The Beatles 1970 albums poll

Plastic Ono by miles and miles.

HARD POLL!

All Things Must Pass perhaps.

I know these all have their fans on ILM, but I still follow the "canon" and go for "All Things Must Pass" here. Even though it contains no less than two legal ripoffs, plus I hardly ever play the last two sides, the first four sides are still so strong on fantastic material. Obviously he had a wealth of underrated stuff yet to become released until he went solo.

Plastic Ono Band by a hair over All Things Must Pass, which certainly is fantastic 'til you hit the last few songs.

I had LP3 from a junk shop.

I got the CD set more recently, wasn't struck with it greatly, but enjoyed the jam tracks again. Yep, I'm strange.

Guess i have to vote Let it be, as I don't have the others.

i only have "plastic ono band" and "let it be". of those two plastic ono wins by a landslide. "the long and winding road" totally pollutes "let it be" for me. what a stinker. "across the universe" is one of my top ten beatles songs on the other hand.

That dude's getting his own thread.

All Things Must Pass - no contest for me

plastic ono band, for sure.

i love 'let it be' though, always been my least-listened to beatles album and thus one that's good to put on b/c i haven't heard the songs 1000x (minus maybe 'let it be', tho the album version is better and different than the one you hear on the radio.)

'all things must pass' just seems so monochrome and dreary to me. there just seems to be little variety on it, i don't know. cliched to say it but i wish it was a single album

haven't listened to 'mccartney' enough to say anything about it...

mccartney is a great little record really.
all things must pass is the one i listen to the least.
and the winner, for me, is plastic ono band.

Plastic Ono Band by quite a wide margin.

also (XPOST): waddya mean "sorry ringo no solo album for you this year"? there were actually 2, weren't there? not that i'd fancy voting for them or somethung, but-t-t-t...

^^^yeah what the hell

can we all agree that the worst one here is easily McCartney...? I think the first Plastic Ono Band album is great but its strengths are also in some ways its faults - sure its nakedly emotional and autobiographical, the sound is raw and spare and ragged, there's some great playing... at the same time its a deeply egocentric album, its anchored entirely by the John Lennon "cult of personality" dynamic and in that sense some of the songwriting seems pretty lazy and infantile. All Things Must Pass by comparison is EPIC - there's slight tunes and goofy jokes on it, but the scale and range of songs presented is fantastic, and the overall sound is rich and dense. Kinda nuts that Spector had a hand in both considering how different in approach they are - Harrison's album sounds like its recorded by a whole bunch of people who all love George and want him to succeed and give their best. POB sounds like its recorded by the handful of people who could stand to be around Lennon at the time.

I've read that Spector actually had very little to do with Plastic Ono Band and only present at a few of the sessions.

Plastic Ono Band, but weren't there two of those that year??

I believe you're thinking of Yoko Ono and the Plastic Ono Band which came out in 1971.

never knew that!
http://www.discogs.com/Yoko-Ono--Plastic-Ono-Band-Yoko-Ono-Plastic-Ono-Band/release/460472

what's yoko's like?
xpost

Wiki says Yoko's Plastic Ono Band came out Dec 11, 1970; amazon and the discogs link above both say 1970, too. (But yeah, that's what I was talking about. So which one are we voting for, again?)

FYI - Yoko wasn't in the Beatles chuck.

Yoko's album is great. Krautrock grooves, some quiet plinky piano songs, shrieking.

^You had me sold until "shrieking."

I'm going Let it Be. "The Long and Winding Road" notwithstanding (easily rock-bottom Beatles I never have to hear again), there's a lotta good stuff on it.

I still love POB but its appeal has diminished for me over time, for all the reasons Shakey OTM Collier outlined. I've never gone gaga for ATMP the way everyone else has; despite a few outstanding cuts it seems turgid and samey, even discounting the neverending "bonus material." And I've never heard McCartney, nor have I ever heard a persuasive argument why I should bother doing so.

mccartney has my favorite solo paul song, "every night." the rest is pretty nice too.

