Can vs. Kraftwerk

Can of whoopass

That's EXACTLY right, negotiable. I think you've figured everything out.

Faust

Neu!

yeah faust, no neu, fuck all non-answers

i honestly haven't really *heard* enuff kraftwerk to answer usefully. 'computer world' is the only kraftwerk that i'm in love with, but that 'in love with' ledger is sooo out of date.

that being said, can is my favorite rock band of all time, so you know. even if i heard all kraftwerk and loved it i'm not sure if it could equal can.

rhythmically can >>> kraftwerk

??

If you're already in love with Kraftwerk's "Computer World", you're already well ahead of the pack imho.

I'm being perverse and voting for Kraftwerk.

I don't know, it's just a gut feeling, probably because I've been listening to a lot more Kraftwerk than Can recently. I kind of prefer their pristine, shimmering perfection to Can's sprawling hippie jams. I love Can, don't get me wrong, but there's often just too much of the whiff of patchouli about them (not really a criticism, mind you). I find myself reaching for the Kraftwerk more often.

I've really been caning the synthpop lately. I mean, I've been listening to Yellow Magic Orchestra, FFS! Of course I'm going to vote for Kraftwerk, they invented all that.

I love Kraftwerk. I love Can. There's something cute and sweet about Kraftwerk, whereas Can come across as a bit smug and snooty.

Also in terms of humour, Ralf+Florian are funny and Holger Czukay isn't.

i dunno, cool in the pool is pretty funny.

Wow, I dunno, I have the opposite impression to you, Tom. Can seem to me to have more of a sense of humour, while Kraftwerk come across as cold and clinical.

Both were hugely innovative (can maybe moreso, but then again kraftwerk had a greater influence on popular music that came later) -- but there's something ultimately timeless about can. it's not the MOST challenging or weird stuff out there, but instead lies inside the uncanny valley of music. sure, it sounds sort of like other musics, but deep down there's a bizarre, unexplainable element that raises it up. my two cents.

come on, this guy is hilarious
http://a726.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/37/m_a32282c057fc2562916f2994fc23b90d.jpg
I vote Can by the way

I love me some Can (notably Monster Movie), but they don't hold a Teutonic candle to the `Werk.

it always amazes me that people can never see the humour in Krafwerks, er, work.

Kraftwerk are so much more fun and yeah 'Hippy' is a good way to describe those long winding songs of Can.

"I love me some Can (notably Monster Movie), but they don't hold a Teutonic candle to the `Werk."

dead wrong as usual, my friend.

I mean, when it comes to Krautrock, Can is tops IMO, and there is no second place. if there was a second place, though, it wouldn't be Kraftwerk, who I never liked after the Organisation record and Kraftwerk 1/2.

as for the hippie accusations, what's amazing is how focused their long tracks were in comparison to their always meandering and disappointing live recordings (where the hippie charges would be quite appropriate). they were geniuses at making records, a skill too few bands have ever had, in any area.

I get the feeling that this poll implicitly excludes the first few Kraftwerk albums?

Loads of bands directly ripped off Kraftwerk's schtick, whereas I can't think of any wholesale Can-imitators. Not sure whether that's a point pro or con in either case, though.

The two groups have sort of inverted aesthetic sensibilities I guess -- Can seems to take a more eclectic/genre-bending approach they do it with relatively traditional avantgardist intentions (modernist postmodernism), whereas Kraftwerk appropriate the trappings of modernism in a structurally postmodern way (postmodern modernism).

(Okay, that sounded 300% less stupid in my head before being typed out. Still, hopefully you get my point anyway.)

Can for being less German

as for the hippie accusations, what's amazing is how focused their long tracks were in comparison to their always meandering and disappointing live recordings (where the hippie charges would be quite appropriate). they were geniuses at making records, a skill too few bands have ever had, in any area.

Yeah, what they had was a genius producer who knew how to *edit* them. That's a different skill.

Jaki Leibezeit is better than anything Kraftwerk ever came up with. Sorry.

Apples are so much awesomer than oranges.

Another vote for Can. No intellectual arguments, it just is.

Apples are so much awesomer than oranges.

This should be the tagline for ILM, really.

Kraftwerks mid 70s to early 80s period are where they seem to be able to understand and connect to the (then) near future are why I voted for them.

Even Can's attempts to be connected (perhaps ironically?) such as 'I want more' don't compare to -for instance the moment in the live version of Radioactivity when the powerstations are spoken in the computer voice.

I agree with the comment about that there is a timelessness to Can that makes them more admirable in repeated listenings, and probably means they are more palatteble listening these days but it also means they never had the ability to really do something era defining and world changing.

