Black Francis vs. Mark E. Smith

Black Francis

Smith.

Black Francis

Come on, are you crazy? This isn't even a contest. Put M.E.S. up against anyone! He will STILL win. Unless it's...Damo Suzuki I guess...

Tame + Crackity Jones + Hey = Frank Black.

Come on, are you crazy? This isn't even a contest. Put M.E.S. up against anyone! He will STILL win. Unless it's...Damo Suzuki I guess...

― Beehive Reptile (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Monday, December 15, 2008 4:10 AM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fraid this is OTM

LOL BE NOT AFRAID

This'll be MES in a walk (to the nearest pub)

Would Frank Black reading the baseball scores even approach the sublime greatness of Mark E Smith reading the football scores? C'mon, Surfer Rosa changed my life but the Fall have a legit claim to Best Band Ever.

honestly i think frank's delivery[ is better than mark's, but for the actual lyrics and personality it's got to be mark e.

who is dripping more melted cheeseburger irony?

Yeah I guess it's down to are we voting for a singer or a personality? MES might be da man but FB in full on literally barking mad mode is like a dopamine hit direct to my brain.

Francis

Just listened to In the Park off Grotesque. Just to reinforce the earlier point - it's MES all the way. How could it not be? He's got the better voice, the better lyrics and the better delivery, all by a considerable distance. There's no hate in the point that I give - I like the Pixies - but everyone else is clutching at Smith's toes.

I don't know who Black Francis is, but Mark E. Smith is the worst vocalist I've ever heard in my life, so I assume this other guy must be better.

i think i listen to the pixies more than the fall these days on the whole and there were points in this life where i pretty much wanted to BE both of these dudes but really this is MES til infinity

MY life

This is a tough one.

(xpost) you are secretly Egg and I claim my prize...

I don't know who Black Francis is, but Mark E. Smith is the worst vocalist I've ever heard in my life, so I assume this other guy must be better.

― Tuomas, Monday, 15 December 2008 17:08 (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

There are others who share that opinion but to me he's the BEST vocalist ever. His phrasing, timing, power, jeesus, even his glotal-stops are incredible. Vocal communication like no other.

Smith by the widest margin in history.

Masterful.

The Fall. Tempo House. Manchester Hacienda 1983,

love both, but black francis

What inspired the comparison, Matt P? That they're both prolific and esoteric?

Merely excellent.

The Pixies. Brixton Academy. 1991.

Man, I love Black Francis and will rep even harder for Frank Black solo — he's written so many amazing songs, but agreed this isn't even close.

Black Francis has a back-catalogue. MES IS A LIVING BOOK.

poll is lol

I may not have heard definitive Fall, but I've heard enough to know that Black Francis wins my vote.

Anyone who thinks Black Francis wins this hasn't really listened to The Fall.

you have to listen...with your ears!

I used to say that to people about Phish.

MES by a million light years.

seconded. francis's singing is the worst thing about the pixies.

whereas MES's singing is one of the best things about the fall.

J.D. so notm re: black francis

i was hugely emotionally invested in the pixies as a teenager, and am now only a halfassed fall fan, but the answer is still MES. he's just in another class of power altogether.

the only really interesting thing about the pixies might be the vocals. though I can't claim to be an expert or anything.

Mark is an ILM icon and to vote against him is to admit the failure of your own taste. Same kinda-sorta goes for FB, but much less so. As an art-presence, as human comedy and as a symbol of that which should endure, MES talks it in a walk. Again, same with BF, but less enthusiastically. Thing is, though, as a musician, MES isn't a patch on, well ... anybody. He belongs to the small group of musical Special Olympians who manage to turn their almost total lack of conventional talent into a superhero costume of some sort: David Thomas, Don Van Vliet, Jandek. And cult diefication is always revolting, which makes it really hard to choose. Though I like both the Fall and the Pixies, if I had to listen to only one or the other for the rest of my life, I think I'd end up almost never listening to any music ever.

MES, grudgingly.

If the results of this poll are even close...I'm speechless just thinking about it.

MES

not a fair contest. smith is sui generis and cannot be copied, the diehard uncommerciality of the fall cementing that fact. Pixies after all spawned nirvana et al. I mean the music came out of somewhere and was going places. by contrast, the fall don't really belong anywhere.

It's not that I don't get The Fall. I do. I just don't much like The Fall.

Black Francis.

not a fair contest. smith is sui generis and cannot be copied, the diehard uncommerciality of the fall cementing that fact. Pixies after all spawned nirvana et al. I mean the music came out of somewhere and was going places. by contrast, the fall don't really belong anywhere.

This doesn't seem really to endorse or to condemn The Fall, though. Unless being sui generis is in itself a valuable or a not-valuable thing.

conventional is now experimental, it is no way noble

"the small group of musical Special Olympians who manage to turn their almost total lack of conventional talent into a superhero costume of some sort: David Thomas, Don Van Vliet, Jandek"

plz to start new (non-poll) thread plz

Yeah, but DVV is PLENTY talented! (In his own idiosyncratic way)

And doesn't he actually write out like every note of the music? I thought the thing with DVV was that every note was down to his say and there was no room for improvisation, and like if you didn't do it exactly right he locked you in your room starved you and shit. The guy didn't even let people have their own names.

It's not that I don't get The Fall. I do. I just don't much like The Fall.

Afraid that's not possible, Johnny. If you got them, you'd muchlike. Sorry, nothing to be done about it - it's just the way it is. Unless you're the sort person who doesn't like amazing stuff of course.

Because I have nothing else going on in my life whatsoever apart from avoiding ineluctable obligations, I was thinking about Smith's best vocal performances as I lay in bed this morning.

Frenz (yes, the der der ders, but also the way it highlights one of the great aspects of his voice - its fragility)
Spector vs Rector (so much energy and devotion to the telling of the tale
Hip Priest (Peel or Live at Leeds dvd - seagull screeching invocation)
Antodites (Peel) (astonishing, timeless, primal)
Bill is Dead (lovely and unique)
Hurricane Edward (so thin! so sour! so unpleasant!)
Dissolute Singer (not really Fall as such, I know)
The Birmingham School of Business School (yes, for the dog impression obviously, but also - has he ever sounded quite so sneering?)
The Classical (a sort of mischevious glee)
Shake Off (Peel) (at his most delerious - none of the words make sense)

TS: Bill is Dead vs. Bill's Corpse

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