Harrison's album sounds like its recorded by a whole bunch of people who all love George and want him to succeed and give their best. POB sounds like its recorded by the handful of people who could stand to be around Lennon at the time.

this is beautifully said. pob is brilliant for what it is, but i hardly ever feel like listening to it.

^You had me sold until "shrieking."

no its great, really!! The first track is called "Why" and is a krautrock groove with Yoko wailing "why?" over and over. The second track is called "Why Not?" and... well you get the idea.

plus a collab with Ornette Coleman!

(which is a little underwhelming but still interesting - Ornette Coleman playing with former Beatles, you gotta give Yoko credit for a genius move like that)

can we all agree that the worst one here is easily McCartney...?

McCartney isn't really that bad per se (apart from some atrocious drumming in one or two spots) it's just kind of slight. There's a bunch of half-formed ideas on it and then the obligatory big-pop moment of "Maybe I'm Amazed", its very slapdash (its follow-up, Ram, is exponentially better). Compared to the grandiosity of ATMP and the soul-shredding of POB McCartney doesn't really have much to offer in terms of a fully realized, well-executed vision.

I'm almost tempted to vote Let it Be bcz of "two of Us" which is easily one of the best songs that any of these here Beatles ever participated in...

Plastic Ono Band, although i don't whip these albums out often. I can't stand George's voice for more than four songs.

ATMP, for the reasons Shakey mentioned upthread.

i really like McCartney, like, a lot; it's one of my favorite records. all of the solo albums are better than Let it Be. POB wins though.

Voted for Plastic Ono Band the Yoko Ono version.

wait forgot about "Two Of Us". shit, its too late...

yea 'two of us' is great, i've always liked 'dig a pony' a lot too

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

McCartney is a very pleasant listen, and sustains a mood much more coherently than any of the others. But it doesn't have the songs (with a few obvious exceptions) and it's a really odd thing to release as one's self-titled debut. It would make a great deal more sense if this were called Ram and Ram were McCartney but so it goes. It's funny how pristine both albums sound, though - the whole down-home Polaroid ambience that surrounds both is a matter of songs, content, and visuals but the recordings are actually very very clean (compared to, say, Wild Life or for that matter Plastic Ono Band.)

I admire POB more than I actually enjoy listening to it...but here obviously enjoyment isn't so much the point. The other three are pretty firmly within the "collection of good songs" model, obviously with other symbolism attached having to do with liberation or moving on from the 60s or whatever, but POB is eleven tracks of challops and therapy that seem to accidentally turn into really great songs from time to time, ie "Mother" and "I Found Out" and... well, that's about it. Okay, "Well Well Well" is good too. I dunno. I just don't end up wanting to put this on the turntable very often.

All Things Must Pass is pretty damn good but it's been years since I sat down and listened to the whole thing. I can definitely count way more highs on this thing than on any of the other albums and god does it sound great, on every track. I mean, not even the standouts or intended singles on any of the other records sound anything close to as good as "Awaiting On You All" for example. This is probably the best album here but I feel weird voting for something where off the top of my head I can only name like five or six songs. So... I vote for Let It Be, which, I mean, whatever its faults, it's the fucking Beatles. At WORST it's the best band in history moonlighting as a kind of uninspired garage band. I would buy six more albums like that if they'd made them!

You need to put POB on the turntable more often. "God" has one of the most impressive vocals John ever recorded. "Hold On" is a perfect little song. "Look at Me" is a reminder that no one on Earth really knows what the fuck they're doing. "Well Well Well" and "I Found Out" may be my least favorite tracks, actually (not counting "Power to the People", of course)!

"Power to the People" isn't on the album though...?

Yeah, I probably sell POB sort of short here, I haven't really articulated why/how I'm lukewarm on it. It's not bad, really.

It's on the CD reissue of it, which is how I heard POB the first million times, so I got used to getting up early to turn the CD off after "My Mummy's Dead".

Probably the worst/"least appropriate" extra track ever.

Yeah, what the hell? Makes more sense to include it on Some Time in NYC.

I was having trouble deciding when I thought we were talking about Yoko's Plastic Ono Band. Once I realized that, I went Let It Be. Definitely have a fondness for all of these... though John's probably the least, strangely enough.

