Sleeper vs The Strokes

Cracked me up, he really didn't look like it until he decided to hit himself in the head with the microphone during the last song.

Pain = fun

As for Casablancas hitting a mic over his head - (adopts Beavis and Butthead accent) 'Uh huh huh cool'. Sorry folks, I'd far rather have my front person looking like a sassy, sexy girl next door type than some spotty posh kid.

'There he comes, she swa-ah-hah-ah-lows, that's no lover, that's a vanity thief'.

Genius.

People who like to invert and surprise, eg Mark S, should by rights come along and stick up for Sleeper.

Sleeper are pretty much the same though and that is my point. The only difference between the two being that, if you can get rid of your snobbery towards honest throwaway indie for two seconds, Sleeper never really pretended to be anything they weren't. They wrote great pop songs, Louise sang about 'doing it till we're sore' (gasp! A WOMAN, how dare she, singing about such things - NME prove their male dominated, hushed up male dominated stance once and for all by saying Wener is simply 'a slapper'... and please hype Eminem more boys).

They made some of the finest raido friendly pop tunes of the mid nineties (need I role them off?) and for a time actually seemed to be on top of the world.

And, at the end of the day, they were sexier, sassier and had more to say than The Strokes.

see also Catatonia, Placebo

eg sleepers wake up

'Is This It' is v. cleverly arranged/played/produced, there's almost no filler, the lyrics to 'New York City Cops' and 'Last Night' are pretty funny, and the lead singer is sexier. But I wouldn't be surprised if we have to wait five years for a 'Second Coming'-style follow up.

Calum, did you once write a review of a Loren Mazzacane Connors gig for some website or other? It's the only review that has ever prompted me to write an angry letter to the editor!

Anyhow - Sleeper actually chose their own name (they were previously called 'Surrender Dorothy' and they became Sleeper because that's then name of Lousie's favourite Woody Allen film.

I get pissed with this whole 'she shagged the Sleeperblokes' shit. Look - fuck off. Who cares? If this was a guy led group where the bloke shagged everything in sight would there be this sort of 'oh what a bastard' shit? No. Julian Casablancas admits to accepting blow jobs from groupies but hey that's cool cos he's a guy. One of the bad dates Amanda 'groupie par excellance' DeCadenat - but that's cool cos he's a guy. Led Zeppellin put sea food up a woman's twat but, hey, that's cool cos they were, like, rock n' roll.

Meanwhile Louise Wener's long term boyfriend was her guitarist, they split and she ended up with the drummer (I think that's right) who she's STILL TOGETHER WITH. So how this makes her a slapper I have no fucking idea. NME, of course, would rather hype Eminem who is a great influence on the 9 year old boys buying his crap.

Sleeper were great. A female fronted band that happened to write catchy number with, often, funny lyrics. The words to 'What do I do Now?' are far better than anything The Strokes have come up with. I mean, 'Spaceships they don't understand' - oh cheers for that mate. And the words to 'Swallow' ARE class.

Ignoring the Strokes comparison, though, I stand by Sleeper just being sort of there and vaguely interesting, and I'm actually sort of mystified that anyone really liked them: I always pictured them as one of those bands whose records people picked up fourth on their lists and then stood around saying "Sleeper? Oh yeah, that record was nice enough."

I must say, though, Calum, that I'm disturbed that you point up the complexities of Louise's sexuality as this big daring plus and then (rightly) criticize people for paying negative attention to it: the former is sort of dependent on the latter, no?

Also were their lyrics possibly only good if you caught UK references I was missing? I remember them being, say, 10% clever, 60% obvious, and 30% clumsy, with the "obvious" portion subdivided into halves (boringly obvious versus functionally obvious).

I don't think this is right. I think it's a back-projection into history of the sense that '96 indie was mediocre and anonymous'. Maybe it was - but while they were in the news, there was something much more extreme and divisive about Sleeper than that. If you were enjoying one of their songs, you wouldn't say 'it's sort of there' - you'd think, I really like this track. And if you were dead set against them, as many people were and are for various reasons, then they wouldn't be 'sort of there' - it would be a source of massive annoyance that they were still there at all, and rather than being 'vaguely interesting' they'd be 'deeply irritating' or worse.

I think nabisco's comment might possibly be accurate as a statement of how 'pop history' will regard, or does regard, Sleeper - which is fair enough; but I don't think it registers the fact of a band's presence when they are Now rather than Then.

re. lyrics: I am largely on nabisco's side: they were the sort of lyrics that people who *think* they are good lyricists write, and that make the pinefox groan with the evident gap between estimate and actuality. There is a whole sub-genre of PSEUDO-CLEVER LYRICISM within 'indie' which I may have mentioned before: Sleeper are exemplary, but Shed 7, Gene, even Blur have also given us many instances.

NB when I say they were "just sort of there" I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean, they were "just sort of there" in my record collection and in my CD changer, which is many steps above being "just sort of there" on the radio.

I don't think I pointed out the 'complexities' of her sexuality because there aren't any: she was a young girl who was dating a member of her band, split with him and dated another band member whom she's still together with 8 years later. I think that Sleeper did sing about British things ('The Queen is Dead' reference on 'Dress Like Your Mother' the whole lyric of 'Statuesque' and 'Shrinkwrapped') and I for one think the sex references in the songs (specifically 'Swallow', 'Delicious', 'Nice Guy Edie' and 'Statuesque') are now kinda cute. And I stand by 'What do I do Now' as one of the best break up songs ever written.

