Wilco: A Ghost Is Born poll

muzzle of bees

spiders>handshake drugs>late greats>company>wishful>at least>the rest

the rest > spiders

(the early,neil young styled live version of Late Greats is so good btw)

"handshake drugs"

this poll doesn't work for me :(

handshake drugs >>>>>>>>>>> muzzle of bees > less than you think >>> spiders > the late greats >> wishful thinking >>>> at least that's what you said

the rest is kinda irrelevant tbh

otm
belongs to the type albums which are more or less half great half boring

As far as I'm concerned "Spiders (Kidsmoke)" justifies their entire spotty career. Voted for that one. Play it loud.

"Wishful Thinking", just barely over "Spiders (Kidsmoke)".

is this album where the practice of using greater than and less than signs originated? because that's retarded.

Company In My Back. Didn't even have to think about it.

i'm deliberating between 'at least that's what you said' and 'theologians'. might go with the former because it's exciting and has that awesome instrumental break.

Hummingbird, even if it is this album's Jesus Etc..

Wishful Thinking. Didn't even have to think about it.

went for 'theologians', could have easily been swayed by 'hummingbird' or 'spiders' or pretty much any of the others instead...

basically for a while i had a different favourite from this album every day.

Easy, Company in My Back.

wishful thinking! theologians came close.

this is my least favorite Wilco album (haven't yet heard A.M.). i think it's all because of the song "Less Than You Think," it's a horrible idea and it goes on for over 15 minutes. the song might work if it wasn't Wilco but to put that on an album just brings it down a couple of pegs.

Theologians

i will defend to the death an artist's right to commit stuff like "less than you think" to tape, even/especially within an album context

also it is a fantastic piece of music and conveys illness better than anything else i have ever heard

fair enough, but at one time songs like that would become B-sides and not put on albums...

i'm happy to concede an artist's right to commit a song like "less than you think" to tape, but it remains an awful, indulgent and dull piece.

i mean wilco are one of my very favourite bands, but surely there's barely anyone out there who can make it through that track without a good deal of toil and impatience. for mine, it's a bit of a blight on the album and a stroke of poor judgment - i wonder how it made it so far off the drawing board.

"Muzzle of Bees". I've read that Tweedy struggles with migraines, and I hear the song as illustrating the gradual return of one after the pain medication's worn off, until it's fully raging.

I think it's gotta be the first song, one of Tweedy's prettiest melodies. I love the imagery in the second verse of the girl tending to the singer's black eye she herself gave to him. And the instrumental breakdown is great, Tweedy actually sounds raw and emotional soloing. (I'm pretty sure it's him on lead.)

I gotta admit I don't really fuck with this band too much anymore but what I've heard from the new one sounds great, will definitely get it.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Don't really know how anyone could choose anything other than At Least That's What You Said

less than you think is pretty great too. the wire review at the time said it was challenging *in the context of the album* which makes sense to me and I totally buy into LJs position on it

at least that's what you said.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

missed this poll. would have gone for either At Least That's What You Said for awesome guitar action or Wishful Thinking

yay ILM in OTM shocka

And I didn't vote coz of some mod glitch so it's really 11

nice to see the two most pointless tracks getting 0 votes

the chances are probably pretty low that they'll ever make another record as good as this

true, although One Sunday Morning is still their best song by suuuuch a long way (imo of course)

Wilco's best song is Hey Jealousy

Top result is right

i wouldn't have voted for it. probably "at least that's what you said"

not that it's bad.

feel like "i'm a wheel" would've come in last for me

"I'm a wheel" comes last in nearly every poll I can imagine.

it's just slight compared to everything else. like "i might" on the last record

There's a great, early, slow Neil Young-ish version of Late Greats performed live but I can't find it...

"less than you think" is such an amazing piece

wishful thinking is so good

less than you think is also amazing. the long outro of gentle noise is good, especially when capped off with the light, philosophical "the late greats".

lol

not sure which thread to mention this on because they're all getting bumped but I just bought tix to bring my whole family (3 youngish children) to Solid Sound over memorial day weekend. Pretty excited, will have a full report for ilm

the drone on "less than you think" is a fine concept just i don't find the execution compelling at all as far as drones go. even the drone is better live, though they usually only go for a few minutes before transitioning into "art of almost" or "ashes of american flags" or something.

i agree with hideous lump re: it coming across better if "the late greats" was a hidden track but i don't really care for "the late greats" at all so cutting it completely would be fine.

"i'm a wheel" is inessential but fun and i have no problem with it, it's nice to have that burst of energy on the album. it would have been good to have something like "kicking television" on the album too but the studio version is pretty bad, that's the biggest transformation live.

