"Hard to fathom that Closer and Appetite for Destruction occurred during the same decade," said Alex in NYC. What are this decade's equivalent albums?

What two decade-defining albums from 2000-2009 create the most, er, "cognitive dissonance" for you when you think of them both coming from this decade? Does such a dynamic even exist in the decade of soulseek and the music blogs? And is it too early to say?

lol at implying that a Joy Division album is "decade-defining"

LOLOLOL I have to play the Joy Division song "Decades" now. Thanks, Rev. *high five*

Hasn't really been an album decade

And the whole indie/disco thing hasn't really let up since 98 or so

lol at implying that a Joy Division album is "decade-defining"

The band was quickly swept into the dustbin of history with only resourceful pop scholars with wild imaginations saying their influence could be heard later.

Kid A and Merriweather Post Pavillion are gonna be the bookends on every pseudo-intellectual trying-to-hard/not-trying-hard-enough best of list come november, just warning you

Really? Tbh AC haven't really spread all that far, people seem to give more a shit about the Yeah Yeah Yeahs or um TVOTR

Personally, I would use TVOTR albums as actual bookends, if nothing else.

I find it very easy to fathom that Closer and Appetite for Destruction. It's a big world and one person's decade-defining album is another's wtf, as the 2nd post on this thread makes clear. But playing along, how about The Avalanches: Since I Left You and The White Stripes: Elephant? Or Wilco: Yankee Hotel Foxtrot and Kanye West: The College Dropout?

I find it very easy to fathom that Closer and Appetite for Destruction occurred during the same decade, that is.

Stankonia and any trance/Eurodance-sampling rap hit of today.

kid a and that fucking kings of leon record?

Stankonia and any trance/Eurodance-sampling rap hit of today.

Er... how about Stankonia and that goddamned Soulja Boy album?

Thanks, but I didn't suggest that either album necessarily defined a decade. I just find them do vastly different from each other in terms of sound and sensibility that I found it striking that they were both recorded in a comparatively narrow time frame. Moreover, Appetite.. still seems fairly recent to me, whereas Closer sounds like it was recorded by ancient Egyptians.

so vastly, not do vastly

Moreover, Appetite.. still seems fairly recent to me, whereas Closer sounds like it was recorded by ancient Egyptians.

This is the most important thing here. I realize it's probably relative depending on age, but at what point did pop music shift into the current modern era? Because Appetite really does seem kind of in-line with what's going on now even if it's at the very early end of it, probably because the glam/sleaze metal revival never really took off outside of Buckcherry and The Darkness, meaning Gn'R aren't being replicated currently. Joy Division, on the other hand, has been canonized and repeated thousands of times in the music of bands from every corner of the world for the last 10 years, making them seem one generation removed from the present.

Because of that, it's way too early to make any claims about albums from the '00s.

Joy Division seemed "of another time" to me even in 1995, probably because Curtis has been dead for as long as I've been aware of the group.

GnR on the other hand released an album last year, so it's not surprising that they seem more "current", even if AfD was 22 years ago.

Because Appetite really does seem kind of in-line with what's going on now

Well, I didn't say that either. I do, however, vividly remember when that was a "new thing," however by the time of Appetite's release, New Order were already promoting a career-spanning singles compilation (Substance), further underlining how long it had been, figuratively speaking, since the demise of Joy Division. That's why it strikes me as so strange that the two albums were literally released within the same decade (albeit as bookends of a sort).

both are great classic rock albums

Joy Division seemed "of another time" to me even in 1995

I think part of their appeal is that they always sounded out of joint with what was going on around them. They were out of time in 1980 too.

OTM

both are great classic rock albums

― worm? lol (J0hn D.)

You've come a long way (on Gn'R).

Daniel does "both are great classic rock albums" sound like a post I'd make in earnest?

i think the lines get blurrier in the 90's and 2000's. or things get more post-post-post modern to the point where nothing and everything makes some sort of sense when combined or connected to each other. blame the internet. or whatever. but in the 80's the world felt much more segregated to me musically.

here's a good one for the 70's: start the decade with let it be and end up with metal box.

start the nineties with a jandek album and end it with another jandek album

Ha! Fair enough. (xp)

Genuine lol on that.

Also interesting: the aesthetics of these two bands converge pretty quickly around Pere Ubu/Rocket from the Tombs/Dead Boys.

http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/music/cover200/dre400/e417/e41719eqn7y.jpg

http://www.ihopeyourearsbleed.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/animal-collective-merriweather-post-pavilion.jpg

OK MPP is a bad example, need an actual top 10 album

I'll never get over how awful "Chocolate Starfish and the Hot Dog Flavored Water" is as an album title, or furthermore as a use of the English language.

here's a good one just for the year 1985:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/HalberMenschAlbumCover.jpg

http://www.3-x.nl/images/front/26844.jpg

COMPLETELY different night rhythms.

