What makes a happy song?

not having any member of the Manics or Radiohead playing on the track.

upbeat lyrics, an arrangement to match, a general exuberance in the vocal. examples: "and then he kissed me," "it's a beautiful morning," "do you believe in magic," "play in the sunshine," etc.

Yes, Fred, but what defines upbeat lyrics? I know you gave examples but...*shrugs* What makes a lyric upbeat? Depending on my mood, "And Then Then He Kissed Me" ISN'T an upbeat song. I tend to find love songs extremely depressing, actually, so that wouldn't be upbeat to me - what makes it upbeat for you?

And "Do You Believe In Magic?" is never, ever upbeat, because it is one of the most annoying songs ever, and it also makes me think of that advert for McDonalds. "Do you believe in magic? Well I hope you do, cos you'll always have a friend wearing big red shoes!" ARRRGH.

Not having any words is often a good idea, so you can't misinterpret them - I suppose I'm talking about "uplifting choons" here. The moment words come in it gets tricky - even happy hardcore often had this undercurrent of don't-let-the-joy-stop yearning to it.

There was a phenomenally huge and boring argument on Usenet once about whether an instrumental could be a 'song'.

I will ask Isabel about this since she often claims only to like happy songs.

A "happy song" is an individual experience, obviously some bands do set out to write songs about happy subjects (love gone right, sunny days, walks in the park, peace) but this in itself doesn't make a song happy. I think any song that makes a person feel good (ie uplifted, warm fuzzy feelings etc) is therefore a "happy song". On this notion songs by the MSP and the Radioheads could be considered happy songs. Whilst happy little songs like "Barbie Girl" could leave the listener quite unimpressed. Yep, so my standard answer as always is that individual differences (experiences, peer group, location etc) could affect how a song is 'heard'.

luckily i don't share that same experience re: "do you believe in magic?" i think i've only seen it in, like, an endust commercial.

obviously, we see that both depressing songs and happy songs are subjective. if i go any further than upbeat lyrics, i delve into the realm of what *I* find to be upbeat lyrics. leaving it as it is, it leaves it up to the individual to define. i find "and he kissed me" upbeat and "happy" because, along with the thrill of the music, it conveys the feeling of being young and in love. obviously, if you are neither young nor in love, it verges on depressing unless it takes you back to a time when you were both.

probably anything involving dancing would be considered a happy song.

as tom suggests, a song without lyrics would be ideal. i'd call "soulfinger" a "happy" song.

i have a friend who only likes sad/melancholy songs, and finds happy songs depressing.

she thinks flowchart's 'oshkosh wonderboy' is sad, i think it's happy. we both love it though.

I humbly submit that "Dancing With Tears In My Eyes" by Ultravox is probably not too cheerful, being Midge Ure's rumination on some sort of nuclear incident having done for his family. There are various other miserable-dancing songs which spring to mind but I won't go on about it because I realise that this already constitutes a curmudgeonly response.

"Dancing In The Dark" is a weird one, though, now that I come to think about it. I have always found the song profoundly miserable in pretty much every way, but I seem to recall people finding it life- affirming. Now, once upon a time I might have said that this was because those people were stupid, but I would have been wrong: they *were* finding it life-affirming. Very odd.

I feel I should say "country music" here also, but I really haven't the time to think about where joyous and miserable rub up against each other in country. Perhaps some of you might do that for me?

Dancing in the Dark? The Springsteen song? I never thought that seemed like a happy song, more a desperate one...how strange. To each their own, maybe people think the protagonist and his object of affection are getting together and going to be happy forever or some such. I find most Springsteen songs desperate and depressing.

Anyhow, to answer my own question...I don't really have an answer. It's more about how I perceive the song. I don't perceive MSP's Faster as a depressing song, despite obviously being about mental illness to me, because it's not about being upset over it. It's about justification and I think it's a good justification song, and it leaves me feeling better. Whereas a pop song like Baby One More Time depresses the hell out of me because she just sounds so lonely.

