have to be certain that something is GROUNDBREAKING! to know that I like it.

As far as the hardness thing goes, if we accept that hardness is an artistic stance, legit and self-aware as any other, why can't it be borrowed and repurposed to suit whatever aims? Does it always have to be really real? I mean, personally, I don't care whether or not black metal bands REALLY worship satan or hate humanity or feel the terrible pain of mind. I just want the shit to sound wicked. (Maybe I'm being trolly here, with my fake naivete and all. I dunno...)

yah i mean -- im not saying it needs to be groundbreaking -- i just want to 'understand' it and i think at this pt im just gonna be like shrug its not for me.

but yeah hardness can be borrowed whether or not its true, im sure black metal bands can be convincing, but again to me w/in the context here it just doesnt sound particularly hard, but it sounds like thats what a lot of ppl are saying about it anyway -- i mean i dont think 'appropriation' is really the right word to use here, merely that mood-wise its not really capturing that kind of gut-level rugged vibe to ME that (im getting the impression) other ppl are attaching to it. like it seems firmly in this rza/tricky/whoever else vein of minor key clanky music = serious good 'dystopian' sounds and at this pt its not a particularly fresh direction; just a few new sonic tricks in an otherwise static set of mood pieces

but of course there are probably plenty of things i dig that ppl see the same way -- i think the reason it 'matters' to me here to bring it up is bcuz of the logic brought up upthread, the argument that this stands out and its critical appreciation is more deserved bcuz it is so singular when compared to generic dancehall -- to me its more like in the vein of tricky to burial appreciation, a sound from an auteur incorporating influences and making dark instrumental music -- not so much a radical break, but maybe a refinement of an older formula w/ a few new influences.

Throughout London Zoo, the music vies for attention with the lyrics, and the overall effect reassures us that we're listening to the work of sophisticated, cosmopolitan artistes. KM and co. aren't attempting to convince us that they're cold-hearted killers, or even that they know the killer's world from the ground up. Instead, it seems as though we're meant to perceive the music entirely within "fictional" terms, as a series of artistic decisions with political implications. To the extent the MCs involved pull the nasty face, this means that by certain standards, the record does come up short, fake, reeking of coffee table hardness. But that's totally beside the point. "Authentic" danger has nothing to do with The Bug's artistic aims, so it doesn't matter that London Zoo fails to pass some irrelevant realness test.

I agree with everything you wrote about the Ass-Knife Song, but this is where you lose me. I don't know much about Kevin Martin, but the impression of him and his vocalists that this album leaves me with isn't that of "sophisticated, cosmopolitan artistes", which is an awful strawman anyway. You seem to be under the misassumption that London Zoo is intended as any sort of crime drama, fictional or not, when there is only one song on the album that aims for this. (I think that song pulls off its thug realism quite well, even if it doesn't have any particular line as o_O as the "knife in my ass" line. Most "thug realist" songs don't.) I mean, it basically sounds like you're saying "this album isn't trying to be all about crime this, murder that, therefor it isn't convincingly all about crime this, murder that", which is a mean piece of circular logic. Most of the songs are trying to express anger about social issues, and I don't see you trying to engage with that aspect of the album at all when you can just pretend the album is something other than what it is in the first place, not that many of the people who like the album aren't doing the same.

Pressure was way way way better than this album BTFW

Off one listen to Pressure, it starts off great and trails off at the end, because some of the later tracks have too little going on, but don't really tension out of the minimalism in an interesting way.

Rev: I thought I was pretty clear about the album's political aims, at least in passing. Maybe not... Anyway, my suggestion was that when the MC's try to talk tough, as Flowdan does on Skeng, the vibe attempted/acheived isn't thug realism, though he's arguably borrowing heat from that approach. And in calling London Zoo "fictional", I wasn't calling it crime fiction, specifically. Where Bow Down presents itself as a message from the underworld, London Zoo presents itself as a portrait of a society in decay. Fictional in that the portrait is, to some degree, imaginative rather than strictly documentary. More J.G. Ballard than Iceberg Slim.

I'm still stumped on how to answer deej. First up, sure: London Zoo is an example of something that's been going on for a while, not some brave new world. Slots in fine with Tricky, Monkey Mafia, Techno Animal & older Bug stuff, recent /rupture, dancehall & dubstep as genres (though it doesn't belong to either). But there's nothing wrong with any of that that, right? Those aren't intrinsically damnable influences/peers, are they?

