Most Horribly Rong One Star Rating from the 1982 Rolling Stone Record Guide, Part 1

whoa

is that all of the one stars or just the ones that seemed rong

fuck this magazine and all who have written for it

space ritual

(because everyone will pimp 4 sab)

Glen Campbell: Gentle On My Mind

It's got Mary In The Morning, Just Another Man, Bowling Green and of course the immortal title track.

it is weird -- did Ozzy kill one of Jann's children or something?

devo never many anything other that totally brilliant music

(though i will say alabama kinda blows)

fuck this magazine

(though i will say alabama kinda blows)

Rong!

How do you decide which one of the Black Sabbath or Hawkwind or Judas Priest ratings are the dumbest?

hit yourself on the head with a hammer

space ritual is a double album

and then go with yr feelings

It's not weird at all. Pretty much just along the lines of most other rock-crit at the time. (Though some crits liked Devo a lot more, and a couple guys at Creem tolerated Sabbath.) Ratings from the even more entertaining first edition (where AC/DC get all zero-stars, rather than mostly twos and a four) would make for an even better list. (Also, Marsh and Tucker both had their moments, fwiw -- Marsh liked a lot of disco, actually, just not all of it. And Tucker was less anti-country than almost any other critic, at least later in the '80s.)

Anyway, I was playing Atomic Rooster yesterday (a best-of double CD, though, not that particular album.) What funky dudes; I'm voting for them.

Not entirely convinced Alabama and Crosby didn't deserve 1-star ratings now and then, btw; not sure about those albums. And never heard that second Adverts one -- they give the debut four stars (when it deserved five, but whatever), and guess I just believed them when they called Cast of Thousands a major falloff.

devo never many anything other that totally brilliant music

― goole, Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:58 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

whoa there buckaroonie

god Rolling Stone is horrible

Journey, "Escape"

"Don't Stop Believin'" – 4:10
"Stone in Love" – 4:25
"Who's Crying Now" – 5:01 †
"Keep on Runnin'" – 3:39
"Still They Ride" – 3:49
"Escape" – 5:16
"Lay It Down" – 4:13
"Dead or Alive" – 3:20
"Mother, Father" – 5:28 ‡
"Open Arms" – 3:18 †
"La Raza del Sol" - 3:26 †

That's like 4 or 5 absolute stone-cold arena rock classics in a row to open the album. Hell, just 1-2 alone disqualify it from a 1-star rating.

Also would vote Bay City Rollers just because.

The Chambers Brothers album kind of sticks out like a sore thumb.

The Gap Band- II
The Gap Band- III

Seriously. Fuck that.

Hawkwind vs. Black Sabbath vs. Devo.

Those are the most egregious of all.

That's like being the guy who not only says he doesn't like the Beatles, not just that they suck, but repeatedly tries to make the case that they are the worst band of all time. I mean, c'mon.

i pity the person who is so dead inside they can't have their spirits lifted by "stone in love"

I remember Marquee Moon getting panned in that book, too.

The Gap Band- II
The Gap Band- III

Seriously. Fuck that.

^^

plus, yeah, devo, journey, hawkwind, everything else

Given the guides descriptions of the star ratings--where one star means the record is so bad that the artists' technical abilities are called into question--then I can't really see how they justified any of these ratings, because obv. Sabbath and Priest knew how to play their instruments. If they objected to them on moral grounds or some ineffable reason they should have given them zero stars (like Ebert did with Blue Velvet) or two stars (which so so many other great records ended up with) and just leave it at blah.

Bay City Rollers is the wrongest-headed 1-star here - their "Greatest Hits" is just plain nice bubblegum. A lot of these other records I love but could totally see somebody making the case that they suck. But if you can't get down with the Bay City Rollers, you are just bein' a dick.

(like Ebert did with Blue Velvet)

haha waht

I'm glad someone stuck up for the Bay City Rollers cuz my reaction was I'm pretty sure that that one and Black Oak Arkansas' Greatest Hits contain some of their actual hits in which case if you hate those records you are basically just a sourpuss asshole

xpost googling now

"I remember Marquee Moon getting panned in that book, too."

Yeah but that's kind of justified.

Ehh, looks like Ebert gave it one star-- asshole.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19860919/REVIEWS/609190301/1023

I think Ebert's argument has some merit. It's not like he was just like "oh shit this movie is meanspirited" and one-starred it.