I love All Things Must Pass but the 'jam' stuff really lets it down. Got to go with Plastic Ono Band. All four of these are fascinating records, even if they're not all great listens.

I choose just to skip the "jam" stuff, and still have four sides full of great songs. "Plastic Ono Band" has "Love" and that's it.

Let It Be is minor Beatles, but minor Beatles is still better than 90% of most everything else. I just wish they had done more things like the guerrilla rooftop concert. It's one of the few times in the movie they look like they actually still enjoy playing together.

I vote for Ringo.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

ILM in agreeing

exactly

for disco you have to settle for a couple of basslines that almost get there, but there is easily a fantastic wings double album to be compiled by someone (who says fuck chronology). you have to include some stuff like mumbo or bip bop for the true white album effect

band on the run is very good but it feels a bit beatles lite. the call and response with his john and george impressions on the title track is a little much. john said nice things about it so I guess it didn't bother him

my brave face is a great song in theory but the arrangement has always bothered me enough that I've avoided flowers in the dirt entirely - I'll give it another shot

I like Flowers in the Dirt, but it also feels like the moment he transitions into dignified elder statesman mode, maybe because of the negative response to Press to Play, and I miss the oddness that was a feature of the earlier solo material

xp I guess a wings double album does exist in the form of wingspan - not a bad comp which introduced me to some of the songs I've mentioned but the sequencing is odd as are some of the inclusions and omissions - some day I'll fuck around with it a bit

mccartney did want to release red rose speedway as a double album originally but emi (probably correctly) refused to let him

I love the three Flowers in the Dirt singles: "My Brave Face," "Figure of Eight," "This One." The last one faffs around for a bit, but that chorus! The middle eight!

I'm also fond of "We Got Married" even when it strains to match 1984's superior "No More Lonely Nights":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8igkHOn1Dk

Nothing will transport me back to being 11 years old like the intro to "Silly Love Songs."

the singles on Flowers in the Dirt are good, album itself would benefit from some serious editing (too long) and the production is a little too of-its-time in places. the demos with costello are great of course

The back half of Flowers is a disaster, yeah.

Ou est le soleil is the worst

I still prefer the album ending with "Our Est Le Soleil," as on the CD and cassette releases, to the endless toil of "Motor of Love" on the LP. It's really that one and "How Many People" that siphon all the gas out of the engine.

Some years back on MACCA SOLO ALBUMS! I decided that my quick fix for the rexord would be to lean into more of a roots-rock or new-country sound. I'm not sure that really actually would save the weaker songs, but idk, I just feel like it'd be a comfortable fit for him. The squeaky-clean airlocked Adult Pop ambience isn't unbearable but I don't think it's doing the material any favors.

I love how he never figured out how to arrange "Figure of Eight" and kept releasing remixes and re-imagined live versions.

Still prefer the studio version.

to his credit McCartney has mostly avoided the 'remix and reissue old album' temptation (he did remix Tug of War but it very closely matched the original mix so was kind of pointless; he is doing a 'pre-mix/underdub' release of band on the run for the 50th anniversary) but Flowers was an album that would have maybe benefited from a remix.

Have we forgotten Let It Be: Naked?

yes

It's got the best mix of "Two of Us"!

sure probably and I remember the TLAWR being quite nice instead of sufferable but they still played it way too safe

where's "fancy me chances", "freak out" (ft. yoko), "half a pound of greasepaint", "strawberry fields" (sad piano version), "across the universe" (bored john and paul version)? why do they keep running away from what this album should have been?

*insufferable

it doesn't even have "can you dig it" ft heather (not to be confused with "dig it" which they also cut)

Ay, ay ay, ay ay . . . Rice a Roni

I mean McCartney has avoided remixing his solo albums not the beatles stuff, which has been endlessly remixed at this point

maybe that's not what you meant, now that I re-read it

ATMP is very good but could be so much better without spector's wall of bullshit

― Left

when it comes to music, Classic Rock is where I come from, which means I run a lot into the most bonkers (I don't mean this negatively) Beatles nuts

most ordinary people, when i talk to them about the beatles they take me for a superfan, but i know _nothing_ compared to these people. i had a friend whose entire life was centered on the beatles and pink floyd. he was one of those guys. older than the rest of us. kind of felt about himself then the way i think about being around other trans people now. at the time i didn't understand why he hid how old he was, why he was ashamed of it. it didn't matter to us how old he was. i feel like i understand better now.