“the late greats” is awesome wtf. i don’t think “adding more songs and keeping the album at an hour-plus” is the interesting way to play god here but whatever

"The Late Greats" is awesome. God schmod, adding those two tracks in those exact spots and ditching most of the noise made me a fan.

i lol at "once in germany someone said 'nein' / one two three four five six seven eight nine" every time

There's a bootleg of their May 2002 show at the Riviera in Chicago (for Northwestern University's "ball") and the friendly-to-a-fault crowd constantly screams at them to play new stuff, as in unreleased stuff. Tweedy almost obliges when he says with a straight face, "we have something called "Someone in Germany said 'Nein'"." A bunch of people start cracking up at that, but the band decides not to play it and go straight into "Jesus, Etc."

'Kicking Television (the song) sounded less demented in live versions prior to the album's release, not sure why the studio version took the route it did... Previously it just sounded like a cousin of 'I'm A Wheel', which was why I assumed they only picked one for AGIB.

also tweedy still plays a bunch of the lead parts from this album live, like the main solo on "at least that's what you said" and most of the solos on "spiders" are him. cline just really helps fill out all the songs live, in addition to assisting with shredding.

Just a head’s up that when I tried to post a link to “Spiders” on FB I got flagged for “promoting suicide,” or some bullshit.

I guess at least one friend is not a fan

I mean, I guess?!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9wMLyIxGNs

this is much better than the version on the album, which i've always thought was too mellow. tweedy's soloing over pretty much the whole song and it's wonderful

this reissue has four cds of studio improvisations which is pretty wild, on top of 2 discs of a live show & 2 discs of alternate takes & outtakes (including some early versions of "impossible germany"?)

One of my very first concerts was Wilco in Chicago, May 2002. I very rarely went to concerts then so it was a pretty big deal for me. The crowd was very friendly, almost to a fault as they openly demanded new songs they hadn't heard yet, which bewildered Tweedy. He said they had a new one but he wasn't sure they were ready to play it - with a completely straight, unsmiling face, he said the title was "Somebody in Germany Said 'Nein'" which cracked everyone up, as if it was a deadpan joke. Anyway after conferring with the band, they didn't play it.

This thing is crazy:

WILCO – A GHOST IS BORN 20TH ANNIVERSARY DELUXE REISSUE TRACKLIST

A Ghost Is Born

1. At Least That’s What You Said
2. Hell Is Chrome
3. Spiders (Kidsmoke)
4. Muzzle of Bees
5. Hummingbird
6. Handshake Drugs
7. Wishful Thinking
8. Company in My Back
9. I’m a Wheel
10. Theologians
11. Less Than You Think
12. The Late Greats

dBpm: Outtakes/Alternates 1

1. At Least That’s What You Said (8/13/02 SOMA-Chicago)
2. Hell Is Chrome (10/5/03 SOMA-Chicago)
3. Spiders (Kidsmoke) (9/28/03 SOMA-Chicago)
4. Muzzle Of Bees (7/15/03 SOMA-Chicago)
5. Hummingbird (2/8/02 SOMA-Chicago)
6. Handshake Drugs (11/13/03 Sear Sound-NYC)
7. Wishful Thinking (11/1/03 Sear Sound-NYC)
8. Company In My Back (2/8/03 Hothouse-St. Kilda, Melbourne, Australia)
9. I’m A Wheel (August 2002 SOMA-Chicago)
10. Theologians (3/19/03 SOMA-Chicago)
11. Less Than You Think (11/11/03 Sear Sound-NYC)
12. The Late Greats (7/19/03 SOMA-Chicago)
13. Kicking Television (3/18/03 SOMA-Chicago)
14. The High Heat (2/5/02 SOMA-Chicago)
15. Panthers (March 2003 SOMA-Chicago)
16. Diamond Claw (3/21/03 SOMA-Chicago)
17. Bob Dylan’s 49th Beard (June 2002 SOMA-Chicago)
18. More Like The Moon
19. Improbable Germany (10/7/03 SOMA-Chicago)