Yeah, but he should have zero starred it, to take it out of the realm of thumbs up/down.

its weird to me that Ebert misses that the hokey 50s smalltown Americana stuff is basically just as creepy as the S&M Rossellini/Hopper stuff

for another thread perhaps

david lynch isnt copping out though -- what ebert describes is a stylistic choice. i totally understand how it wouldve been easier to make that call in 86 or whatever, but by now, this choice that ebert describes finding distasteful is basically LYNCHIAN STORYTELLING or whatever u wanna call it

He gave it a thumbs down on the show though. What was he supposed to do there? Scissors?

a tiny saddo face?

More Ebert on Blue Velvet:

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19861002/PEOPLE/41216001/1023

I think Ebert's argument has some merit. It's not like he was just like "oh shit this movie is meanspirited" and one-starred it.

― Alex in SF, Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:28 PM (9 minutes ago)

iirc he eventually eased up on the movie after learning why isabella rossi (sp?? been a while since i've seen it) had that nude scene

isabela rossi

He did? I thought he said her book confirmed what he'd been saying all along.

Your powers of recollection are amazing.

To kevin k.

Ok...Rainbow Rising is at least like...fifty-nine stars...at least

I figure Sabs/Devo/priest/Hawkwind will be well-defended here so I voted for Odessa

this is gonna be like where everybody forgot to vote for bart

The book did guide me to Second Edition/Metal Box tho'. So yeah. The were up on reggae, which was maybe part of why they dug that.

All of the reggae entries — with the exception of The Harder They Come in the soundtracks section — were by one Randall Grass, who seemed to know his stuff.

agreed, 5 stars for Black Uhuru's "Red" iirc

Marsh actually suggested something similar in his RS 1983 entry, that the right compilation could make the Doors look decent ("forgetting that stuff like 'The End' ever existed, except as a mistaken plunge into pomposity").

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat)

if the doors hadn't written "the end", nico couldn't have done her version. check and mate, marsh.

When PIL released 'Death Disco' (aka 'Swan Lake') ahead of Metal Box, it was widely assumed that this was an anti-disco tune - death TO disco. Rotten had to point out that PIL were definitely pro-disco, so perhaps that softened old Disco Dave up.

I don't know who assumed that. There's a disco tune on the first album!

Perhaps the 'widely' is overstating it, but Danny Baker mentions it here in a long piece about PIL

The new Public Image single will be 'Death Disco', and not, as somewhat hopefully reported in another paper, 'Death To Disco'. In fact Wobble believes disco music to be the closest sound to what PIL are doing. Certainly, and believe me, I'd have no bones about stating otherwise were it the case, 'Death Disco' has one of the most powerful backlines to be heard this side of Chic. It fair knifes along, with John howling "See it through my eeyyyyyeeessss" over the whole ferocious affair.

https://www.fodderstompf.com/ARCHIVES/INTERVIEWS/nme79.html

Christgau was genuinely scared of Satanism and the occult, read his review of Ed Sanders' sensationalist Manson book The Family:

― Halfway there but for you

hey xgau, satan respects pronouns

― Kate (rushomancy)

like i wanna be fair xgau is right that the occult has power that can be dangerous if not handled carefully but sabbath were never going to do any harm to any of them, all cishet men know how to do with the occult is use it as an excuse to get super goddamn fucked up and high. that's why bowie's occultism was always so much more dangerous than sabbath's, because he possessed queer energy in addition to consuming fucking mountains of cocaine.

or strengthened by consuming mountains of cocaine!

Sabbath were Xtians who liked weird stuff and drugs

Was Sabbath generally seen as campy back in the day? (Not in a bad way - only in the sense that their shtick wasn't considered dangerous, just fun or at least amusing.) Granted this was 30+ years later when he cleaned up and mellowed out, but I was actually introduced to Sabbath/Ozzy by 9/11 of all things. It was Conan O'Brien's first show or first week back, and this sketch had the premise of Conan bringing Ozzy into the office to lift morale. This may have inspired the reality show that later aired on MTV, but Ozzy came off as innocuous - a feel-good and amusing presence.