Rockists

I don't think it makes sense taking two albums from different genres that came out during the same decade and offering them as some proof of change, because you can't really compare them. This sort of "measuring change by difference between albums" thing only works if they're within the same genre.

Is that Mark Lawrenson bottom right?

EN and Debarge are both soul artists!

x-post

and joy division and guns & roses are both rock bands.

same with my other example, the beatles & PIL.

i'd def say that the whole tom green/limp bizkit/marshall mathers/stoopid angry white american aesthetic is pretty far removed from how things are now. In fact this is one of the first times in recent musical history that I can think of where there is no all-purpose all-pervading style of angsty rock (eg. grunge/emo/nu-metal/the smiths) for the kids to get upset to.

i'd like to see the opposite of this thread asking for examples of how far we haven't come since, say 2001. I think comparing Fischerspooner (who, if we can all remember were derided by everyone as the primary exponents of a flash-in-the-pan joke-genre called electroclash), to pretty much anyone from Calvin Harris to Hot Chip to Crystal Castles and there's not that much to compare, sonically and i guess aesthetically pleasing..

many people still seem to like 'Emerge' so i dunno about your judgement/memory of FSpooner/eClash there.

TBH I think this pretty much breaks down as "music I was there for" vs "music I wasn't there for". 8 or 9 years between The Smiths and Oasis seems like an enormous gulf. The same time period between jungle and 2-step just doesn't.

(Okay the latter is only 7 years really which may be cheating a bit, but you get the point)

Daniel does "both are great classic rock albums" sound like a post I'd make in earnest?

― worm? lol (J0hn D.), Monday, May 18, 2009 8:32 AM Bookmark

yeah?

Tom Green is lol Canadian xxxpost

many people still seem to like 'Emerge' so i dunno about your judgement/memory of FSpooner/eClash there.

― Hard House SugBanton (blueski), Monday, 18 May 2009 15:04 (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

No no, that's what I mean. In 2000/2001 Muzik and Mixmag and (to a lesser extent) Jockey Slut, were still bigging up the likes of Tall Paul and other such nonsense, but when electroclash came out, I think the campy/"artificial"/retro aspect rubbed a lot of people's backs the wrong way and I remember reading a lot of stuff about how it was nothing but a craze. Technically, if we see "electroclash" to mean the revival of electro-based music in the noughties, then of course it was a bit more than just a passing fad, even if it did develop quite a bit since 2001.

Tom Green is lol Canadian xxxpost

― naturally unfunny, though mechanically sound (Pancakes Hackman), Monday, 18 May 2009 15:24 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Geography's for loosers man

so's spelling

I could totally hear Joy Division covering "It's So Easy".

Sounds like the Manic Street Preachers' wet dream.

This decade, especially the last 3 years, has been too weak for this comparison to work. .. Even that middle section of the 80's that was kind of weak still produced a handful of classic albums..

Also IMO the progression of music that took place between 1980 and 1989 was more drastic than that between 2000 and 2009. I think it's very easy to imagine most popular albums from 2000/2001 being released today and still receiving acclaim & record sales.

I guess The Blueprint and Tha Carter III.. if I really had to choose.

No way.

The two records share producers and collaborators and Jay-Z is on both and one is pretty much the personally anointed successor to the other.

What American bands from 1980 would have been broadly analogous to GnR? I can't think of any.

You're right about Jay-Z & Lil Wayne.. this question is impossible..

Maybe Toxicity and Hissing Fauna Are You The Destroyer..

xp New York Dolls, but not in terms of success.

not American but, uh...Sabbath?

Was the whole Sunset Strip hard rock really that new when Appetite came out? I wasn't really aware at the time, but surely Motley Crue, Def Leppard, Megadeth et al all around before G'n'R... It's not as if they invented hard rock and heavy metal in 1987.

I don't think that's really whats being asked.

What American bands from 1980 would have been broadly analogous to GnR? I can't think of any.

aerosmith? van halen?

I'm tempted to tell billstevejim he's totally wrong with his wild generalisations upthread. But there's truth, particularly in Britain about how music's changed (or not). Coldplay and Radiohead are still the biggest rock bands in England for instance, which is depressing. Dance music though, you've got Grime and Dubstep as developments and whereas at the beginning of the decade UK Rap was seen as a bit of a joke, the likes of Roots Manuva and Dizzee have spurned a whole heap of decent lyricalists.

"8 or 9 years between The Smiths and Oasis seems like an enormous gulf. The same time period between jungle and 2-step just doesn't.

― Enormous Epic (Matt DC)"

yet the 6 years between ragga jungle in 95 and whatever you want to call the shit passing for drum and bass in 01 was huge. of course i saw more connections with 2-step and jungle at that time, but jungle => drum and bass was still in name the same genre.

