Pazz & Jop 2008

Pazz & Jop 2008 critics poll for albums and songs is now out. TV on the Radio wins for albums and M.I.A. "Paper Planes" for singles

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/

Top albums with points and mentions

TV on the Radio, Dear Science
Interscope Points: 1744
Mentions: 154
2 Vampire Weekend, Vampire Weekend
XL Points: 1075
Mentions: 105
3 Portishead, Third
Mercury Points: 1058
Mentions: 102
4 Erykah Badu, New Amerykah, Pt. 1: 4th World War
Motown Points: 910
Mentions: 80
5 Fleet Foxes, Fleet Foxes
Sub Pop Points: 907
Mentions: 87
6 Lil Wayne, Tha Carter III
Cash Money Points: 817
Mentions: 78
7 Santogold, Santogold
Downtown Points: 808
Mentions: 79
8 Bon Iver, For Emma, Forever Ago *
Jagjaguwar Points: 770
Mentions: 75
9 Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, Dig!!! Lazarus Dig!!!
Anti- Points: 687
Mentions: 61
10 Kanye West, 808s & Heartbreak
Roc-A-Fella Points: 603
Mentions: 57
11 Deerhunter, Microcastle/Weird Era Continued
Kranky Points: 585
Mentions: 55
12 Randy Newman, Harps and Angels
Nonesuch Points: 546
Mentions: 48
13 The Hold Steady, Stay Positive
Vagrant Points: 540
Mentions: 54
14 No Age, Nouns
Sub Pop Points: 452
Mentions: 45
15 Girl Talk, Feed the Animals
Illegal Art Points: 440
Mentions: 43
16 My Morning Jacket, Evil Urges
ATO Points: 429
Mentions: 43
17 MGMT, Oracular Spectacular *
Sony Points: 425
Mentions: 43
18 Hercules and Love Affair, Hercules and Love Affair
DFA/EMI Points: 416
Mentions: 42
19 Raphael Saadiq, The Way I See It
Columbia Points: 415
Mentions: 45
20 Bob Dylan, The Bootleg Series, Vol. 8: Tell Tale Signs - Rare and Unreleased 1989-2006
Columbia Points: 402
Mentions: 36
21 Coldplay, Viva La Vida, or Death and All His Friends
Capitol Points: 366
Mentions: 36
22 Los Campesinos!, Hold On Now, Youngster...
Arts & Crafts Points: 365
Mentions: 32
23 Cut Copy, In Ghost Colours
Modular Points: 338
Mentions: 30
24 The Gaslight Anthem, The '59 Sound
Side One Dummy Points: 321
Mentions: 28
25 R.E.M., Accelerate
Warner Brothers Points: 313
Mentions

haha--beat me to it by two minutes.

pretty dire looking on first glance.

BADU GOES TOP FIVE, good enough for me.

I knew I'd be the only person to vote for Ecko records bluesy Southern soul artist Miss Jody but I thought someone else would vote for Julieta Venegas besides me. Oh well. Erykah and Lil' Wayne were the only top 10 album winners that I went for.

way to go Torche!

As I whine about every year, not enough folks into 'specialist' genres vote. They either don't care despite being aware, or don't know about the poll, or don't try to get involved.

yeah, that and the P-head placing surprised me. kinda.

xxxp

http://www.villagevoice.com/2009-01-21/pazzandjop/janelle-erykah-and-santogold-are-the-afro-techno-revolution/

At the Apollo in late December, we Afrofuturist acolytes bowed down and kissed Labelle's skyscraping stilettos, and were
rewarded with a glimpse into the Eternal.

This Simon Reynolds quote from his P & J essay "The People vs Vampire Weekend" about the detractors and supporters of Vampire Weekend is questionable imho, especially the second part (and I like Vampire) --

Vampire Weekend make more amusing and thought-provoking play from the signifiers of wealth and exclusivity than any rapper I've heard these past several years. (But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.)

At the Apollo in late December, we Afrofuturist acolytes bowed down and kissed Labelle's skyscraping stilettos, and were rewarded with a glimpse into the Eternal.