It was actually a few weeks after 9/11. Here it is:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9h60v

xgau is right that the occult has power that can be dangerous if not handled carefully

This is also why he was so flustered about Funkadelic quoting the Process Church on a couple of their records; the Sanders book made some vague accusations of human sacrifice against the group.

xxp speaking as someone who had just turned 14 when Blizzard Of Ozz came out (my intro to the band was the We Sold Our Souls comp after much radio listening), part of the appeal has always been the 50/50 mix of campy and scary, which can be shifted as per the subjective feelings of the listener, which accounts for their mass appeal in part

idk if the Process ever sacrificed anyone, but they sure were a fucked up cult which Clinton has since disavowed iirc?

I mean my favorite thing to do is sing "my name is Lucifer please take my hand"

So sleeve otm

\M/

all cishet men know how to do with the occult is use it as an excuse to get super goddamn fucked up and high. that's why bowie's occultism was always so much more dangerous than sabbath's, because he possessed queer energy in addition to consuming fucking mountains of cocaine.

ime neurodivergence has been a better indicator than queer energy of, uh, talents related to the occult in both women and men.

ikwym tho- e.g. Terence McKenna

por que no los dos?

por que no los dos?

― thinkmanship (sleeve)

i mean yeah given that i self-identify as a chaos lesbian because "disaster lesbian" makes it look like i have my shit together more than i actually do, my sample is biased, but the people i know are just part of that whole constellation, queer, neurodiverse, into occult shit, anarchist and/or communist, likes drugs, is really into synthesizers, you know, the whole thing

sounds like a fun gang <3

All of the reggae entries — with the exception of The Harder They Come in the soundtracks section — were by one Randall Grass, who seemed to know his stuff.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, August 18, 2022 4:52 PM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

agreed, 5 stars for Black Uhuru's "Red" iirc

― thinkmanship (sleeve),

I never took stars seriously, or xgau's letters either, just went by the text. A good reviewer can describe the review object and/or their own gut & head response to it well enough, that the reader can get a fair idea of whether they might like it or not: "Well enough" doesn't have to be any great piece of writing: if you already love something that xgau despises---and denounces, or just dismisses---then you can take his judgement on such music in a negative, Bizarro World way next time (and I've known people who do just that, on a regular basis). Lucky me, my tastes happened to coincide with his, more or less, for a long time, but I'm just using him as an example. I don't check reviews so much now.

xgau!

Paranoid [Warner Bros., 1970]
They do take heavy to undreamt-of extremes, and I suppose I could enjoy them as camp, like a horror movie--the title cut is definitely screamworthy. After all, their audience can't take that Lucifer bit seriously, right? Well, depends on what you mean by serious. Personally, I've always suspected that horror movies catharsized stuff I was too rational to care about in the first place. C-

Another one he got me to check out:

Master of Puppets [Elektra, 1986]
I feel at a generational disadvantage with this music not because my weary bones can't take its power and speed but because I was born too soon to have my dendrites rerouted by progressive radio.

This band's momentum can be pretty impressive, and as with a lot of fast metal (as well as some sludge) they seem to have acceptable political motivations--antiwar, anticonformity, even anticoke, fine. But the revolutionary heroes I envisage aren't male chauvinists too inexperienced to know better

they don't have hair like Samson and pecs like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

(Although I was already inclined to take a chance on them because of the hype this album was getting: hail and farewell, Cliff Burton.)

CANNOT KILL THE FAMILY

P sure by "progressive radio" he means the kinds of album-oriented rock radio stations that were regularly playing Zep, Floyd, Queen
and Tull alongside Sabbath and Purple. His point is that it's not too fast or heavy for him but too proggy and that's something that probably makes more sense to who was young enough to have grown up listening to all these bands that Xgau was already a cynical rock critic for.

This is also why he was so flustered about Funkadelic quoting the Process Church on a couple of their records; the Sanders book made some vague accusations of human sacrifice against the group.

... the Process Church, not Funkadelic, in case of confusion.

*to someone who was young

Re Xgau on Master of Puppets obv

sounds like a fun gang <3

― The 25 Best Songs Ever Ranked In Order (Deflatormouse)

it is but it's also the sort of life where it's a lot of work to stay healthy, we're all pretty fucked up and are trying to be less so

His point is that it's not too fast or heavy for him but too proggy I thought he might mean that, but made no sense to me, unless he found Cliff Burton's bass to be prog (proggy=prog?)(prog to me meant none of the bands you mention either)

Anyway, like I said, his prob, not mine, but at least he laid it out well enough, described some of their strong points well enough, that I felt and was proved right in going against his grade, so thanxgau

How's the original edition of The Rolling Stone Illustrated History of Rock & Roll? I was under the impression the entries written for that are pretty great. (I think the later edition was heavily re-done - not just updated, it replaced entries with new writing.)