Timelessness isn't always a good property. Nailing a time-mindedness is sometimes better, often it doesn't age well, but not always.

god you are so full of shit. either you feel can or you don't. and i'm really really sorry if you don't.

i love kraftwerk too.

i think bimble was otm above and so was jon abbey. jaki leibezeit is a world of his own. the edited long songs are so much more than the sum of their parts. kraftwerk is great, can is just greater. in a fresh cold gala apple is better than a pretty good orange from the supermarket way.

http://www.kraftafh.com.au/images/products/SingleServes/PC-Orange-Marmalade-2D.jpg vs. http://www.mccornbread.com/store/catalog/images/Dutch%20Apple%20Can.gif

(See what i did there?)

Oh, and BTW: Can

yes and i concur

i'm guessing there are a lot of silent kraftwerk voters

I find myself reaching for the Kraftwerk more often.

Me too. I voted Kraftwerk based on this simple fact -- it's how I do all my year end lists, too.

can. can. can.

kraftwerk are arguably more influential, more innovative, cleverer, maybe. however, on a purely personal level, I just don't feel it.

but every day is a mooneyday.

can,easy

either you feel Kraftwerk or you don't. and i'm really really sorry if you don't.

Also, La Dusseldorf hands down.

but every day is a mooneyday.

― m the g, Sunday, January 25, 2009 7:59 PM (Yesterday)

I am bored to tears by Kraftwerk and find myself only slightly yawning with Can. So Can wins as long as I don't have to listen to either anytime soon. Neu, on the other hand, I love. Go figure.

beatles vs. stones

lol thanks for posting, Milton! Fancy seeing you of all people here, etc.

oh, this is still going!

I am bored to tears by Kraftwerk and find myself only slightly yawning with Can. So Can wins as long as I don't have to listen to either anytime soon. Neu, on the other hand, I love. Go figure.

― EZ Snappin, Monday, January 26, 2009 12:28 AM (8 hours ago)

It is funny that you would post on a board called I Love Music Then

jokes obv

god you are so full of shit. either you feel can or you don't. and i'm really really sorry if you don't

Best argument yet for voting Kraftwerk.

The supporters of Kraftwerk seem more fun and like less wanky

Oh, it's no contest. Kraftwerk.

I love me some Kraftwerk, but have been on the semi-annual "Oh my God, Can REALLY were good, weren't they?" trip lately. Every now and then, I hear a Can track that I don't remember as strongly, and get this verve to dig through their catalog again. Kraftwerk rarely does that for me, and often their stuff isn't as good as I remember it (well, and my copy of Radioactivitat is worn out, so that may be part of it).

After years of thought, I conclude that this vs. battle strikes me as a... (wait for it)... TOSS-UP.

Next TS: receiving blowjobs vs. fucking.

Every time I listen to the Future Days title track, I'm astonished that music like that could be crafted by human beings. Sounds like a number one pop song from another galaxy.

Can, all day. If you think otherwise, you're clearly lacking vitamin C.

Kraftwerk > Can >>> God

Every time I listen to the Future Days title track, I'm astonished that music like that could be crafted by human beings. Sounds like a number one pop song from another galaxy.

Then you turn the record over and play "Bel Air" and think, "Oh fuck, it's prog rock".

Battle of the Symphonic Epics: Autobahn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bel Air

This is hard.

CAN

This is hard.

― sleeve, Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:48 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark

Been pondering this question a lot since it popped up, still haven't decided... I'm a geek.

heh, same here.

this is the toughest one for me since stooges vs. sabbath.

it basically comes down to future days vs. computer world for me.

Can don't feature on the Hip House remix of 'Travellin' at the Speed of Thought' by The Ultramagnetic MC's so win by the width of a bicycle wheel.

Kraftwerk have several incredible songs and I love Computer World as an album (melancholy electronica, always a winner) but I came to them after hearing a lot of the stuff they directly influenced (Human League, OMD, New Order) and still like a lot of those bands more. Can, on the other hand, seem like they're in a field of their own and I'd rate Future Days as one of the 20 or so best records ever.

How can you make me choose? Bastards.

I voted Can just because I'm a sucker for Jaki Liebzeit's drumming and the hook on "Tango Whiskeyman." And because I discovered Kraftwerk before I discovered Can so they're less new-and-awesome except for I love them for life and now I wish I could change my vote.

This is your fault.

Kraftwerk have several incredible songs and I love Computer World as an album (melancholy electronica, always a winner) but I came to them after hearing a lot of the stuff they directly influenced (Human League, OMD, New Order)

This is interesting.