I find a lot of the music that is made to uplift you and make you happy makes me depressed - especially stuff like disco - i don't know why but the majority of commercial late 70's disco really brings me down - i suppose speed garage et al do so too.

so tom...is a instrumental a song?

bells.. yeah, and tamborines. bouncy beats.

i think people who find "dancing in the dark" an "uplifting" song are those who a) see the word "dancing" in the title and think: good and b) those who watch the video with bruce dancing (!!) with courteney cox. that's the only way to explain it.

Coming from someone who just confessed to me that he DOESN'T KNOW THE LYRICS TO THE SONG, I think that's a crap thing to say. Explain what the lyrics are about then, Fred. It's like someone else said - what makes one person feel uplifted is different from what another person might say. It's in your perception of the song - if someone else's perception of the song is that the thing has a happy ending, good for them. I mean, it's certainly a lot more explanable than people who think Born in the USA is a patriotic tune.

Songs with "happy" or "joyous" lyrics usually aren't the ones that actually make me feel happiness or joy. In fact, a lot of "positive" lyrics actually bring me down. Often, to me, lines like "Don't let life bring ya' down," "Everything's gonna be alright," etc., reek of self-help program/advice column preachiness. And, of course, if you're in a self-help program or reading an advice column, it means that everything is NOT hunky dory, that your life is somewhat messed up, and that's a depressing thing to face. It feels like therapy-- not to be confused with something therapeutic, which may be but usually is NOT designed with the intention of it being therapy.

Usually for me it's the music, rather than (or in spite of) the lyrics, that I find uplifting: the surge of the instruments, the way a chord drops so PERFECTLY, or a singer executes a line so beautifully that you want to raise your arms to the sky. (Yeah, that's corny, but so what?) And I don't really care what he or she is saying, but it all seems so perfect and unspeakable. I just discovered them a few months ago, but the Chameleons make me feel incredibly happy. Their first album "Script of the Bridge" is actually a fairly dark affair lyrically, but the music--the MUSIC--is complete soaring joy. But isn't it all a matter of taste (whatever that means), anyway? This is a difficult but great thread.

The word "empathy" has entered my mind. A certain level of empathy is required to connect with the song (or piece of music) and produce emotion (-ve or +ve) I think, maybe.

"Do You Believe In Magic" isn't happy, per se, it's simply profound. One of my favorite pop songs. Ever. There's no escaping the sentiment. (Unless you're nuts of course. I'll excuse you.)

As far as "happy" music goes, I'd say the tone of the music has to be upbeat (major key, not too slow). And the lyrics have to at least be able to be diguised as pleasant. Strangely enough, cliched chord progressions help (such as the 1-4 found in "Do You Believe...", not in "Heroin," though). We all like familiarity, right?

"And She Was" by the Talking Heads always cheers me up. It's just so damn catchy.

I can usually tell when someone's kidding... a happy song is one where the production and lyrics are such that I can tell that the singer believes every word.

Good Happy Songs:

LOVE TRAIN I Believe I Can Fly Happy Happy Joy Joy Rock 'N' Roll pt. 2 Native Melody (This Must Be The Place) Hot Pants (cf. Sex Machine) Down To The River To Pray

I always liked Ave Maria...

'You've Not Changed' - Sandie Shaw 'You Can Make Me Dance, Sing Or Anything' - The Faces 'Disappointed' - Morrissey 'Walk Don't Run' - John Barry 'He's Sure The Boy I Love' - The Crystals 'Give Him A Great Big Kiss' - The Shangri-Las 'I'm Always Touched By Your Presence Dear' - Blondie

Oh, just millions of songs. It's true that a lot of upbeat love songs can straddle the happy/sad line, depending on one's mood, but at worst it's a joyous kind of sad. I guess I'm just a hopeless romantic.

One of the happiest songs in existence is "Walking On Sunshine" by Katrina and the Waves.

