Follow-ups to minor classics that were a letdown at the time but turned out to be mostly pretty good 1988-91

Goo for me. It's probably as similar to Daydream Nation as any SY album is to its immediate predecessor, but because there were 2 or 3 kinda goofy songs and it was their first major label album it just got spun as if it was different.

fuck i missed De La Soul Is Dead, by far my favorite. oh well, already voted.

Key Lime Pie is CVB's best album

could also make a good argument that De La Soul is Dead is their best as well

Steady Diet of Nothing is fucking incredible so I'm afraid I'm out.

With the exception of Fishbone, every band on here that I know and like is represented by the album that made me fall in love with them.

fuck The Feelies, tho

the Feelies are great but Only Life is not

ha that's the only album by them I've heard and it made me never, ever, ever want to hear them again

Crazy Rhythms is THE album. Very different from Only Life... not sure that means you would like it though.

here it is

Key Lime Pie is CVB's best album

^^^^ This.

Only Life is my favorite Feelies, agreed with the Key Lime Pie love, too

Camper Van Beethoven - Key Lime Pie 89
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead 91
Fishbone - The Reality of My Surroundings 91
The Pixies – Doolittle 89
R.E.M. – Green 88
Sonic Youth – Goo 90
The The - Mind Bomb 89
The Woodentops - Wooden Foot Cops On A Highway 88
XTC – Oranges & Lemons 89

I have always thought all of these albums are badass

I voted Key Lime Pie, and on that note, this.

"and justice for all" is my favorite metal album ever, so that.

Doolittle was a disappointment at the time?

Key Lime Pie is pretty much a perfect album

xpost yeah i have to admit that a lot of these im having trouble seeing as generally having been disliked at the time they were released, at least not from what i remember

So many but I will vote for The Cult!

the Fishbone record was hugely popular at the time, at least in my ATL-area high school; def. not seen as a letdown at the time for us.

I think the criteria here is "disliked by Fastnbulbous" because I'm hard-pressed to find an album here that isn't a critical darling, a fan-favorite or both.

Green Mind was kind of seen as a letdown if I recall, but mostly because of sellout accusations. I just played the shit out of "The Wagon" and ignored the haters.

Soul Asylum - And The Horse They Rode In On 90

I just got done listening to this and then opened this thread. Voted for the whole serendipity of it all, and it's still a pretty good record. That bass drum beat going into the final chorus of "All the King's Friends".

Also, great multiple album covers.

I remember thinking at the time that about half of the ones on this list were letdowns: my first published record review came from feeling this way about Steady Diet. But I liked the De La and Pixies just fine and the REM and Sonic Youth seemed like returns to form, so hey, to each their own. Of those that seemed like missteps at the time (CVB, Dinosaur, 11th Dream Day, Fugazi and most definitely the Soul Asylum) only the Dream Day record really came back for me so I'm voting for that. I'd have voted for Fakebook if it was here.

The Cult – Sonic Temple 89
The Feelies - Only Life 88
R.E.M. – Green 88
The Replacements – Don’t Tell A Soul 89
The The - Mind Bomb 89

I'll confess these are all pretty terrible records I don't ever really wanna hear again. The XTC one is weak as well, but its hurt by the douple album length - there's still enough good songs on there for me to appreciate it on the whole.

Everyone's going to have different experiences with these albums. It is arguable now that Key Lime Pie is CVB's best, but at the time it was hard to imagine for a lot of people. For point of reference, these are the minor classics I'm referring to:

CBV - Our Beloved Revolutionary Sweetheart
Cult - Electric
De La Soul - 3 Ft High N Rising
Dinosaur Jr. - Bug
EDD - Prairie School Freakout
Feelies - The Good Earth
Felt - Pictorial Jackson Review
Fishbone - Truth and Soul
Metallica - duh
Pixies - Surfer Rosa
R.E.M. - Document
Replacements - Pleased To Meet Me
Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation
Soul Asylum - Hang Time
The The - Infected
Woodentops - Giant
XTC - Skylarking

I don't think I'm the only one that thought Doolittle sounded a bit tame and ordinary compared to the shocking brilliance of Surfer Rosa. Like I said, I appreciated it more later on, but never as much as the previous one.

