New Order: Low-Life poll

did Rhino Records ever fix the remastering problems from last years reissues?

3. This Time of Night
4. Sunrise
5. Elegia

one of these

Love Vig was that time where I bought an album, having loved the previous, expecting perhaps something good but prepared for "oh well, still, PCL is still great"

and ended up playing track 1 three times in "whoa! WHAT!"

Who will be the first to provoke Dan into his anti-"Subculture" rant?

It's funny how for years this was the consensus favorite, and now it's a distant third behind Technique and PCL. The album traks are probably NO's slowest growers, but once they do they sink deep ("This Time of Night" and "Sunrise"; the latter's maybe the last display of Barney's axmanship?)

Voted for "Love Vigilantes" anyway -- I couldn't vote for the 12" of "Perfect Kiss."

I am actually kind of shocked that I'm really leaning towards "This Time Of Night"; before seeing this poll and looking at all of the songs side by side I would have been all "'Sunrise', no question".

So far, each NO poll has been won by track one!

I can't see it being different here.

Voted This Time of Night but would have voted for Subculture or The Perfect Kiss if the 12" versions had been on the album.

Face Up was my fave back in the day but am leaning toward Love Vigilantes now

boring love vigilantes voter

"Sooner Than You Think". I played this album to death over the years and I think it's the only song that I'm not burned out on. I've probably had five or six different favourite songs from Low-Life, at different times, including most of the ones mentioned (in complete agreement with the all the love for the 12" versions of "PK" and "Subculture").

1. The Perfect Kiss
2. Face Up
3. Sunrise
4. Subculture
5. Love Vigilantes
6. Sooner Than You Think
7. This Time Of Night
8. Elegia

"Sooner Than You Think" is the gem among gems here, despite my fondness for LL's superior "Sub-Culture".

did Rhino Records ever fix the remastering problems from last years reissues?

The official word now is that discs with 'upgraded audio' will be out in late August.

Face Up - love the switcheroo it pulls in the beginning

thanks for the info Millsner.

"Face Up" was my fave back in the day as well, but now I want to vote for something else. I need to get this album on my new iPod first and then I'll decide.

Okay I spent all of this time gritting my teeth and avoiding the "Sub-Culture" rant only for people to post things that REALLY make me want to go into the "Face Up" rant.

Oh god so hard. Perfect Kiss or Elegia, I think. Though Elegia was somewhat tainted for me by my brother nicking my copy and playing that song OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Love Vigilantes featured in some freaking bizarre medication-induced delusions so I can never listen to it the same way again.

Guess I'm gonna have to go with the single, then.

It's funny how for years this was the consensus favorite

Yeh, I always wondered about that. Of the "classic" albums -- which, for me, would be, er, everything except the last two (so, yes, I would include Republic) -- it's probably my least favourite. (I seem to remember ranking them somewhere on ILM, actually. Can't be arsed looking for that, though.)

Boringly, then, I think it'll be Elegia. After that ... Love Vigilantes, then Face Up.

This Time Of Night/Sunrise/Sooner Than You Think: yeh, they're OK. But nothing to write home about. Or even write on ILM about.

Subculture (along with Shellshock) will always be "the bit on Substance where my attention wandered": I do prefer the album version to the 12", but that's not saying a great deal.

As for The Perfect Kiss: I've been listening to this album for more than half my life and I *still* feel a small lurch of disappointment when it fades out. They'd have been better keeping it off the album altogether -- you know, in the proper NO SINGLES ON ALBUMS way -- than buggering it up like that.

I will always rep for Sub-Culture. Does anyone here have the 7" flexi mix? I lost my copy of that and really miss it. I was never a big fan of the 12" mix with the female backing vox, though.

Another vote for Love Vigilantes from me.

i found this on Wiki:

It was the second and final single that also appeared on the group's album release of the same year, Low-Life. The mix (by John Robie) is different from the one that appears on the album. "Sub-culture" has only a regular black sleeve, as graphic designer Peter Saville reportedly deemed the mix of the song unworthy of his talents. The song has stirred some controversy with attempts to understand the lyrics being unsubstantiated by the group itself, particularly the use of the word shaft with its possible sexual connotations.

That's right! I remember reading that about Saville before. That gives me great pleasure because that 12" version really blew.

I am confused by the different versions of SubCulture. I think it's the album version I like and the single version I hate. I need to dig this album out again and listen to it, clearly. Always a good excuse to listen to New Order albums!

Still my favorite NO video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--pSWLEVGhY

Voted for this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC1eNmBk0ME

First time I saw NO was on this 1985 and "Sunrise" was just so amazingly full-on live.

Yes, aaahh, that video. I just love the tiny interactions between them in the studio. Now I'm glad I voted Perfect Kiss.