But I find Walking on Sunshine too oppressively happy, a song that literally tries to batter you over the head with cheerfulness. I think a song can be light and joyous without cramming it down your throat the way Katrina & the Waves did.

an interesting question. i need to first remind myself to distinguish between a song that is exciting and energizing ("mama said knock you out," say, or "suffragette city") and one that seems genuinely joyous ("ask," say). _psychocandy_ is probably the most uplifting pop album in my collection and the nihilistic, self- loathing lyrics are part of the reason. why? perhaps because the upbeat, catchy music and ecstatic feedback seem to put quotes around the lyrical sentiments? make them seem humorous or cathartic/exciting in their perversity? likewise, the basically suicidal lyrics to mbv's "drive it all over me" seem delightfully ironic given their musical context. some current favourite happy songs:

the beatles -- "dear prudence"

led zeppelin -- "dancing days"

yes -- "starship trooper"

"anarchy in the uk"

r.e.m. -- "carnival of sorts (boxcars)"

new order -- "age of consent"

the jesus and mary chain -- "my little underground"

the smiths -- "ask"

my bloody valentine -- "drive it all over me"

cinderella -- "take me back"

team dresch -- "screwing yer courage"

the magnetic fields -- "nothing matters when we're dancing"

third eye blind -- "never let you go"

goodie mob -- "the dip"

Nicole:

The overbearing nature of "Walking On Sunshine" is one of the things that makes it work for me. It's aggressively, offensively, blindingly happy. It grabs you by the shirt collar and snatches you onto your feet, demanding that you dance because no one is allowed to sit around and be mopey when Katrina is so damn HAPPY!

Sundar makes a good point with Third Eye Blind's "Never Let You Go". That's another song I find to be indescribably joyous, although in that one I think it's just the jangly guitar. Another grandly happy song is "I Wouldn't Normally Do This Kind Of Thing" by Pet Shop Boys.

A lot of people say that "Shiny Happy People" is a joyous almost saccharine happy song... I've never seen that... i always thought it was one of REMs darker tracks - no?

Sundar nominated New order's 'Age of consent'

That's weird. I always thought as that as a terribly bleak song. When it trails off into "I've lost you, I've lost you, I've lost you" I go all blank and starey.

I'm glad that someone mentioned "Ask" - but even that, though it's as summery a record as I can think of, isn't unambiguously lyrically happy.

I like 'Dancing In The Dark'. I like most Bruce Springsteen records. I'm stupid.

'Friday I'm In Love' - surely that was meant to be a happy song.

I think Keiko has been the only one to mention the most common component of a happy sounding tune - that it be written in a MAJOR KEY. Imagine transposing 'Walking on Sunshine' into a minor key and suddenly it'd be a psychotic sounding sonic assault. I might even end up liking it. A quick pace with a groove that simulates the rhythm of bouncy walking or skipping is also a sure hallmark of happiness.

J'suis d'accord by Francoise Hardy sure sounds happy (almost to the point of corniness, but not quite), and it has that bouncy walking rhythm.

If it's got a tamborine, it's a happy song.

"Shiny Happy People" at #1. I read somewhere that Stipe wrote that song by trying to come up with a phrase that forced you to smile in the pronunciation of it. I'm surprised not to see "Don't Worry (Be Happy)" on that list.

Derek & Ray - 'Interplay'

I note with interest that 'I Will Survive' makes it to that poll that Custos links to, which is funny as I was just thinking that 'Dancing In The Dark' was some kind of male version of 'I Will Survive', even though I can't really justify this argument.

Easy answer: Otis Redding going "Da da, da da de da dum."

sure sign that it's a happy song -- alex in nyc hates it!

oh yeah, gg allin's "i wanna fuck yer brains out" and the rezillos "someone's gonna get their head kicked in tonight" are both very happy songs.

"heaven is a place on earth" by belinda carlisle is a pretty happy song

A happy song does not have to make you happy. It does not
have to sing and dance for you. A happy song is happy because
it says it is.