Did they? I had a 1980-ish copy, and also whatever the current one was in 2004 (used as an elective class textbook) and it was kinda surprising how many essays were carried over, or at least had brief extensions.

I do think those are the sorts of bands he means, dow, that Kirk Hammett might have been hearing on rock station growing up in the 70s; maybe "album-oriented rock radio" would have been more accurate. It's clear enough to me what he's referring to - eight-minute compositions with multiple sections and bombastic dynamic contrasts, pseudo-classical instrumental passages (e.g. in the intro to "Battery" or the softer part of the title track, the Bach-inspired intro to "Damage Inc"), the (relative to a lot of things Xgau likes) emphasis on virtuosity, even e.g. the twinned guitar leads in "Battery".

that's the way I read it too. it's not 'prog' as in the traditional sense, drawing on classical, jazz, and other genres in an experimental style, but rather denser, more sophisticated arrangements within the existing metal framework.

Jesus christ, you guys! You have an opportunity to complain about Jann Wenner and Marsh at an extended length, and you end up fucking talking about Xgau? What the fuck is wrong with you?

1, I live near Marsh, in fancy-ass CT, which I assume is due to Barbara carr's earnings. I have seen him at various restaurants, all of which are at odds with his leftist/populist posturing, and all of which found him behaving in a Falstaffian manner.

but last spring I saw him at a lunch spot with what could only be a home health aide and —I guess it had to be Carr's grandson from another relationship? But what was unquestionable to me being around him at that time, and certainly compared to the dozen times I was around him since 1990, was Marsh's diminished comportment: I have heard from others that the reason they did that tribute to Dave Marsh thing via Zoom last year was down to his faltering cognition. It would seem to me, observing the kind of timid, needing his hand to be held behavior that was in effect last spring, that that tribute was intended to pat him on the head and remind him of his significance, after decades of him excoriating artists who had variously failed to live up to whatever standard he was enforcing at the time.

2. I have never understood the intrinsic appeal of Jann Wenner, having been around and being friends with people who worked for him: He seems to be kind of stupid, or at least irredeemably spoiled, long ago having squandered any talent or skill he might have had… If Mick Jagger or Bono consents to spend time with this guy, is it transparently that they are using him? Is his sucking up so gratifying that they continue to be friends with him over decades?

I’ve never heard anything positive about Wenner, so I’m not sure he is meant to have intrinsic appeal…?

I liked early 70s Marsh, especially when he actually got me to buy These Foolish Things and The Divine Miss M.

I don't mind Dave Marsh because growing up my local meteorologist's name was Dave Marsh and he was nice.

One of the first music books I ever bought was Marsh's The Book of Rock Lists, and I think it was a healthy experience to be challenged by someone whose taste differed so much from mine (and also, more conventionally, who recommended a lot of music I didn't yet know).

Marsh could be funny (like writing about a fictional compilation about masturbation songs), and when he is writing about something he loves (especially when it has a personal connection to him), he's great. The entry on "Soldier Boy" in his Heart & Soul book comes to mind.

Wenner just sounds so thoroughly terrible, but the people who worked with him early on, when RS was still based in San Francisco, seem to adore him. Cameron Crowe, Greil Marcus...Marcus was asked about this and the anecdotes he gave dated from like 1970. So I get the feeling Wenner was an amazing editor at the start, and that earned some lifelong good will from those close to him.

I have heard from others that the reason they did that tribute to Dave Marsh thing via Zoom last year was down to his faltering cognition. It would seem to me, observing the kind of timid, needing his hand to be held behavior that was in effect last spring, that that tribute was intended to pat him on the head and remind him of his significance, after decades of him excoriating artists who had variously failed to live up to whatever standard he was enforcing at the time.

I watched those Zooms, and didn't see any evidence of Marsh's allegedly faltering cognition. I thought the tribute was more about, "Let's celebrate people while they're still here rather than waiting until after they die." As for "excoriating artists who had variously failed to live up to whatever standard he was enforcing at the time," I mean, name a critic who has never done that. Hell, I can think of a few critics who only do that.