Love Vigilantes. It's everything going for it: the lyrics are good (for once in a New Order song), the harmonica is totally unexpected, and it's incredibly poignant. Oh yeah, and the tune is great.

Love the whole album but for sentimental reasons it can only be "Perfect Kiss" for me, truncated though it may be.

The harmonica's a melodica!

A perfect album as far as I'm concerned, but if I must choose one, let it be "Love Vigilantes"

Jesus, the idea of Barney trying to play a harmonica ...

Live version of LV from the same show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vPt8LnkQ3g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZDYqu2T_tg

Love Vigilantes. It's everything going for it: the lyrics are good (for once in a New Order song)

wtf???

terible, terrible lyrics. love the last minute or so.

the substance mix of 'sub-culture' >>> mix on this.

Better fucking believe it's a melodica, bitch. We've got a nice New Order tribute band here in town and I was delighted when they brought out the melodica for Love Vigilantes. That was a clear sign they were trying their best to pay tribute to the essence of New Order.

It is a MELODICA
as sometimes used in REGGAE
get with the CLUE

any version of Subculture aside from the album version should be avoided at all costs.

And yes I agree that crimes were committed when The Perfect Kiss was truncated for the album. I understand the trauma this caused, I really do. I feel you. All the more reason to hug the 12" version closer to your chest, eh? We will survive!

any version of Subculture aside from the album version should be avoided at all costs.

is madness. possibly barney's weakest ever vocal performance. robie performed a miraculous rescue job.

It's funny how for years this was the consensus favorite, and now it's a distant third behind Technique and PCL.

Sez who? This remains my vote for the greatest album of all-time so thank you Bee OK for the poll. But Soto, you're right about this:

The album traks are probably NO's slowest growers, but once they do they sink deep

Quite true and part of the reason it's my all-time fave album (see also Exile, Ghost Dog, etc.). All that hard work on it pays off so beautifully.

I'm going with "Sooner Than You Think" as much for its placement on the album as for its relaxed yet somehow still white-knuckled modulations. After flushing Joy Division out of their system for good with "Elegia," New Order ups the ante on the survival sweepstakes and make it through a song that shifts into three different cognitive registers in its first minute. And, as usual, they do it by keeping us guessing where the song is going and what the hell they're on about. Which is why the chorus is so genius because, of course, we don't know what they mean, oh no we don't. It's New Order saying "we're built to last." "Sooner Than You Think" will outlive the cockroaches. It'll be the only song standing for those aliens at the end of A.I.: Artifical Intelligence who will mutter "ah so this is what prog rock is. Soooooo much better than we were led to believe..."

Bimble, you ever hear New Order's "Turn The Heater On"? Barney going all Augustus Pablo. It's fantastic... and I think Radiohead appropriated part of its melody on their last album.

Kevin, well said. I first heard "Sooner Than You Think" on a live BBC Radio show and it was utterly confounding at first. Holy fuck, I just checked YouTube before posting and it's up there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDrAM4tjIbU

I remember Barney seemingly being pissed off for a lot of this session, at one point ("In a Lonely Place"?) haranguing Steven for drumming too slowly!

Don't want to derail by linking to a non-Low-Life video, but yeah, it was "In A Lonely Place". It's kind of funny, worth watching.

It's funny how for years this was the consensus favorite, and now it's a distant third behind Technique and PCL.

Sez who?

Rolling Stone and Trouser Press' guides for the eighties all listed Low-Life as the keeper.

Nice job on "Sooner Than You Think," though.

Only love for you.

I love those BBC Radio 1 sessions. Thanx for the link(s), Lostandfound!

Just stumbled on them thanks to this thread, but yeah, they're amazing. Some nice stuff on there (YouTube) from the Hacienda in '83 too.

Of course I've heard New Order's cover of "Turn The Heater On", you silly goose! It's brilliant stuff, thanks for the You Tube candy.

Look, we all know Love Vigilantes is going to win this poll. It's done. Over. And I can't help it that you are RONG to vote for that over Perfect Kiss. RONG ALL OVER THE PLACE RONG. But hey...

Anyway, I plan to vote for either "This Time Of Night" or "Sooner Than You Think". I will decide very soon.

Challops edition #1:

Perfect Kiss > True Faith > Blue Monday > Bizarre Love Triangle > Shellshock

Looks about right to me. Where's "Temptation"?

Hahahahah I knew someone was going to ask that! LOLOLOLOLOL

No but really "This Time Of Night" is pretty goddamn goth, man. I mean WOAH and you know, fucking Sunrise is goth too and oh god. No, I have to narrow it down. How much time do I have to vote in this poll again?