Unstitched: Outtakes/Alternates 2

1. Handshake Drugs (First Version) (6/26/02 SOMA-Chicago)
2. Hummingbird (February 2002 recorded live during tracking at SOMA-Chicago)
3. The High Heat (2/4/02 SOMA-Chicago)
4. Spiders (Kidsmoke) (February 2002 SOMA-Chicago)
5. Diamond Claw (March 2003 SOMA-Chicago)
6. Muzzle Of Bees (October 2003 Sear Sound-NYC)
7. Like A Stone (11/10/03 Sear Sound-NYC)
8. Leave Me (Like You Found Me) (6/26/02 SOMA-Chicago)
9. Losing Interest (11/11/03 Sear Sound-NYC)
10. Old Maid (6/26/02 SOMA-Chicago)
11. Spiders (Kidsmoke) (August 2002 SOMA-Chicago)
12. Panthers (October 2003 Sear Sound-NYC)
13. Muzzle Of Bees (7/16/03 SOMA-Chicago)
14. Diamond Claw (10/9/03 SOMA-Chicago)
15. Losing Interest (7/20/03 SOMA-Chicago)
16. Spiders (Kidsmoke) (October 2003 SOMA-Chicago)
17. The Thanks I Get (6/26/02 SOMA-Chicago)
18. Two Hat Blues (March 2003 SOMA-Chicago)
19. Improbable Germany (January 2002 Pre-Production Loft session-Chicago)

The Hook at The Wang
(Live October 2, 2004 at the Wang Center-Boston, MA)

1. Muzzle Of Bees
2. Company In My Back
3. I Am Trying To Break Your Heart
4. A Shot In The Arm
5. Hell Is Chrome
6. Handshake Drugs
7. Jesus, Etc.
8. Hummingbird
9. I’m Always In Love
10. At Least That’s What You Said
11. Ashes Of American Flags
12. Theologians
13. I’m The Man Who Loves You
14. Poor Places
15. Spiders (Kidsmoke)
16. She’s A Jar
17. A Magazine Called Sunset
18. Kingpin
19. The Late Greats
20. I’m A Wheel
21. Via Chicago
22. California Stars
23. Christ For President

Fundamentals

1. Fundamental 1
2. Fundamental 2
3. Fundamental 3
4. Fundamental 4
5. Fundamental 5
6. Fundamental 6
7. Fundamental 7

great double bill when i saw them tour it with the fiery furnaces. "poor places" into "spiders (kidsmoke)" should be a standard "china cat/sunflower" number for them imo.

i actually just checked if that '04 Boston show was form the same tour because i was pretty sure when i saw them was within a day or two and it turns out that date they have listed is incorrect - it was 10/1.

Anyone knows if the Fundamental sessions contain music that ended up on the Wilco Book cd and/or the drone recordings in "Less than you think"?

i think the wilco book is mostly (entirely?) excerpts from the fundamentals jams

hah, that just reminded me that i was a complete sucker and bought the wilco book in hopes the cd had better material than had been on AGIB.

the version of "hummingbird" on it is pretty cool at least

it's like something from amnesiac

just relistened to that version and i could see that version have making the final cut if bennett had still been in tow. it's trying for the YHF vibe but missing the mark.

thesis: _the wilco book_ hummingbird is the best hummingbird that isn't a real bird.

exposition on _the wilco book_ and whathaveyou:
mostly obsolete by now, but this is where i first heard the alternate take of "hummingbird" and that's the best thing wilco ever did. it thankfully has showed up again and is easily heard on the proper rarities set. the rest of the music portion is generally highly entertaining for yhf/ghost era fans. peak 2000s ephemera. fun stuff. (three mics)

bonus track thoughts for ilxors: amnesiac comparison otm. that's the appeal for me. to be more specific, always thought the alt "hummingbird" was the band's attempt at a postal service kinda sound. can't wait to dig into the deluxe reissue; the yhf one was like an unnarrated longform documentary and am hoping for similar vibes here.

I blasted "Spiders (Kidsmoke)" the first time in 10 years a couple days ago and....it sounded labored.

yeah that's how nearly all of a ghost is born sounds, the live versions are universally better

it's frustrating because the material is some of their best but "at least that's what you said" is the only thing that's really done justice by the version on the album

i'm hoping the set of alternate takes from the reissue will prove to be a superior version of the album given how much better the version of "handshake drugs" is

AGIB seems to be a lot of folks' favorite Wilco album, but to me it's the first step in a long, slow decline. labored is a good criticism of it.

I like it a lot, and I also came to like SBS after I got over its dadrock sounds, I also love Star Wars as much as any Wilco and even think Cousin is pretty excellent. There are a few in between records with slim rewards but I’ve been regularly surprised at their ability to regroup and reach the peaks again.

the version of "hummingbird" on it is pretty cool at least

― ufo, Tuesday, November 26, 2024 12:22 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBF8rxC8E9k

"A Ghost is Born" is not bad, but it sort of is their post "YHF" "New Jersey." Regardless, it's a clear demarcation line, the last Tweedy made before getting sober and the last before adding Nels Cline. Most of the lineup of this album can play guitar, but I think it's also the last one where Tweedy is essentially the lead guitarist (dunno if it's before or after he took a few lessons with Richard Lloyd).

