The Verve Pipe's "The Freshman" vs. Pearl Jam's "Last Kiss"

Fuck you: "Last Kiss."

where are you getting these weird-ass match ups

freshman

Having never heard "Last Kiss," I will still vote for it b/c being a college freshman VP's home when that song came out state was a goddam miserable experience (b/c everyone could sooooo relate to it, it was the go-to sentimental post-party drunk weep-along for every douchebag on campus).

*in VP's home state

this should have been 'the fresman' vs 'brick'

+h

i knew that was coming, but the girl doesn't die in "brick," ok?

also "brick" would kill "the freshman"

are there any other mainstream songs to put on an "gfs having an abortion in the 90s is sad" mix-tape?

oh ok i wasn't thinking about the topical nature of the songs...tbh i never had any idea what "The Freshman" was about, it was always just a boring sad-sounding song talking about something vaguely sad to me, i just had to wiki to find out what it's about.

Having never heard "Last Kiss," I will still vote for it b/c being a college freshman VP's home when that song came out state was a goddam miserable experience (b/c everyone could sooooo relate to it, it was the go-to sentimental post-party drunk weep-along for every douchebag on campus).

I went to school in Kalamazoo, Mich., in the early/mid '90s. The Pipe were playing that fucking song for years before it became famous. The college radio station played it constantly. They then went on to release, like, six more versions. It truly is a tune for scumbag frat assholes who treat women like shit and blame it all on the folly of youth.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/59/Tvp_myspace.gif

The girl in the song is based on Vander Ark's girlfriend at the time -- who really had an abortion. However, she didn't actually commit suicide like in the song, which Vander Ark said was poetic license.

^^^really weird

(xxpost: ha ha, I was just writing this while you posted that) yeah, to clarify: I don't think most of said douchebags in my initial post understood what it was about, either. They just liked that the hometown-band-done-good singing about being freshmen gave them something vaguely profound to drunkenly relate to.

And yeah, I remember that song being VP's only real meal ticket, which they exploited at every given opportunity.

xxpost

yeah if I were her I'd be pissed. "you had me kill myself so the song would be better?"

produced by Jerry Harrison!

The song was written after watching the film The Freshman starring Marlon Brando and Matthew Broderick. In an interview, Vander Ark says, "At some point in our lives, we're all freshmen. We are all at that point when we think we know everything but we don't know shit"

Christgau lol:

Villains [RCA, 1996]

Although bands like this still offend idealists, you can't call them pseudoalternative anymore, because they don't bother pretending. They're just rockers who crash the album chart, where the money is, from the singles chart, where they're supposedly no longer welcome--in other words, pop bands who can play their axes. There's San Francisco's gold-certified Third Eye Blind, whose little sex kinks are too catchy to get het up about. There's Orlando's double-platinum Matchbox 20, whose breakthrough hit some mistakenly (as is always claimed) believe promotes spousal abuse. But the one I really can't stand is this near-pseudoalternative one, grown men from Michigan who released two indie albums before their major-label debut catapulted to platinum on a soggy prowoman morality tale aimed at frat rats, who are urged not to drive girls to suicide by dumping them. When Brian Vander Ark finally emotes the chorus, it's like, I dunno, grunge lives. C

there were some alright jams on that verve pipe album imo. freshman gets the nod over the maudlin weepy 50s bullshit of last kiss.

did you ever knock up your girlfriend?

n

ok lolllll at this:

"The Freshman", according to Brian Vander Ark himself.

WHEN I WAS YOUNG I KNEW EVERYTHING.

- We all think we know everything at a young age. I thought I did. I realise I didn't know sh*t until I was 36.

AND SHE, A PUNK, WHO RARELY TOOK ADVICE.

- How many people do we know like that?

NOW I'M GUILT STRICKEN, SOBBING, WITH MY HEAD ON THE FLOOR.

- Something happened, that caused this reaction, but I wouldn't want to give that away this early in the song, so let's throw in some ambiguity.