Is it saying the acolytes looked up her skirt?

x-post

The second part of the sentence makes sense if Simon has not listened to many hiphop records the past few years

Elsewhere there are comments from Ned R., Alfred S., and Phil F. to name a few ilx contributors

Top 25 singles (more listed on their site)

M.I.A., "Paper Planes" * **
Interscope Mentions: 107
2 Estelle featuring Kanye West, "American Boy"
Homeschool/Atlantic Mentions: 71
3 Beyoncé, "Single Ladies (Put a Ring on It)" **
Columbia Mentions: 59
4 MGMT, "Time to Pretend"
Columbia Mentions: 53
5 Lil Wayne, "A Milli"
Cash Money/Universal Mentions: 50
6 Santogold, "L.E.S. Artistes"
Warner Bros. Mentions: 49
7 Hercules & Love Affair, "Blind"
DFA Mentions: 46
8 Coldplay, "Viva La Vida"
Mentions: 39
9 Kanye West, "Love Lockdown" **
Mentions: 38
10 Fleet Foxes, "White Winter Hymnal"
Sub Pop Mentions: 32
11 Portishead, "Machine Gun"
Mercury Mentions: 25
12 Hot Chip, "Ready for the Floor"
DFA/Astralwerks Mentions: 25
13 T.I. (featuring Rihanna), "Live Your Life"
Atlantic Mentions: 23
14 T.I., "Whatever You Like"
Grand Hustle/Atlantic Mentions: 22
15 Rihanna, "Disturbia"
Def Jam Mentions: 21
16 Death Cab for Cutie, "I Will Possess Your Heart"
Atlantic Mentions: 21
17 Adele, "Chasing Pavements"
Sony Mentions: 20
18 MGMT, "Electric Feel"
Sony Mentions: 20
19 Pink, "So What"
Mentions: 20
20 Vampire Weekend, "Oxford Comma"
XL Mentions: 19
21 TV on the Radio, "Golden Age"
Interscope Mentions: 18
22 Young Jeezy feat. Kanye West, "Put On"
Def Jam Mentions: 18
23 Lykke Li, "Little Bit"
LL Recordings/EMI Mentions: 17
24 Duffy, "Mercy"
Polydor Mentions: 17
25 Ne-Yo, "Closer"
Def Jam Mentions: 16

...or if he's still on crack.

xp

Yep

They actually ran part of my comment? I'm honestly quite surprised.

shame I never made my bet w/ Whiney that "A Milli" wouldn't go to #1 an official cash wager, I coulda collected big time.

No one on the corner has swagger like us.

x-post-Lil' Wayne backlash or has the electorate changed or something else.

D.C. go-go band Mambo Sauce just put out a new version of their song "Welcome to D.C." with the new lyric, "never before have we had a president with a swagga like us."

I haven't read this essay yet--

Celebrating Mr. Carter's best means tolerating his worst
By Tom Breihan

I don't think it would've gotten to #1 at the height of "A Milli"-mania, backlash or no.

so this is pretty much what everyone expected, huh? i'll also say i'm pleased erykah got love

I know it's silly to complain about this poll being too MOR or whatever, but I'm kinda surprised how high Coldplay, Adele and Duffy got on the singles list.

I submitted an all-metal Top Ten, but if I hadn't, the Erykah Badu album would have made my list.

A guess--less bloggers and more contributors to regional newspapers. Also, internet or not, those who get commercial radio and tv or movie soundtrack attention do better, especially if they're pop.

Holy shit, that's like a Galactus of consensus

Where were you at ringtone cru?

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/singles/2008/WWFoaGgh

I wonder how many folks who voted in last year's idolator poll did or did not vote in this year's pazz & jop. I just spaced out on the name of that guy who does all the mathematical calculation on the number of ballots (etc.), but hopefully he will eventually show up here with such information.

That would be Glenn Mcdonald, who's currently busy helping with the roll out of the ILX Metal poll. But I'm sure he'll be here.

I didn't submit a ballot, just submitted the comment, but had there been an Idolator poll I would have done the same there.

"Donk" was almost on my ballot. "Yahhh" was never a contender.