I think my order of acquaintance was New Order -> Kraftwerk -> OMD -> Human League.

I still don't get the reason for the contest--they're both German? They're both German and fantastic and influential?

I mean, I know it's just the internet.

Let's talk about, save for the throw-away last three tracks (a poor decision to go out on a joke), 'Can' (1979) is a very underrated album, perhaps the most so of their post '74 output? "Safe" alone is a mindblower, a truly great dark disco track. Can doing disco was born to appeal to me; but the album just has a great dark sleekness to it that I love. "Sunday Jam" floats along above the clouds, "Aspectacle" is great bouncy weirdo disco-pop, "All Gates Open" is like a chilled out funk take on motorik. I would think it should get at least as much love as La Dusseldorf or the like.

Also, 'Out of Reach' is good. The "disowning" is silly.

Actually, I think a good argument could be made for any of their post-Babaluma albums being a lost masterpiece. There are some days that I would put Saw Delight or their self-titled at nearly the same level as their early 70s stuff (though going for a different vibe obviously).

Anyway, this poll's kind of hard for me. Kraftwerk is probably the "objectively better" band, but I listen to Can more. I love both though. I guess I'll go with Can.

pre-emptory non-machine generated revive

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

And I still haven't decided... fuck this poll ;_;

which band has a more favoriter album?

Future Days vs Man Machine for me (today), probably. kill me now.

This nonsense has to stop. I'll vote Can, but I'll do it under protest.

Look, it's not like you have to dis or hate on the one you don't vote for. We all love them both, it's just... which one do you like *better*?

I know that, but sometimes it's really difficult to decide, or find out, which one you like better. And ultimately I'd have to go with Can I think. The journey towards making that choice has been a good one though, thought about - and listened to both - a lot again.

For me I guess it seems like maybe Kraftwerk did more to create (or hone) a vocabulary that directly informed an immense amount of music thereafter.

Can is in a way much less imitable--it'd be hard to say that their musical ideas actually directly informed that many later musicians. I'd tend to guess at their broader significance being more akin to my non-musician's personal experience of them: they utterly catalysed my listening, altered my expectations of "rock music," changed my sense of context. So maybe their influence is less easy to point out in later music, because it was more of an influence on how people heard, more than how they played?

Anyway, probably total B.S.--maybe every third post-punk band were directly trying to rip off Can (the rest aping Kraftwerk, Roxy Music, or their favorite dub bassist) and just couldn't do it, whereas plenty of synthpop/Italo bands and electro/hip-hop producers came close to getting right what Kraftwerk were on about.

But I guess that means if we're voting purely personally--Can had more effect on me, so I'd vote Can.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I can live with that

so by the law of transitive property: Can >>>> Kraftwerk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Radiohead?

so by the law of transitive property: Can >>>> Kraftwerk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Radiohead?

Pretty much, yeah.

Interesting - this would have been a much different poll in 2002 (if ILM had polls then).

Interesting - this would have been a much different poll in 2002 (if ILM had polls then).

Hmm--why do you think that is? What could have happened in the last seven years to alter peoples' perceptions about two (now) 40-year old bands? I didn't notice a major reappraisal of Can during that time, but I guess I wasn't looking to see one, either. Only thing that changed for me was coming around to a better appreciation of the mid/late Can, and the pre-'Autobahn' Kraftwerk.

Well, I think it's more because in 2002 ILM was a lot smaller and a larger percentage of contributors were in a pop frame of mind, so Kraftwerk as a pop music force would have won out, I'm guessing. Although I do think there's a lot more appreciation of later Can since then, you are right about that, since at that time it was pretty hard to find a lot of that stuff. Not to many people talked about Can after Soon Over Babaluma, it seems like.

I dunno, 2002? Think the result would have been the same.

Victory for rockism.

maybe every third post-punk band were directly trying to rip off Can

Unlikely

Well, include two degrees of separation, it'll be true...

How come?

Swell Maps definitely ripped off Can, that much is true!

xpost meaning every third band was ahem 'inspired' by some other current band who would possibly have heard a Can album because JLydon told them to, or that current band wuld be inspired by another contemporaneous band that had one member who etc....

John Lydon mentioned lot of artists/bands he liked, he didn't single out Can for particular praise. A few journalists made the connection between PiL and Can, I don't think JL did.

Oh sure, but there was that Tommy Vance interview/show where he played the whole of "Halleluwah".

(Somebody must have that on tape somewhere, surely?)

I assume he played the whole of whatever else songs he played

Oh sure, but then, "Born for a purpose" isn't 18 mins long....