spirituality in pop?

i tend to edge away towards the door when people start talking about spirituality.

yes, good for you, but why?

Careful or the Killing Joke army will return.

I suppose my general prejudice is organised religion spirituality in pop - bad, vague hippy nonsense spirituality - occasionally good.

Perhaps I'll confront this prejudice, or perhaps I'll invoke the 'pop appreciation is all about making pig-headedly irrational choices' clause and stick with it.

Exception to rule: Gospel music, at least as it affects the work of Al Green in something like 'Belle'. But that's more of a theological musing.

Spirituality in pop has three meanings really:

i) Attempts by singers and songwriters to grapple with the nature of religious experience, their relationship with the divine, attempts to find meaning in existence in a post-'death of god' world, etc. eg. the VU's "Jesus", loads of Dylan, loads of Nick Cave.

ii) Songs of praise eg Gospel, Hymns, some Reggae

iii) Bands doing slow songs with a lot of kind of wordless oooh-ing in it. or bands who write sad songs which you suspect are drug- influenced i.e. Spiritualized (name a bit of a giveaway), Sigur Ros, "Our Prayer" by the Beach Boys. Also the dance equivalent i.e. trance tunes with 'lovely' arpeggiated breakdowns, Orbital songs with women sampled on them.

All three types can be good or bad. With type iii) though the word "spiritualized" tends to mean "ethereal but, like, deep too"

This Mortal Coil - Song to the Siren

From the first time I heard it in the mid 80s to when I listen to it now - there is a deep spiritual feeling to this track that emotionally connects with me everytime.

It was only years later that I heard Tim Buckley's original version, but Liz Fraser's vocals makes the track work for me.

How would i describe it in more detail - difficult - just listen and experience it.

Type iii), I believe.

dj martian just politely declined to talk about one of his favorite songs in detail. perhaps a 'get well soon' is in order?

Spacemen 3 - Lord can you hear me.

Just rediscovered this one. Was blown away by the emptiness and the yearning. Very touching. As per Spiritualized druggies make my favorite spirituals.

WE NEVER WENT AWAY!

Tom's almost botanical answer (ii. - herbacious border spirituality. Piercus Bowlcutus) puts

ii) Songs of praise eg Gospel, Hymns, some Reggae

in a different category from the rather more perjorative sounding

iii) Bands doing slow songs with a lot of kind of wordless oooh- ing

One of the exciting, liberating things I felt about the Jason Pierce songs on Playing With Fire at the time is that -drugs or no drugs- they had a sound and subject matter as profound, simple and moving as classic gospel. But they were modern.

Then he formed Spiritualized and ruined my day.

Well the Jason Pierce stuff has lots of type i) - songs wrestling w/qn of faith - too. I never get the feeling Pierce is a straightforward believer in the way praise singers are.

I certainly think there is such a thing as spirituality in pop, but to me it seems wholly subjective and personal; it often turns up when you least expect it. I find Paddy Kingsland's "The Space Between" incredibly spiritual, but he was also capable of tedious off-the- shelf KPM dreck, which suggests that spirituality can be entirely a one-off, and even something you imagine rather than something that was intended to be there.

But there is music where I can feel it and music where I can't. In the case of someone like Momus, though, the absence of spirituality would not be a criticism, because it so clearly sets itself out by totally different criteria.

his name is alive are actually pretty devout but as they continue on their current path they see to be moving away from it which to me is a bit disappointing and now with their new r'n'b album on the way (granted with a gospel singer) they have gone completely mad. i admire people with faith, i find myself more of an empiricist and without the imagination to grapple with religion but for those who can place hope in the unknowable with absolute confidence that seems brave to me, also foolish. but the hnia side projects including velour 100 on god squad label tooth and nail still ooze jesus. what about all of the biblical imagery on the first stone roses record does it add or detract from the overall impact?

I prefer Ian Brown's theory of creation about the link between him and dolphins.

Sometimes the spirituality of Leonard Cohen can be off-putting cos it seems superior and smug, like he's struggling with a personal god in the middle of a vast desert, and everyone else just doesn't get it. But then the imagery in "Suzanne" is really wonderful...