STOP A BABY'S BREATH, AND A SHOE FULL OF RICE, NO.

- First of all, forget the NO. Stop a baby's breath is just that. Abort the baby. A shoe full of rice is a result of a wedding. So, stop a baby's breath AND then you stop a wedding. She's pregnant, get her to abort, and then there's no wedding. And you know what?

I CAN'T BE HELD RESPONSIBLE, CAUSE SHE WAS TOUCHING HER FACE.

- When I wrote this song, the Divinyls had a song out called "I Touch Myself". She was touching her face in the video. Very sexy. So, I can't be held responsible because she was trying to be sexy, trying to seduce me, etc.

I WON'T BE HELD RESPONSIBLE, SHE FELL IN LOVE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

- I didn't tell her to fall in love.

FOR THE LIFE OF ME, I CANNOT REMEMBER WHAT MADE US THINK THAT WE WERE WISE, AND WE'D NEVER COMPROMISE.

- What was I thinking back then. Who am I to put a girl though that? Why was I unable to compromise? Guilty feelings.

FOR THE LIFE OF ME, I CANNOT BELIEVE WE'D EVER DIE FOR THESE SINS, WE WERE MERELY FRESHMEN.

- We were just kids. Let it go. We all make mistakes, etc.

MY BEST FRIEND TOOK A WEEK'S VACATION TO FORGET HER.

- He needed to get away because of what happened.

HIS GIRL TOOK A WEEK'S WORTH OF VALIUM AND SLEPT.

- Now, this is why this song is not that strong literally. It's confusing. HIS girl is MY girl. The same girl that had the abortion has now killed herself.

NOW HE'S GUILT-STRICKEN SOBBING WITH HIS HEAD ON THE FLOOR, THINKS ABOUT HER NOW AND HOW HE NEVER REALLY WEPT HE SAYS.

- He has the same guilty feelings that I do about the abortion and death.

WE TRIED TO WASH OUR HANDS OF ALL OF THIS, WE NEVER TALK OF OUR LACKING RELATIONSHIPS.

- We rarely spoke after the incident. We just tried to forget it. We never spoke of her or the fact that we can't have a decent relationship with anyone since then.

WE FELL THROUGH THE ICE WHEN WE TRIED NOT TO SLIP.

- No matter how careful you might be, there are other perils out there.

There you go. I realise that there are always a few skeptics in the group, so I'll say this: The girl is real, the abortion is real. The death is not.
It's poetic license -- to make the story more interesting.

It truly is a tune for scumbag frat assholes who treat women like shit and blame it all on the folly of youth. - a short time later, these same assholes adopted "Push" by Matchbox 20 as their sad-drunk anthem & took the lyrics literally.

I would pay money to hear him perform the song like that

ok which one is the maudlin weepy bullshit?

k i mean to be fair they both are but last kiss is just so pitiful. it's the song equivalent of those 50s scare-tactic safety films.

That may be, but "The Freshman" is the song equivalent of getting raped by Nazi stormtroopers.

i like that he admits he didn't know shit until 9 years after he wrote "The Freshmen"

I would pay money to hear him perform the song like that

― iatee, Friday, April 3, 2009 2:29 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah, i don't even care that he doesn't have any other hits, give this man a VH1 Storytellers

MY BEST FRIEND TOOK A WEEK'S VACATION TO FORGET HER.

- He needed to get away because of what happened.

WE FELL THROUGH THE ICE WHEN WE TRIED NOT TO SLIP.

Just think of what Bernard Sumner could do with this.

stop holding him responsible

the way he says "responsumbulll" is the most memorable thing about this song for me

HIS GIRL TOOK A WEEK'S WORTH OF VALIUM AND SLEPT.

- Now, this is why this song is not that strong literally. It's confusing. HIS girl is MY girl. The same girl that had the abortion has now killed herself.

does anyone actually know what this means? i feel like he's explaining a confusing movie plot or something but not making any sense.

this song is like a lynchian mindtrip

its like the Last Year in Marienbad of 90s alternaschlock

what do you guys think happened at age 36?

he knocked a girl up but didn't make her abort it

what do you guys think happened at age 36?