Kinda surprised that I'm the only person that voted for "Lookin' Boy," but then part of my reasoning for voting for it was that everyone seemed to love it over the summer and then forget about it by September.

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2008/VGhlIFJlY2Vzc2lvbg==

Jeezy album ballots

they used my jeezy joke, which was nice. they also put me back in tennessee, where i haven't lived for 6 years, but that's ok. makes me sound more exotic.

torche was the highest album finisher i voted for. the only other things i voted for in the top 50 were jeezy and gang gang dance. i'm really kinda surprised how low ggd placed but shows what i know. also wondering how bad an album kanye will have to make to not get grandfathered into the top 10.

yeah, I knew 808s would be his lowest placing album to date, but I thought it'd be by a bigger margin (Graduation was only 1 spot higher last year). that album amassed a pretty large number of defenders.

any idea how many voted this time?

My favorite ballot so far (four Flipper albums!):

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/critics/2008/685463

I also think it's funny that the Top 40 albums includes bands called both Fleet Foxes and Frightened Rabbit (the latter of whom I swear I never heard of before, though I probably just wasn't paying attention.)

And Eddy Current Suppression Ring finished 73rd -- hey, that's pretty good! (Would have done even better if I'd voted for them, but still.)

woot Portishead!

I'm so tired of people always saying "woot Portishead"

woot woot Portishead

see, there they go again

Another thing I had no idea of til now: That some people still care about the Walkmen (32nd!?) and the Black Keys (55th).

Did Jess Harvell and M. Matos just post their lists at idolator or on blogs because they did not vote in P & J

so was that walkmen album any good after all? the third one was so blah i more or less gave up on 'em.

barely anyone voted for what i voted for, which i should be used to by now, but still bums me out.

seriously, only seven people voted for Atlas Sound, including me? come the fuck on.

only place i've seen Jess's top 10 is here: http://www.citypaper.com/special/story.asp?id=17187

matos' is there, too.

Thanks. x-post

But the Deerhunter one got a bunch of votes. I read someone describe the Walkmen album as a comeback effort that should be heard, but I never got around to hearing it.

I'm pretty sure both are considered persona non grata at New Times publications.

I seriously doubt the New Times would force P&J reject their ballots, though, if they wanted to vote. (Though I could be wrong.)

I totally forgot this was still happening!

(But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.)

I know this has already been called out, but WOW.

This ILM contributer also had a comment.

Btw: Is anyone else shocked Malkmus didn't place higher?

there's rock and there's rock. there's Zep and Can and the Heads, and then there's R.E.M. and all the suffocating indie scum they spawned (har, j/k there).

ok i actually agree w/ you though to some degree -- more because ive noticed a lot of times 'critics' (i guess im thinking more, uh, bloggers, or random ppl i hear at reckless talking about how great pop rap is) shortchange/misunderstand what IS interesting about a rap song by short-cutting their way to "rhythmically crazy" or something like that -- that in an effort to prop up a song you end up w/ an inaccurate caricature

anywayz while i recognize the trend you're describing i dont think defending simon here is a good time to come out w/ that point just because his sentence just seems like one in a long line of derogatitis to me --

and incidently i said 'a few hokey african rhythms' in a definite dishonest attempt to troll/be provocative rather than suggest rock music cant be rhythmically interesting

no argument there.

xp

and again to be clear im not shitting on VW or arguing down their worth, ive heard their stuff and it sounded perfectly fine to me -- but this hierarchical comparative stuff is just awful criticism imo

kinda surprised to hear Vampire Weekend's drummer referred to as "deft."

though maybe people hear tricky indie where i hear clumsy police

yeah their drummer is not all that. good band tho, good record, and i liked SR's defense of it. higher education has always been the elephant in the living room of indie rock; it seemed to me like a good & immediately legible idea to launch into that, on a formal/conceptual level. i was genuinely baffled to see critics of vampire weekend's age (i assume) launching into a retread of the paul simon wars, like, that's the point of this record, ppl?

xp I think you're kind of arguing against a strawman here. Arguing that they make deft use of rhythm in their songs and arguing that they are super-tight rhythmically as players (the latter of which no one here has done) are two different things.

i dunno how you make deft use of rhythm with a shitty drummer but ok if you say so.

other instruments play in rhythm too, interestingly enough

maybe they should fire him so I can focus on the part that deftly uses rhythm

I don't mind the drumming on their record. Certainly no powerhouse and occasionally a tiny bit sloppy, sure, but it works.