So, even if you don't like it much, what's not to "get"? The basslines are deep and nodding, KM has a way with slurred atmospherics and nasal drones that enhance tension without getting in the way of the groove (Angry, Murder We), some of the tracks have catchy vocal performances/hooks (Poison Dart, Murder We, Skeng). Considered as a clubby-feeling pop-not-pop record, its points of appeal seem self-evident. And from where I stand, a lot of it just plain works. On the other hand, with regard to stuff like Spaceape's Fuckaz, I totally get where you're coming from. A flat rehash of sounds I've heard a thousand times before, and the vocal is woefully unconvincing, even embarassing. But there's more good stuff here than bad, and I disagree that Pressure was better, as some have said. The druggy groove and nods to general accessiblity here seem much more appealing than Pressure's stony relentlessness.

Poll finishes on friday, don't let the thread die now!

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

bump

2 hours left

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I'm guessing Poison Dart

Hey, look, it's Poison Dart

"Poison Dart" isn't even the better Warrior Queen track

so only 1 without a vote. Not bad.

One of the best, I tells youz.

Some interesting discussion on this thread. I've been a fan of Martin's for years, from God's Possession onward basically (that was about 1990, I think). I kinda think London Zoo is the weakest of his dancehall-influenced work; I much prefer Pressure and Aktion Pak, not to mention the "Gun Disease" single with Cutty Ranks and the whole run of Razor X Productions singles (compiled as Killing Sound). I think where London Zoo fails is its attempt to come to grips with/incorporate the sound and style of dubstep. When Martin was doing steel-bars-crashing-on-the-concrete dancehall on all the other releases I mentioned, he didn't really sound like anybody else. Now, though, he's trying to sort of glom onto dubstep (and particularly, it seems to me, those aspects of dubstep most highly regarded by the editors of The Wire) and consequently falling short. Especially since (to my untrained, caveman-like ear anyway) dubstep as a genre isn't doing anything that the crew at WordSound Records weren't doing over a decade ago.

hmm

dude made a good record let's leave it at that

Angry feauring Tippa Irie 7

AYYYY MACARENA

lol

lol x2

that and the "dancehall for industrial fans" comment too. The beats here are such a Rorschach. I frankly don't hear much dubstep in the results, even if it was an ingredient. Dubstep is an abandoned street at 2 AM, this is a crowded street riot at dusk.

i'm baffled by ilx's response to this album. i remember coming on here ages ago espousing the virtues of "pressure" (which has much more interesting moments on it than this) and being told it was nothing but useless fruity-loops based nonsense.

The beats here are such a Rorschach.

^^^prob the most otm thing anyone's said in this thread

hurm

Angry feauring Tippa Irie 7

AYYYY MACARENA

― Dr. Yakubius (and what), viernes 19 de diciembre de 2008 15:09 (5 hours ago) Bookmark

Ugh, exactly.

It's actually EEEEEH MACARENA

Angry's my favorite off the bat, but I also realized as I was loving it that the beat is the same as all those mid-90s club remixes / fake dancehall rap projects.

I just caught the line "shot in the face like dart through a board"

Angry feauring Tippa Irie 7

AYYYY MACARENA

― Dr. Yakubius (and what), viernes 19 de diciembre de 2008 15:09 (5 hours ago)

lol mad correct

thought i would reinvestigate this but apart from the more grime/dubstep informed tracks, i still think theres something not exactly 'dated', but quite a bit less forward looking and 90s redolent about the rest of it. i know hes big into soundsystem tradition/dub so he prob felt he had to touch on that somewhere but id be more interested if it was all more right in that space between the bugs mutations of old school dub/dancehall and grime/dubstep.

probably would've voted 'Insane'

Got the new single "Ganja"/"Flying" in the mail this weekend. It's not great. The former has Killa P and Flowdan and is aggressive/upbeat, the latter has Ricky Ranking and is slower/dubbier. But again, they're both just okay. I think he peaked with Pressure and the Razor X singles.

Angry really reminds me of Boom by Flight of the Conchords. Makes it a bit hard to take seriously.

best thing he did was that remix for T.Raumschmiere, Rabaukendisko (The Bug’s Dancehell RMX feat. Ras Bogle).
still knocks me sideways that track.

been playin this junt out lately & "warning" is my shit

"Jah War" came on iTunes shuffle and my girlfriend goes, "OMG is this Sean Paul on your computer???"

haha anything with dancehall vocals = sean paul

I like The Bug but Sean Paul > The Bug

http://www.thewire.co.uk/images/artists/bug__the/originals/cover317.jpg

Kevin Martin on the WIRE cover?? Shocking!

man, i did a lot of typing on this thread

Not a huge Bug stan, but this new track is good. Doesn't exactly deviate from the norm, but it feels a little more sprightly than some of London Zoo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrWJK1rjOHE

two songs from the long-overdue new album, angels & devils, released yesterday (collaborations with death grips and gonjasufi).

i like the slowed-to-a-crawl, ominous-vibe on that gonjasufi song.