CBV - Our Beloved Revolutionary Sweetheart

^^^actually the worst CVB record! Terrible engineering work on that one.

Fakebook came after President, which I thought was an improvement.

god how i wish there was a Metallica album titled Duh

especially if Elektra had forced a change after retailers objected to the working title Fuckin' Duh

reality of my surroundings = fishbone's masterwork

This poll baffles me. Daydream Nation was a minor classic? Even if you despise the album, you gotta dmit it looms largest in their oeuvre (if not in a daydream nation).

Key Lime Pie is CVB's best album

yup, what they said. that's actually one of my favorite albums of ever by anyone.

Don't Tell a Soul is NOT "mostly pretty good."

Camper Van Beethoven - Key Lime Pie 89
De La Soul - De La Soul Is Dead 91
Fishbone - The Reality of My Surroundings 91
The Pixies – Doolittle 89
R.E.M. – Green 88
Sonic Youth – Goo 90
The The - Mind Bomb 89
The Woodentops - Wooden Foot Cops On A Highway 88
XTC – Oranges & Lemons 89

__________________________________

I have always thought all of these albums are badass

Other than Green, which was half-a-clunker, I'd say this is right. Nice to see that Document is considered a minor classic, tho.

easy vote for de la soul is dead

Don't Tell A Soul was a letdown (but it did give the world Talent Show, so . . .). The criminally underrated Replacements disc is All Shook Down.

(xp)

I really, really dislike Daydream Nation (and I realise I'm pretty much on my own here) but I thought both Goo and Dirty were both pretty fine albums.

It's no Bad Moon Rising, nor Confusion is Sex, but Goo has to be the one for me.

Don't Tell a Soul is NOT "mostly pretty good."

yeah its mostly crap. Talent Show excepted.

Don't Tell a Soul has some outrageously funny lyrics

most of the album is an outrage.

I love Don't Tell A Soul but we've had this debate before.

Oranges And Lemons is comfortably XTC's worst hour imo, although there ARE gaps in my knowledge (first two records, Mummer)

the live versions of the Don't Tell a Soul material are infinitely superior to the album versions. Just some really terrible production decisions made on that one.

Oranges And Lemons is comfortably XTC's worst hour imo, although there ARE gaps in my knowledge (first two records, Mummer)

― Zayatte Mondatta (country matters), Friday, April 3, 2009 7:23 PM (2 minutes ago)

yeah see i would give that reward to every album that came after oranges and lemons personally

Al, you don't think Sister - DN or Goo - Dirty is less of a stretch than DN - Goo?

xposts

I loved Goo when I was a kid, and it still contains my favourite SY song--"Disappearer"--but the album as a whole seems really really slight to me nowadays...it's one of those high school albums, like The Bends and Gish, that I just can't hear anymore...

whereas Doolittle pwns...it was just revealed to me, like two days ago, that "Hey" is a searing vision of a humanity bound to the world of flesh and filth...so that.

"yeah its mostly crap. Talent Show I'll Be You excepted."

Who didn't like Doolittle?

Now for my favorite pasttime, "you forgot about..."

Throwing Muses - House Tornado (1988, following up 1986 debut)
They Might Be Giants - Lincoln (1989, following up 1986 debut)
Game Theory - Two Steps From the Middle Ages (1988, following up Lolita Nation from 1987)

"Oranges And Lemons" is my favourite album of 1989, which makes it a very obvius pick for me here. Surely no "letdown" even though it isn't quite as fantastic as "Skylarking". But then, "Skylarking" is in my Top 3 albums of all time.

yeah see i would give that reward to every album that came after oranges and lemons personally

"Nonsuch" is amazing. IMO the second best XTC album ever!

yeah Document kinda blows

Rong (aside from the mostly-insufferable It's The End Of The World As We Know It).

whats good on it? Finest Worksong? Exhuming McCarthy? Disturbance at the Heron House? (I might have repped for this song in posts past, but I just remembered that I was talking abt Welcome to the Occupation)...flaccid and unappealing, Document is reminiscent of the worst of the 80: Springsteen, U2, and Tracy Chapman...uninspiring ego-inflated rock that meant much less than it meant to mean...