i have another friend who's kind of like that now, but we don't talk about it much, he just sometimes makes fun of people on sh.tv in a way that reveals his deep well of not just knowledge, but _understanding_ of the beatles. mostly we talk about being queer. i've learned a lot from him. centering your life around being queer is a much better idea than centering your life around the beatles.

anyway, the thing about these guys is that... when you know everything about the beatles, when your entire life is the beatles, and some new technology comes out, they know what to do with it: make beatles albums better

so right now i'm listening to an AI-assisted remix of "all things must pass" that tones down the spectorizations. i have a fondness for "wall of sound" - kind of the hyperpop of the '60s, you ask me - but like hyperpop, it makes me ears tired.

ftr I do think john probably did watch sesame street while high in bed with yoko

― Left

my favorite nerd trivia about john lennon is his obsession with 1970s cable television. lennon's diaries are probably one of the best primary sources we have on manhattan cable in the '70s. yeah, he wrote some ok songs, but his _real_ contribution to the world was his firsthand observations of early cable television!

Going off on a tangent, but years ago, an older relative told me when he watched Sesame Street as a kid, Snuffleupagus was indeed "imaginary" - only Big Bird ever saw him - which was news to me. Then about five years ago, I found out that the reason why they made Snuffleupagus a tangible, physical character was because they were concerned that making everyone else doubt his existence would give children the wrong idea, as in no one, especially grown-ups, would believe them if they had something they needed to say, like someone doing something horrible or inappropriate to them. Startling to hear but made complete sense.

― birdistheword

do _not_ get me started on early sesame street, it's a special interest of mine. joan ganz cooney was brilliant and the show was pedagogically way ahead of its time. and they were all communists. mr. hooper? lifelong actor. you know why you ever saw him on anything else? the blacklist.

the answer to this is still POB which invents post punk and has some of Johns best shit

― kurt schwitterz

the problem i have with john's solo work is it pales in comparison to yoko's work of the era. i kind of think of him as a second banana to yoko, whose work so far outshines the '70s beatles solo work as to make it an unfair comparison.

Streisand also did “Love” on the same album. She must’ve liked that POB album. The only McCartney song she ever did afaik is “Honey Pie.” She recorded “Isn’t It a Pity” but not the Harrison song, the one written by the Gershwins.

― Josefa

best "love" is robert wyatt's. best "isn't it a pity" is fuckin' _emergency ward_.

I acknowledge POB’s greatness while never wanting to hear it again. Too stark, too much pain. I have problems of my own, why do I want to listen to someone else’s etc

― lethbridge-pfunkboy (hardcore dilettante)

to help you better understand those problems of your own! half of the way i understand myself is '70s music. a lot of people are carrying around inner pain that's hard for us to recognize, let alone express. i never got that by listening to john's pacific ocean blue album, but i've gotten it from lots of other music.

I’ve Got My Own Primal Scream Therapy Album To Do

― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes)

screamadelica troublegum?

to those of you out there reading this who have done a "ringo deep dive", i want to say hello to you and identify myself as one of those people who really had a bad reaction

― z_tbd

without _goodnight vienna_, we wouldn't have the script to _our show for ringo starr_ by Nemona Lethbridge and Vera Hunt.

This is not exactly going to be a hot take, but having been a Beatles fan for many years I recently set about exploring McCartney's solo discography for the first time and was shocked to discover how poor it is. With the exception of the Band on the Run album, there is virtually nothing there of any consequence. How on earth did someone who wrote or co-wrote some of the greatest songs of all time between 1962 and 1970 so comprehensively lose his inspiration?

― lord of the rongs (anagram)

"the ballad of john and yoko" hit #1 and he realized that he would never have to bother working at anything again. also i feel like at some point marijuana quit "enhancing his creativity".