Haha croupier you are totally proving my point here by acting like rhythmic interest has to do with how good a drummer is

i didn't even notice they had a drummer the half dozen or so times i listened to 'em.

Can I just say that thank god this is an argument over something other than whether they really mean their boat shoes?

croupier you are totally proving my point here by acting like rhythmic interest has to do with how good a drummer is

I didn't say their rhythms weren't "interesting." I questioned the idea that their rhythms were "deftly handled."

Oh c'mon, dude, let's not do a whole "I know you know how to read" thing. I said:

the actual way they write and play songs involves pretty deft handling of rhythm. (I mean this in about the same way you'd say they were good at handling melodies -- meaning not that they're innovative or new, but that they deal with the stuff well and do entertaining things with it!)

good at handling melodies doesn't always mean the singer has a good voice; good at handling rhythm doesn't always mean the drummer is a virtuoso -- we are talking about elements of music and whether bands are good at dealing with them, whether or not they employ those elements of music in ways that seem effective and interesting and thought-through

I'm not saying the drummer has to be a virtuoso, but if the drummer has a hard time keeping a beat you'd think it would make their "deft" ability to "deal with rhythm well" a pretty theoretical pleasure - one I'd like to see elaborated on beyond "they deftly handle rhythm and by that I mean they deal with it well," esp if you're going to cluck that they don't merely jack a couple riffs from afropop or whatever.

boy, i went back (again) to that vampire weekend record, specifically after reading reynolds' thing and tried (again) to find anything interesting or engaging in it, and failed (again). i don't think their rhythms are "interesting," and i think it's weirdly patronizing to pretend that they are just because they (some of them) are omg-african. your average '70s boogie-rock album has way more "interesting rhythms" than the vampire weekend record, if by interesting we mean rhythmically engaging. i do think the relationship of modern indie to rhythm is an interesting subject (although prone to lots of strange and strained commentary, see also sfj), and the points touched upon up above about whether and how things like dfa fit into that picture make it a more complicated question than just pasty-white-boys-can't-funk. but in regards vampire weekend in particular, i just don't feel it, i don't get it. they seem to me like a less-funny less-catchy they might be giants.

But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.
But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.
But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.
But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.
But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.
But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.
But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.
But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.
But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.
But then, Vampire Weekend has more interesting rhythms than any hip-hop record I've heard these past several years.

http://www.losanjealous.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/vampire_weekend_04.jpg

feels so unnatural, Peter Gabriel too.

speaking of which: anyone heard Hot Chip and Peeta Gabriel too?

pink shorts = secret to awesome rhythms

i want to belatedly otm rev's point about rhythms in hip-hop being in the vocal lines as much or more than the beats. i know that's not what reynolds was thinking of, but that in itself says a lot.

pink shorts = secret to awesome rhythms

It's "riddims."

"riddim" this!

I went and looked up K'naan, who I didn't know. Album originally came out in 2005, so that might be part of why he didn't get more votes. But I think you'll agree that this, cribbed from iTunes, is all the explanation you need:

There is nothing i can say about K'naan accept pure poetry. This is the rap people should be listening to on the radios! I just can't imagine why this isnt more popular. Truely great in all ways K'naan Your a role model in the rap community.

Note that the apostrophe in "can't" is in the original.

if the drummer has a hard time keeping a beat you'd think it would make their "deft" ability to "deal with rhythm well" a pretty theoretical pleasure

i want to belatedly otm rev's point about rhythms in hip-hop being in the vocal lines as much or more than the beats

The appearance of these two statements in close proximity is not making me feel particularly better about the thing I'm saying bugs me -- in this case, one person thoughtfully talking about rhythm in hip-hop in terms of things like the fine metrical variations of the rapping, and another person talking about rhythm in a rock band in terms of "what beat is the drummer playing," as if rhythmic elements are not carried in vocal meter and guitar accents and melodies and c.!