I was trying to figure out the last Wilco album that featured song titles that didn't ring a bell, and maybe it's because I live here and hear the group pretty often, it's surprisingly late in their discography. Weirdly, it may be "Star Wars," an album I know I liked yet still scans totally unfamiliar to me. "Schmilco" and "Ode to Joy," I'm pretty sure I've never heard them, for no good reason, though I feel like I heard a lovely song from the latter on a TV show or in a commercial or something. Maybe this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VamTQr4kcKA

"Cruel Country" and "Cousins," I'm back to recognizing a couple of tracks on each, but again, I think that's because they are more recent and got some airplay here.

we discussed (i think? can't find it now) in another thread how Star Wars feels like a relatively small blip in their catalog because they surprise released it and, if i recall correctly, were experimenting with ... not promoting it? or, like, "what if we put out a record with no run-up / narrative" or something like that.

shame, as it's the best one post-YHF, imo.

xp love that song. all of the last ~5 albums have highs and lows. I prefer to listen to a playlist of my favorite songs from this period than the albums proper.

tweedy taking guitar lessons from richard lloyd was before a ghost is born, he was obsessed with marquee moon during the sessions & his solos were heavily inspired by it. the influence is particularly obvious on the b-side "kicking television" of course

xxpost "Love Is Everywhere" was in a Corona commercial that ran prominently on TV right at the beginning of the pandemic, featuring people on Zoom, neighbors toasting from their respective decks, stuff like that.

I'm The Man Who Loves You on YHF has Tweedy wailing away in the AGIB style... wonder when exactly he got the lessons

Some old Seymour Duncan press release I just found says: "For his thirty-fourth birthday, Tweedy received a private guitar lesson from Richard Lloyd of Television; Tweedy was a big fan of the group and was particularly fond of the guitar work, which he wanted to incorporate into his music." So if Tweedy is 57 now, that was 23 years ago, so 2001. Lloyd apparently flew out and they spent a day playing. A Q&A:

hello richard, this is adam. i read that you gave jeff tweedy a guitar lesson and was wondering about some of the things you talked about, seeing as how i love both his and your playing. hopefully you can shed some light on this. i plan on checking out some of the lessons on your site and appreciate them very much!

thanks, adam

Hello Adam,
Thank you for writing, and for your interest in Jeff Tweedy and myself. Unfortunately, private lessons are just that -- private. For that reason, I cannot answer your questions with respect to what might have taken place between us, but we are and have been friends for a rather longtime -- Wilco opened a number of shows for Matthew Sweet many years ago when I was on tour with Matthew. We all became warm friends then and remain so, even though Jeff lives in Chicago and I live in New York. His wife called me a couple of years ago because she wanted to get him a guitar lesson from me for his birthday. So I flew to Chicago and we spend the day together. And I just saw him a month or so ago in Brazil when we both played at the Tim Festival in Rio de Janeiro.

Best regards,
Richard Lloyd

https://www.richardlloyd.com/solute.htm

Helps explain Television's appearance at Solid Sound 2019.

i was always bewildered "kicking television" never made the album cut but "i'm a wheel" did

I assumed it was between one or the other. The studio KT has a really demented vocal delivery, so that could be why they chose I'm A Wheel

the problem with the rock songs from the agib sessions are that they're all too sterile on the album, it doesn't really feel like they're letting loose in the way that they need to for the songs to work

So precise, and tiring

i just wish they'd make a new album as good as their absurdly good live show, even the best track they released in the last decade ("bird without a tail") pales in comparison to how they play it live.

To be clear, the precision and weariness are the point of AGIB. For me it works really well. I know folks adore the more ragged edge of their performances but I like them in cerebral lockdown better.

i was relistening to AGIB during a drive yesterday and i was shocked at how the clunky the transitions in "Spiders" from the Neu to rock sections are.

Ya gotta give 'em credit for even trying, though. Outside of Stereolab, what other rockers were messing with the motorik back then?

Tortoise? Yo La Tengo?

Just a few years before, Primal Scream was recording with Jaki & Karoli.

...and they were sampling Can beats before that.

On the Nels tip, The Geraldine Fibbers did a Can cover:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkMLiRV3r2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz4jcYHjqzw

all the alternate takes on the boxset are interesting (many are very different), but they aren't all clearly superior to the album versions like the "handshake drugs" version they released a few months ago

the version of "less than you think" here is really good though, i wish more of that sound had made it into the album

the first version of "hummingbird" here would of course be revelatory if it hadn't been released ages ago

i've only skimmed the "fundamental" jam sessions so far but they're a lot better than i thought they'd be