Springsteen is a whole different can of worms. I loved Born In The USA, but that's not the normal Springsteen vibe that resonates with me. My two favorite Springsteen discs are Tunnel Of Love and Nebraska, both of which don't seem ego-inflated (indeed, they seem, alternatively, humbled/tortured and sinister/desperate).

What's good on Document? Welcome To The Occupation; Exhuming McCarthy; Disturbance at the Heron House; The One I Love; Fireplace; and King Of Birds.

I'm with you on U2 and Chapman, tho.

I don't find those REM songs flaccid at all. To the contrary, I think they roar in a way REM never had before or since (aside from some of Life's Rich Pagent, I guess). It's one of the few times I loved a group of REM songs after their "early," Southern-Gothic rock period.

that springsteen remark might be off the mark...the whole idea of addressing huge political issues in pop songs in the 80s struck me as very egotistical...perhaps Peter Gabriel's So is more like it?

I like Occupation, and King of Birds, and the Wire cover (and One I Love)..the rest sounds like draggy flavorless funk-pop to these ears...

I've wanted to hear Green for some time now, though...all I know is 'Stand'

Green is the first REM disc I thought was really bland (or "draggy flavorless"). I still think it had a few winners: World Leader Pretend; Turn You Inside Out; I Remember California; and especially the 11th, untitled song. Still, a fairly uninspired disc (especially considering how good they'd been to that point).

De La Soul is Dead. Better than 3 Feet if you ask me.

not too many albums piss me off more than the cheez whiz feel of oranges and lemons

I just realized how many of these are the groups' "jumping to a major" album-- Sonic Youth, REM, Eleventh Dream Day, Dinosaur Jr. Pixies too, I guess.

Green Mind, Steady Diet, Doolittle, and Goo are the first records I heard by any of these bands so they get a pass in that first-record-you-loved kind of way. None is my favorite by any of the bands but I still love them more than I might had I gotten them as follow ups.

De La Soul and Fishbone were the two that I was eagerly anticipating, and I loved both probably a bit more than their predecessors. Both came out within a couple of weeks of each other and became a big part of the soundtrack to my summer after 11th grade.

i think either de la or cvb.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

THE DE LA SOUL ALBUM!

CBV - Our Beloved Revolutionary Sweetheart

^^^actually the worst CVB record! Terrible engineering work on that one.

Well, it's certainly their worst-engineered record. But I wish I could have a thousand more albums with songs, arrangements, playing, etc. as mind-alteringly good as this.

Had to vote KLP as well, just because on principle I have to vote for CVB whenever they come up. Could have voted for at least 75% of these albums, though, except Steady Diet, which still sounds terrible to me every time I return to it thinking "This is by Fugazi, for fuck's sake, you have to be able to find the good in it.

I cain't.

I've never even listened to Key Lime Pie even thought CBV were one of my favorite band of the 80s because I was so disappointed by the useless missed opportunity "matchstick" cover.
I never noticed an engineering problem on Sweetheart vinyl. It isn't like the two preceding it were Abbey Road or something.

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Fishbone cd was so annoying that when I tried to trade it in and no one would take it, I put it in the closet. Eventually I put it back on the shelf and occasionally recall the 3 good songs mixed in the mess.

the main thing i fathom from this poll is that one has to be pretty on the ball/presumptuous to call fugazi's bluff on 'steady diet of nothing' way back when it was released.

Why's that? Plenty of people grumbled that Repeater was a drop in quality from their first EP. I thought it was great, but I was immediately turned off by how noodly-boring Steady Diet was.

Throwing Muses and Game Theory were good suggestions. I could never stand They Might Be Giants. I thought it was pretty widely agreed that ...And Justice sounded weak, thin and brittle compared to their previous two. It would have helped if they'd let the bass in. Glad to see some EDD love. Lots of disagreement here, which is good, hard to guess what will come out on top!