(That is not really a bit of scolding, except like a half-scold to croupier, who is kinda weirdly asking for burden-of-proof elaboration from the person who's not offering a judgment here)

nabisco, do you actually hear something really rhythmically interesting going on in Vampire Weekend's vocal delivery and guitar lines you could expand on? (Also, even in hip-hop, the fact that the basic beat is still pretty solid is what allows for the 'fine metrical variations of the rapping' to actually sound like fine metrical variations, surely.)

xpost

yeah, i agree with what yr saying nabisco, except that to me vampire weekend's uninterestingness doesn't begin or end with their drummer or beats per se, neither of which i think are terrible. the band as a whole (very much including the vocals) don't strike me as very interesting, rhythmically or otherwise. in terms of the rhythms specifically, there's very little depth to the band's engagement with its grooves, but the shallowness isn't imaginatively shallow (or paranoid and skittery, like the kind of dry-brittle rhythms you get in yr finer post-punk material).

Nabisco, I realize that was addressed more at croup than me, but I'd be the first to tell you that what's interesting about VW, rhythmically comes more from the guitar, bass, and keys (less so the vocals) than strictly from the drumbeats. Probably even more so from the way they all interact!

Sundar, he's not passing judgment on Vampire Weekend's rhythmic interest. He's saying that since so few of us understand rhythm in the first place (some of us even think it requires competency on the part of the musicians to appreciate its deft handling!) we shouldn't throw stones at those who claim to find it interesting.

it's 2009

stop talking about this band

I think you have to wait for the follow-up for that to happen

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/4/7151287_5d254b3944.jpg?v=0

Nachtmystium, Assassins: Black Meddle Vol. 1: Melody and groove were once as taboo in black metal as smiling, group hugs, and subscriptions to Cat Fancy, but this Chicago battering ram harnesses both into moments of dirt-beneath-the-fingernails grandeur, harsh atmosphere and Pink Floyd–indebted sonic landscaping that add new hues to the genre's once monochromatic palate. The Euros have had black metal in a headlock since its inception, but these dudes begin to pry Scandinavia's clammy hands from around its throat.

Jason Bracelin
Las Vegas, NV

So I wonder if this metal band does exhibit "melody and groove"

They're into the groove on this video-

A vivid demonstration of Chuck's point about indie dominance: I just went through the top 100 looking up anybody I couldn't immediately hum something by, and it was uncanny how many had Fleet Foxes in their "listeners also bought" list. And uncanny how few I bought.

On the other hand, I've listened to "If Rap Gets Jealous" about 9 times now. Rather more charming in the original version, I think, so I don't know if that bodes well for the new album.

i can't believe i ran and collated a couple of consensus polls before

I've listened to "If Rap Gets Jealous" about 9 times now. Rather more charming in the original version, I think, so I don't know if that bodes well for the new album.

Haven't figured out which version (or which album, having just recently gotten the new one) I prefer yet, but I assume you know that Kirk Hammett plays on the new version, right? (Pretty sure I like it better than anything on last year's Metallica album.)

Yeah, not sure Kirk adds much, but I'll wait until I can hear a better-quality version of the new version before giving up on it.

hey, they do get into the "Stranglehold" groove there (sort of), Steve. no lie.

xp

Late to say something, but the whole Q-Tip album grows on you--I wish I'd thrown my points behind it instead of the usual non-placers. Oh, and I voted for four hip-hop albums. Didn't vote for The Dusty Foot Philosopher, but liked it.

It's interesting that Pazz & Jop got 577 people to vote, while Continuum Press 33 1/3 series got 597 FULL PROPOSALS for books last month.

Fascinating.

Well sure, but each proposal only had to come up with a single album, and it didn't even have to have made its "impact" this year...

This is beginning to feel like a dog's lost a bone.

I don’t think you’d like it but “the 59 sound” is one of my favorite records ever