The conventional wisdom dictated by 70s rock critics was more or less correct

― lord of the rongs (anagram), Wednesday, December 20, 2023 4:25 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

it was bullshit and much of it was in misogyny and the weird complex rock dudes have always had about mccartney's popularity with women

I am baffled by these takes I've heard all my life which in retrospect come off as an elaborate projection-fantasy set in motion by the jealous guy and faithfully repeated by his disciples for decades

― Left

my main beef with 70s rock critics is that they all hated zep, because zep was misogynist meathead music, which is true and also jimmy page should probably be in prison with bobby beausoleil but also zep rules. just like bobby beausoleil's music rules.

70s mccartney is better than "fit me in" by key.

You want to talk about misogyny? Lennon was married to Yoko Ono.

― Nine Inch Males (Tom D.)

i know lennon did a lot of misogynist things, but i don't think marrying yoko was one of them.

he’s very fussy about his mum

― The Glittering Worldbuilders (James Redd and the Blecchs)

i have a hard time wrapping my head around all the shit lennon gets for loving his mum

it doesn't even have "can you dig it" ft heather (not to be confused with "dig it" which they also cut)

― Left

"can you dig it" not a patch on "long title: do i have to do this all over again" imo

I would argue that Band on the Run mostly works because he wanted a hit record

He definitely still wanted hits, but I got the impression he was trying for more than a hit. Hit singles weren't a problem, he was getting plenty, but I got the impression it was really starting to bother him how a lot of people beyond the critics weren't really embracing Wings, at least to the extent he had hoped for, from his own label successfully pushing back on a double LP to the way McCullough and Seiwell left Wings (clearly dissatisfied with the band) to the other Beatles expressing their disappointment with his music (and not necessarily in a mean way either - sometimes with bewilderment). He's pretty much suggested this too, but it really seemed like he had something to prove, and I think that's one reason he brought back Geoff Emerick.

What do people think of Macca's 1989 album, "Flowers in the Dirt"? I was surprised at how good it was when I checked it out. 'Figure of Eight' in particular.

I never liked it, not even "Figure of Eight" (which sounds to me like it was done on autopilot), but I thought the "super deluxe" edition was a revelation. That's an example of what I had in mind - Elvis made it clear he wanted Paul to make a record without worrying about whether it'll be a hit, and to be clear Elvis liked Wings - he defended them in his first interviews in the '70s. Eventually he realized it wasn't going to work out when Paul said he wanted to record a song like the Human League's latest record, but those acoustic demos they recorded together in 1987 are really good, some of my favorite music from McCartney. They're a throwback to the Everly Brothers, but I don't think they would sound too out of place on Flaming Pie ten years later.

mccartney did want to release red rose speedway as a double album originally but emi (probably correctly) refused to let him

I don't like that album, but I actually think making it a double would've been an improvement. "The Mess" would've easily been my favorite track and that was lost. Everything else feels pretty insubstantial on their own, but amassed together into a 77 minute program, it works better. A lot of McCartney's suites work in similar fashion (including the one on Abbey Road) where you have a lot of undeveloped fragments that wouldn't have made much of an impression on their own, but they do when you weave them all together. It's not the same as a suite, but the cumulative effect of a double LP would have been comparable where you have this mountain of tuneful and catchy bits that he's just tossing off as if they came that easily. The context really makes a difference.

i know lennon did a lot of misogynist things, but i don't think marrying yoko was one of them.

You've misunderstood the context of the quote, which was in reply to Left's statement that McCartney's reputation suffered in comparison to Lennon's among rock critics in the 70s due to misogyny. I know what he was getting at but ..

https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2012/4-6/rLt36nGSxY-2.png

He definitely still wanted hits, but I got the impression he was trying for more than a hit. Hit singles weren't a problem, he was getting plenty, but I got the impression it was really starting to bother him how a lot of people beyond the critics weren't really embracing Wings, at least to the extent he had hoped for, from his own label successfully pushing back on a double LP to the way McCullough and Seiwell left Wings (clearly dissatisfied with the band) to the other Beatles expressing their disappointment with his music (and not necessarily in a mean way either - sometimes with bewilderment).