He found a dusty, old bottle of roofies in his attic.

OMG I sing "The Freshman" to myself all the time. It is as fun to sing as "Hunger Strike."

FO-HORRRRRRR the life of ME
I CAN NOT believe we EVER GOT forty cents

we were only FRESHmen

String section at the end, this shit is just golden.

His girl took a weeks worth of VAL-YUM and slapped her

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

AND SHE, A PUNK, WHO RARELY TOOK ADVICE.

- How many people do we know like that?

(seven)

This is the only ILM thread (half) devoted to The Verve Pipe, so whatevs. THEY'VE MADE A KIDS RECORD

After being approached to submit a song for a compilation album called "Calling All Kids," the band found that the creative sessions yielded far more than just the one track. This led to an idea of a complete album of family friendly songs, and the CD was born. Also note, the groundwork of these same sessions has also set in motion a new rock CD to follow the family album as well. Stay tuned for lots of new material from The Verve Pipe!

http://www.thevervepipe.com/family/

Weirdly, it's not as terrible as one would expect.

'Freshmen' is so painful. For heaven's sake stop pleading your case. You fucked up. Man up bitch

he can't be held responsible, dude

al-qaeda can't be held responsible
this youtube video makes a good case
al-qaeda won't be held responsible
did they even fall in the first place?

freshmen was awesome, had the single, gonna go put it on repeat now

and follow it up with some jumper

maybe some closing time

had to youtube silverchair's 'tomorrow'

lyrical geniuses imo

Some Dude is off the mark when he says 'Freshman' is boring. I WISH IT WAS BORING. In fact, the tune ain't all that bad. The singing is fine. It's just the lyrics that are an apalling mess of barfaroni

yeah maybe it's not boring and i just don't know because i changed the station 99% of the times it came on the radio tbh. i feel bad that their first hit "Photograph" was pretty good but got completely overshadowed by the follow-up.

if you're holding out for good lyrics you are massively limiting your music listening

for the life of me, i cannot remember :-(

if you don't even want good lyrics you are massively limiting your appreciation of vocal music

mookie, I am the guy that tells people to stop caring too much about lyrics. It's only really bad lyrics that affect me (for the most part)

It's just the whole thing about the verve singer having the nerve to plead his case over a fucken mistake he could of easily prevented. Makes me want to punch him in the face repeatedly

On the bus trip to and from highschool I had to listen to 'Freshman' almost everyday

on the bus trip to and from middle school i had to listen to ac/dc's 'big balls' almost every day

It's just the whole thing about the verve singer having the nerve to plead his case over a fucken mistake he could of easily prevented. Makes me want to punch him in the face repeatedly

― that's cute, but it's WRONG (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, September 14, 2011 9:50 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark

yes how could he of been so careless with words

don't know what made him think he was so wise that he could never compromise on the lyrics

"We were only Freshmen" is degrading to mature Freshmen

"When I was young I went on a shooting spree"
"I can't be held responsible"
"We were merely freshmen"

I won't be held responsible.

great karaoke song

i mean kind of a bummer i guess but so fun to sing

BRAD

if you’ve never sung a song that you kinda hate at karaoke have you really done it

Seems like kind of an “unreliable narrator” situation, no(?) — i.e., the song is not necessarily “siding with” the narrator, or endorsing his protestations in the pre-chorus?

(I don’t deny it’s a bad song, but I think the fact he’s an “asshole” may be intentional, and the point of the lyrics...)

if you’ve never sung a song that you kinda hate at karaoke have you really done it

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Sunday, May 6, 2018 10:13 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

How I Finally Forgave Blues Traveler

if you’ve never sung a song that you kinda hate at karaoke have you really done it

― flamenco drop (BradNelson),

you should've been at MoPOP karaoke last Saturday! The theme: Alfred's Worst Songs Ever.