I don't follow this analogy. Closer was a cult fav post punk album that a small group loved and Appetite was a gigantic chart topping monolith. should we compare the rapture and nickelback?

Wasn't Aerosmith on hiatus in 1980? I was going to mention them too.

xpost Closer was top 10 in the UK, wasn't it?

I don't know that I find it ridiculously hard to fathom that these two albums came out in the 80s. They both sound like they came after and were informed by both punk and classic rock. They both sound like they predate any developments of the 90s.

I'm changing mine to Toxicity and Dear Science.

Like, the Joy Division definitely sounds earlier but it doesn't sound like it could have come out any earlier than the late 70s.

the likes of Roots Manuva and Dizzee have spurned a whole heap of decent lyricalists.

i dunno if things have really improved here compared to 10 years ago (time of Roots debut)

The first Gorillaz album and Kala.

Iconic frontman who died at the start of the decade vs totally different frontman who didn't really go away. I'm having trouble fitting Nevermind and The Soft Bulletin in the same decade for example, despite them being contemporaries.

00s seems to be short on iconic dead pop stars really.

Aaliyah ftw on that front.

Let's Get Ready and King (??) (which is Mystikal and T.I.)

If only Nigga Please had been released a few months later..

AfD was near the tail end of trad hair metal, Closer the beginning of a new angle of rock - Closer sounds a lot more contemporary than AfD which is completely dated (novelty value notwithstanding).

Maybe something like Linkin Park vs MGMT?

That's how the GNR/JD comparison sounds to me, and it's good to know I'm not the only one.

i guess this question only really makes sense if you stick within vaguely similar genres...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hXTKsubFjyw/SLRsJtCOd6I/AAAAAAAAAXs/Q3TFS57Wpww/s400/MusicCatalog%255CA%255CAaliyah%2520-%2520Aaliyah%255CAaliyah%2520-%2520Aaliyah.jpg

http://4.music.bigpond-images.com/images/AlbumCoverArt/87/XXL/Back-To-Black.jpg

I find this much easier to do with the 1990s... For example, here's two German electronic albums with only 6 years between them:

https://cocoon.net/shop/catalog/mp3shop/cover/0000212119_350.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6_kFMqOA4NA/RXvzgvaYqnI/AAAAAAAAABE/B147soB76wo/s320/pole1.jpg

Closer sounds a lot more contemporary than AfD which is completely dated

Seriously? You don't even think GnR sounds more recent in terms of, say, production quality?

Ahhh . . . I think it's more that Closer has that "lean" sound that "feels" like the future, when in fact, GnR's heavier, more dense sound is more like what you actually hear on commercial rock radio (which I only listen to occassionally, so wtfdoiknownothingthat'swhat).

Are we talking about production to the point of totally excluding content here?

Just that the idea of GNR being 'heavier' than JD is a little bizarre to my way of thinking. It's a big, slick rawk radio sound to be sure.

The production of Closer feels very much like a late 70s/early 80s concept of the future to me!

xpost I dunno, I could see Unknown Pleasures or the earlier punk JD as heavier than GnR but not Closer, really.

(I love Closer far more than Appetite FWIW.)

"Heavier" is a very subjective concept; anyway, this is derailing into TS: JD vs GNR, which is way off topic. We're supposed to be coming up with equivalent contrasts in the 00's

the blueprint + 808s & heartbreak

In terms of weight, Closer = anvil and Appetite = candy wrapper.

the 90s are much easier:

13-point program to destroy america to the shape of punk to come...

i do think that the blueprint-->tha carter iii is the best you've come up with so far though.

taking popular country into account, how abouuuuttt... come on over and taylor swift?

chocolate starfish & the hot dog flavored water

&

MGMT

(oracular whatever)

^That works.

And, damn, Aaliyah was hot.

Big L - The Big Picture

Asher Roth - Asleep in the Bread Aisle

;_;

when i think 90's i think of the leap from the chronic to supA DUPA fly. well, that's not all i think about, but that's one thing i think of. and it's only, like, a five year leap.

i dunno, there are lots of leaps. there are no end to leaps.

lol u ready for this (and these albums are pretty confirmed inside my decade top 10, the latter is actually my stone-cold favourite, no questions asked)

Half Man Half Biscuit - Trouble Over Bridgwater
Ulver - Blood Inside

*minds blow*

I'm curious to ask, what's the rest of your decade top ten?

Daft Punk's Discovery and x.

"x"?

Anything really. Maybe a Wilco album.

0304 and Lullaby.

Daniel does "both are great classic rock albums" sound like a post I'd make in earnest?

― worm? lol (J0hn D.), Monday, May 18, 2009 8:32 AM

This problem of misreading the tone of written messages seems to be bothering you a lot recently. You should write a song about it.

(Yeah, I did that on purpose.)