Sure. I've read interviews where he expressed genuine hurt that Ram -- which he also worked on meticulously -- got slagged. Tastes change, though, and Ram is probably held in as much or higher esteem as BOTR.

I am a fan of the Spector sound on ATMP and dislike the new mix. I think when you try to disassemble the wall of sound and highlight everything in it, you end up with clutter.

but amassed together into a 77 minute program, it works better. A lot of McCartney's suites work in similar fashion (including the one on Abbey Road) where you have a lot of undeveloped fragments that wouldn't have made much of an impression on their own, but they do when you weave them all together.

I kind of agree and still wouldn't mind hearing this: https://www.discogs.com/release/12906615-Paul-McCartney-And-Wings-Red-Rose-Speedway-Double-Album-

McCartney II as a double album would have had a similar effect!

i think they went back to the old mix of ATMP with the most recent issue actually.

Oh I'm wrong, it's just another remix

Just listened to a mix of the songs from these solo albums. "Junk", "Remember" and "Beware of Darkness" are three very different expressions of compassion that I found unexpectedly moving in that context.

I am a fan of the Spector sound on ATMP and dislike the new mix. I think when you try to disassemble the wall of sound and highlight everything in it, you end up with clutter.

Yeah, same here. I know Harrison was critical of the production in retrospect, so it was no surprise that they eventually remixed it (only that he didn't try it himself before he died), but given the way Spector works, I'm not sure a remix was ever going to sound great. I know Harrison's mentioned that he kind of wanted an album that sounded like "The Band," so it would have been interesting if a version like that had been done at the time, but it would need to be arranged and recorded that way. They can strip out the echo in Spector's mix, but he's still piling all these people into the same room and arranging it so that their parts are on top of each other.

FWIW, I haven't listened to it since it came out, but I thought the deluxe four-cD edition of Pure McCartney was surprisingly a great listen. The hits I don't like are on there, but it was highly entertaining to hear something that felt representative of his entire solo career, whiplashing between the highs and lows and the sublime and the ridiculous over and over again. I would've liked to hear it all chronologically, just to trace how he changed with the times, and there's probably a handful of stuff I would've liked on there, but that felt like the best way to dive into his post-Beatles work rather than going through album by album - one big, well-curated box set.

Having listened to everything up to Back to the Egg, I think that tastes are going to vary so much between listeners that any really satisfying collection is going to have to be trawled by each individual. For example, I wouldn't want to do without "Little Lamb Dragonfly", which isn't compiled anywhere. I agree that Wingspan and Pure McCartney, even Wings Greatest are very worthy compilations that never get bogged down in too much of one kind of thing.

I don't like the mastering, but selection-wise I thought Wingspan was a pretty great compilation - nearly every great cut and nearly every hit as well.

I don't like the mastering, but selection-wise I thought Wingspan was a pretty great compilation - nearly every great cut and nearly every hit as well.

― birdistheword

i'm absolutely not interested in the hits... i'd love a good playlist that's just mccartney solo deep cuts. generally i'd say "the weirder the better" but this is the guy who did "you know my name (look up the number)", so that's absolutely not true in macca's case

you know john lennon was in a band before the plastic ono band

One of the great CD-Rs a buddy burned in my lifetime -- circa 2001 -- was of deep Wings/Paul cuts.

I mean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w40MUrFq3xM

I just picked up Wings Greatest on vinyl; yeah, it's short but it's also to the point and totally devoid of filler or skippable tracks.

generally i'd say "the weirder the better" but this is the guy who did "you know my name (look up the number)", so that's absolutely not true in macca's case

that is honestly one of the greatest late period beatles songs

also, I think, a truly collaborative exercise between him and lennon

I would like to remind ILM that I've been promoting Press to Play since 2005.

Alfred, whenever I flip past that album in a bin I think of you.

I mean

― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

yeah that's the shit, god this sounds like kit watkins' "labyrinth". never heard it before. seriously i've heard nearly none mccartney. "sunshine sometime", i know that one. that's a good one.

the thing about these guys is that... when you know everything about the beatles, when your entire life is the beatles, and some new technology comes out, they know what to do with it: make beatles albums better