Doolittle is a truly great record, Goo a good one. Amazingly, I have never heard any of the others, though I understand that people speak highly of And Justice For All.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I could never stand They Might Be Giants.

Haha. I used to love that jittery novelty song, Don't Lets Start. Great video, too.

who are the Woodentops? (does anybody know?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Woodentops

I thought that Public Enemy would be on this poll.

lolz was not expecting De La to win this but that's cool

I was. It is.

I didn't realize that 1) Bug is considered a "minor classic" or 2) that people consider Green Mind to be pretty good (outside of "The Wagon", which is still a stone-cold classic.)

I've never even listened to Key Lime Pie even thought CBV were one of my favorite band of the 80s because I was so disappointed by the useless missed opportunity "matchstick" cover.

from the Woodentops' wiki page

Generally well received by critics, the album's sound was characterised by acoustic guitars, but also featured accordion, marimba, strings, and trumpet sounds, showing influences of Suicide.

?!!

Doesn't Paul's Boutique fit this criteria (although it seems more like a late blooming rather than just being let down, I gather).

search the woodentops ep which featured dark and occasionally hyperkinetic percussive stuff. giant was more expansive with kind of a strummy folkpoppy feel at times. i dont remember wooden foot cops at all.

also, ive not heard any woodentops since at least 1990.

If any good comes from this poll, it'll be that someone discovers The Woodentops. I wrote this when I picked up a remaster of their 1986 debut (unknown to some, minor classic to others, stone fucking cold classic for me):

The Woodentops took bits of Suicide, The Talking Heads, XTC, Echo & the Bunnymen and especially the frenetic rhythms of The Feelies, all treated with acoustic folk, twisted with other instrumentation like marimbas, accordian and trumpet. While The Feelies also tackled acoustic guitars on their second album, The Good Earth, The Woodentops still sounded quite different. Their songs had a perfect balance of diverse experimentalism and pop hooks. Morrissey constantly talked them up at the time, which was a brave gesture, considering the strong possibility that Giant more consistently great than The Smiths’ The Queen Is Dead. If it weren’t for Morrissey’s clever lyrics and two untouchable singles from that album, I’d even say Giant crushed it. So why didn’t they become huge? Probably because their magic only lasted through their debut album. They were on Rough Trade, an indie label unable to push a band without help from a string of hit singles like The Smiths had. Columbia did release the album in the U.S., but it didn’t catch on. The 1988 followup, Wooden Foot Cops On The Highway, while actually very good, wasn’t able to measure up to Giant.

“Get It On,” gives a sense of the propulsive energy of much of the album, along with “Love Train,” Hear Me James,” “Shout,” and “Travelling Man.” “Good Thing” is wonderfully original love ballad that made it onto several high school era mix tapes. The album gets better and better, peaking with “Last Time” and “Everything Breaks,” two of their most distinct songs. I desperately don’t want it to end, and the four bonus cuts collected from the Well Well Well EP provides some relief. I also downloaded the out of print singles collection (“Steady Steady” is a heavy dirge about terminal cancer, and one of their most atypical, but powerful songs) and their 1987 live album, Hypno Beat Live (where they play three times as fast! Who needs Slayer?) to extend my buzz.

Turned out they reunited a couple years ago, toured the UK, and are supposedly working on new music.

I got "Giant", never really got into it.

One of those "should have liked them more than I did on paper" things.

I picked it up the cassette while in hs because of a review in Spin or RS and loved it, but had sort of forgotten about it by the end of college, and listened again for the first time while putting together a mix for 20 yr reunion. I feel like I get them more than the first time around.

OK, Fasty, on the strength of your review above (mention the Feelies and I get all hotnbothered) I'm downloading Giant now from eMu.

Neither Fish Nor Flesh owns this thread.

[q] Goo has some of Kim Gordon's best moments, as well as one of Sonic Youth's best songs in "Kool Thing". The furious guitar mantra at the end of that track is astonishing...