Cameron Crowe, Greil Marcus...Marcus was asked about this and the anecdotes he gave dated from like 1970. So I get the feeling Wenner was an amazing editor at the start, and that earned some lifelong good will from those close to him.

Crowe surely feels indebted to Wenner for giving a 16-year-old a shot. And Marsh has praised Wenner's early interviews, particularly the 1968 RS interview with Pete Townshend about his upcoming rock opera that, in terms of narrative, was much more coherent than the album ended up being. But I think Wenner soon reached a point of, "Boy oh boy, I get to hang out with rock stars!" and everything became fawning.

Yeah, and when Marcus complained about their initial review section, which consisted of whatever showed up in the mail, he was made their first review editor, and that's when his career in the rock press was established. He brought in some of the better writers from Crawdaddy, and also printed an over-the-transome denunciation of the MC5 debut by some kid named Lester Bangs (who of course later reversed his stance, with equal drama). The Rolling Stone Record Review, mass market pb, published by Stone's Straight Arrow Press, ca. '72, has some good stuff, like Ed Ward's encounter with a single by Little Feat, whom he's never heard of: "Strawberry Flats," with his take reminding me of encountering earliest Ubu---there's also some dated stuff in there, but it's not nearly as snotty as I remembered, or maybe I just haven't gotten that far. Very informative, anyway (Bangs gives tips on the Box Tops etc.)

*transom*

Here's Ward's review, w gratutitous follow-up which I posted onLittle Feat - S&D, C/D

First contact:
"Hamburger Midnight" b/w "Strawberry Flats"
Little Feat (Warner Brothers 7431)

This is the masterpiece. This is perhaps the best record I've heard in several months. As usual, Warner's has picked the wrong side as the A-side. "Hamburger Midnight" is indeed a fine song, reminiscent of Johnny Winter, crackling and sizzling through two minutes packed with incredible energy. Yet it pales against "Strawberry Flats," which must be one of thr definitive statements of "where youth is at today." Dig these {partial) lyrics:

Ripped off and run outta town/Got my git-tar burned/When I was clownin'/Haven't slept in a bed for a week/And my shoes feel like part of my feet/ Let me come down/Where I won't be burden to no-one/Let me around/Give me a hole to recline in...
Knocked on my friend's door in Mooody, Texas/Asked if he had a place for me/His hair was cut off and he was wearin' a suit/ He said,/
"Not in my house! Not in my house!"
/It seemed like part of a con-spir-a-cy.

The singer is "six hours out on Strawberry Flats" and trying to get past the school bus Texas roadblock where they're "stoppin' everybody who looks too weird." The music sounds like the Band taken one step further. and it is difficult to believe that they generate so much excitement in two minutes and 21 seconds. This anthem of the Age of Paranoia deserves to be in your collection and on every radio station in the country, although I realize as I write that it is wishful thinking. The group Little Feat seems to have ex-Mother Roy Estrada, a guy named George, and another guy named Payne in it. Warner Brothers says that they have an album coming. but they're not too sure when. Watch for it, and if you don't believe me, invest 77¢ or whatever in the single.
---Ed Ward 11-26-70 from The Rolling Stone Record Review(Pocket Book edition, August 1971)

― dow, Tuesday, March 2, 2021 4:03 PM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

follow-up:

He didn't yet recognize "a guy named George" as another Mother. wiki sez:
Formative years

Lowell George met Bill Payne when George was a member of Frank Zappa's Mothers of Invention. Payne had auditioned for the Mothers, but had not joined. They formed Little Feat along with former Mothers' bassist Roy Estrada and drummer Richie Hayward from George's previous band, The Factory. Hayward had also been a member of the Fraternity of Man whose claim to fame was the inclusion of their "Don't Bogart That Joint" on the million-selling Easy Rider film soundtrack. The name of the band came from a comment made by Mothers' drummer Jimmy Carl Black about Lowell's "little feet". The spelling of "feat" was an homage to the Beatles.

I always liked Ward’s reviews, and I believe he wrote the review of the soundtrack to Sun Ra’s Space Is The Place that contains the only mention (so far) of Bill Dixon in the pages of RS (though Dixon does have an entry in the RS “jazz” Record Guide).

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Is that no the "wrong way around" ?