I like Sleeper a lot to be honest and never felt they deserved the shit they got from NME. Any paper that can still, with a straight face, give the new Travis LP an 8 out of 10 review and hail Andrew WK as a messiah, has its faults. I think that their 'Wener the slapper' attitude had everything to do with the repressed, upper middle class, closet sexist scribblings of such assholes as Steven Wells.

Just a thought...

In part what I'm saying is that I'm surprised you found lyrics like those worthy of pointing out: maybe it's just me, but I found them pretty much unsurprising and fine and once again just sort of there. I dunno, maybe if I'd been reading the NME calling her a slapper I would have cheered her on a bit more for doing it -- but I don't see any stances she took (lyrically) about sex or gender being particular inventive or controversial.

I remember Justine from Elastica saying she hated taking her top off for a Select shoot, but she ended up being talked into it. Then when Elastica returned NME was more interested in whether or not she was shagging Brett Anderson than if 'The Menace' was any good (which to be fair is debatable anyway).

Quite like Louise Wener - think she took a lot of slack, made some dopey comments (her comments on vegetarians were especially uncalled for) but still released some corking songs. I guess the point I was making was that Louise sang about aggresive female sexuality, and I get the impression that it 'turned' some journalists on, but also allowed for them to pigeonhole her as a slut.

Funnily enough, the same old NME is now making a case for Princess Superstar as some feminist icon.

you make no sense. The only sense I can make of your comments is that you fancy Louise and do not fancy The Strokes because they are - shock, horror - rich kids.

Both bands are inconsequential like all pop music. The rate of turnover in 2002 is frightening and journalists frantically grab onto any musical driftwood press officers put their way that pleases their ears. You muppet.

Now, matey, if I simply judged music by whom I fancied then I'd be out there buying Kylie, Sophie Ellis Bextor and fucking Atomic Kitten CDs, but that just aint so. So keep your dipshit opinions where they belong: in your diary.

I don't dislike The Strokes either - if you'd read my posts you realise I like them a great deal, fab pop tunes and all. I just happen to think Sleeper have a lot in common with them, and produced BETTER pop tunes.

Case closed. Now go drown yourself in a bath full of goat wank.

you're a funny muppet too

you've clearly never bathed in 'goat wank'. It is great for the pores

I listened to S*M*A*R*T last night. I still kind of like them.

I find water more effective. And less laborious to obtain.

This is the most amazing thing said on ILM possibly ever!

ps love to N_Rq mad props frrom such as such do never goo un-noticed.

best thread ever
-- man, Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:11 (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

OTM

I want to see a picture of Calum! I, too, love Sleeper and all manners of britpop. I need to know if my male counterpart is hot!

I dislike both of them. But I saw both of the live at various points and The Strokes pissed all over Sleeper.

That must have been some show.

Ha! Actually what happened was that the The Strokes pissed all over The Doves but unfortunately not in that way.

I'm for the new supergroup formed by Louise Wener and journo John Harris (the friend of Damon Cunt Albarn and Donna Junkhead Matthews)

Wait what?

http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/sleeper/2000/news/070320.htm

apparently.

That's one mixed up web link.

Velvet Underground, Morrissey Solo, then Sleeper?

I also red it somewhere else that they play in Crouch End

I'm never leaving the house again.

or

I really hope it's at the Music Palace, or whatever it's called.

Will Harris be the new Dimebag Darrell? Only time will terll.

Also tell.

I've been listening to some Sleeper this evening.

"Nice Guy Eddie" doesn't really go anywhere, also Louise is dressed like Molko/Jas Mann/random other late 90s "I AM SO AN-DRODGE-EE-NUZ" dude in the video.

"What Do I Do Now": this is pretty dull. "She's made up like glue", apparently.

"She's A Good Girl": horrid.

That's it.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/fiction/article1525387.ece

maybe harris gave up the guardian gig to take them to the next level.

"softly-spoken"

It's like they're trying to make Jaymc cry

they both suck, obvs

Calum W. is a British writer and film critic. His books include Minds of Fear and Taboo Breakers and his work has been published in such magazines as Neo, Dreamwatch, SFX and Fangoria
In addition, Calum has worked as an associate producer on The Collingswood Story and Brotherhood of Blood.

i knew it!

In a better world The Collingswood Story would be Calum's weepy tribute to Fountains of Wayne

I've been listening to some Sleeper this evening.

-- Dom Passantino, Friday, 28 December 2007 18:45 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Proof! You are a mentalist.

Calum W is a British writer and film critic. His books include Minds of Fear and Taboo Breakers and his work has been published in such magazines as Neo, Dreamwatch, SFX and Fangoria
In addition, Calum has worked as an associate producer on The Collingswood Story and Brotherhood of Blood.

-- J0hn D., Friday, 28 December 2007 21:23 (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Dude even had a cover feature in Bizarre. They've not even given me one yet :-(

I like the Strokes. They're like a boring version of Blondie. I like boring things.

now i understand nme readers

He still has the same haircut.

Franz Ferdinand and Killers > Sleeper > The Strokes

Although none of the other acts have ever made a song as great as "Sale Of The Century", Sleeper's one true classic.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4945/robotvp8.jpg

Liking the Strokes puts me in a tiny minority on this board doesn't it?

I don't think so, akshully.

good spelling, I may use that.

Don't forget to credit me.