― Dan S, Saturday, April 4, 2009 5:19 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

kool thing is not one of sonic youth's best songs...

― jagged-electronically mäandernden underbody (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, April 4, 2009 12:24 PM (4 days ago) Bookmark [q]

Me: Kool Thing is one of Sonic Youth's best songs.

you: Kool Thing is not one of Sonic Youth's best songs.

Probably I'm inviting trouble by even commenting, but I truly love, love, love, these simple assertions of opposing opinions. I don't know why. PS I am old, therefore none of these albums means anything to me in comparison to, say, "White Music," "Soul Mining," oh, never mind (NOT "Nevermind").

Cool poll question; however, one album here sticks out for me and that's Doolittle. I remember the feeling at that time being more along the lines of, "How could they possibly make ANOTHER album this good?" If that album let you down you had some crazy inflated expectations.

Kool Thing might be better than I give it credit, but I usually go under the assumption that in the early 90s the worst SY songs usually got released as singles...clear that b.s. away (along w/ the vox) and Kool Thing actually has a delirial ghoulishness that I find endearing...

Neither Fish Nor Flesh owns this thread.

this is kind of OTM only I really loved Neither Fish Nor Flesh when it came out

It's good ("Billy Don't Fall"), but Symphony or Damn, which can you find cheap in any used record store, is even better.

"I Have Faith In These Desolate Times" A+++++

Wild Card is also fantastic. Poor old arrogant crazy TTD

huh i guess i should give camper van beethovan a chance? dude always kinda bugged me, at least in cracker who was more my era i guess.

I always hated Cracker (who were also more my era) and I just think of CVB being a jokey cover band cause I've only heard their cover of "pictures of matchstick men" and "take the skinheads bowling".

what you haven't heard their jokey cover of Black Flag's "Wasted"? or Ringo's "Photograph"?

Or their hoedown cover of "White Riot?" Or "Interstellar Overdrive?" Or Sonic Youth's "I Love Her All the Time?" Or their track-for-track cover of "Tusk?" Among other awesome CVB covers.

(Well, OK, the reinvented "Tusk" is pretty hit-or-miss, but the other covers the band has done are all awesome).

missed this poll, would've voted for Only Life -- sometimes my fave Feelies record, though they all occasionally hold that title.

Listened to The Woodentops' Giant. First impressions: A little Good Earth-era Feelies, but more Conspiracy-era Jazz Butcher with a bit of Housemartins feel in the vocals. Pretty good; I would probably now have very fond memories of it if I had heard it at the time. Flisten in 2009: only OK, lyrics a bit weak. But def. has the potential to grow on me (or maybe not).

I realized I left out a few more:

Love And Rockets - Earth-Sun-Moon 87
The lack of the heavy buzzsaw sounds of Express lead me to write this album off at the time. Now it sounds pretty inspired compared to their more disappointing self-titled album from '89.

The Church - Starfish 88
Heyday was a big favorite in 1986, but when this came out, it sounded too clean and sterile to me. In retrospect, their singles were some of the prettiest stuff you'd hear on the radio at the time.

Julian Cope - Peggy Suicide 91
I got turned on to 1987's Saint Julian before I even was aware of Teardrop Explodes. Reading his Head-On/Repossessed auto-bio reminded me that he also released the mediocre My Nation Underground in 1988, which I totally was unaware of at the time. I remember checking out bits of Peggy Suicide at the college radio station and being impressed by the concept, but not the songs. Finally got a copy just recently and still growing.

Earth Sun Moon is their best album

Didn't get to vote in this the first time around (I would have gone for Goo, which I actually think is miles better as a brilliant pop album than the unfocused sprawl that was Daydream Nation)...

But Starfish? Come on, most casual listeners would probably say that was the Church's finest hour. And still their biggest commercial success.

Ditto Earth Sun Moon, which was really L&R's breakthrough album. I'm not sure how you're judging this "followups" business here.

Explained upthread, but they were judged at the time with my teenage ears that were expecting something better. And now I'm re-evaluating them a couple decades later.