That "Sooner Than You Think" video upthread is just TOO DOPE man, TOO DOPE.

anyway darling you're paying tribute to Barney's lyrics honey now what else do you want?

no I can't do it I told you i CAN'T CHOOSE THIS ALBUM I CAN'T DO IT

How so? (Serious question.)

maybe it's the shorts.

Voted "Run" but don't really understand why lots of people consider this their best. For me, it's "Republic" or "Low Life" all the way.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, October 1, 2007

almost 100 posts and still no Geir?

(from the above Technique poll link)

I dunno. Low Life has always appealed to me the most because it's seemingly NO's bitterest and angriest sounding record. I also feel it's the first to really develop that JD bleakness - which has always struck me as a very internal sort of bleakness - into a more extroverted model and really let ROAR. The first time I saw NO live was on their tour for this album and I remember the band's overall attitude and approach to the songs as aggressive and pretty furious tempo-wise and sonically. Technique, Brotherhood (though it still has some of that aggro Low Life energy) or Republic, though having their merits, still come across to me as too polished or studied compared to Low Life.

P.S. Lostandfound, you're slowly becoming my fave poster. :)

I have no doubt that, at some point, I'll let you down. :(

Lost & Found, don't give up on me yet. Just wait...

I never give up on the good guys.

Good post, Jay Vee, btw. Good posts, everyone, to be fair. Why are New Order threads almost always so brilliant?

oh how I cannot bear the thought of you

Actually, I remember in sixth form -- 1992? -- idly scribbling this lyric on the edge of my English Lit folder and my mate Woose -- who pretty much loathed everything New Order stood for and listened to nothing but Bowie, Led Zep and, umm, The Stairs -- saying what an incredible line it was. In or out of context, I think it's mildly wonderful.

And -- listening to the album now for the first time since this thread popped up -- I realise I'm being unfairly dismissive of Sunrise, both lyrically and musically. I'm not sure what it is about this album ... there are some great moments, but not enough points at which (for me) it truly soars. Which I know is what a lot of folk would say about Brotherhood, which I much prefer ... hey ho.

And a kind-of immediate experiential example of what I'm talking about ... I just watched the Haçienda Sunrise clip linked above and yeh, it's fucking awesome. But then I noticed there was a link to As It Is When It Was at the same gig ... and that one had me spellbound.

I guess, for me, one of the reasons I love this band is that so many of the songs have such a dramatic effect on me -- even after all these years, they'll jolt my attention away from what I'm doing, send shivers down my spine, put tears in my eyes, whatever -- and yet nothing on Low-life ever really has that effect.

Last post here this morning. Promise. But this one's a pisser: now that I've heard/acquired the full-length version of Elegia, I get the same "aw, fuck" thing when the album version fades out as I get with TPK.

Doesn't make me want to change my vote, though.

I never got the love for Elegia myself, I would pick any other track on this record over it. It doesn't seem to really go anywhere or do anything, its just a bit inert. I fully expect to be in a minority of one on that though.

No I agree. It's probably my least favorite song here. But I think it's the most necessary cut on the album.

I also feel it's the first to really develop that JD bleakness - which has always struck me as a very internal sort of bleakness - into a more extroverted model and really let ROAR. (Capitaine Jay Vee),

Beyond OTM! And this is why, in a nutshell, I infinitely prefer NO to JD.

there are some great moments, but not enough points at which (for me) it truly soars. Which I know is what a lot of folk would say about Brotherhood,

Actually, I find Brotherhood soars way more than Low-Life. But they needed to go through Low-Life in order to soar so high. It's where they not only blossomed into extrovertedness but also learned to balance it off with not giving too much away. And the struggle to arrive at that point makes it the superior album, both conceptually and viscerally.

But Brotherhood is easily my second favorite NO. And it contains their absolute apex, "All Day Long."

Goddamn, great posts, y'all. "(T)hey'll jolt my attention away from what I'm doing, send shivers down my spine, put tears in my eyes, whatever." Yes, all that!

Why are New Order fans such "up" kinds of persons? ;)

The whole JD vs NO thing I've struggled with since, well, Movement. Nowadays, I just accept that I lean toward JD on certain days which are (thankfully, from a mental health perspective) more rare. Anyway, it makes sense to prefer New Order more often due to their far larger body of work. More to love.

As for individual New Order albums, I pretty much can't decide any more. I'm almost positive I'm repeating myself here, but I can't think of any band that had a run of albums so consistently brilliant as the Movement, PC&L, Low-Life, Brotherhood, Technique five-in-a-row. It's like the musical equivalent of a Royal Flush or something.

It's a false dichotomy, in my mind -- they're the same band. JD's music was often ecstatic.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

every song gets a vote, nice job ILM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZDYqu2T_tg

"I like fucking in the park, when it gets late at night"

i love Barney's reworked lyrics in this clip. it's very homosexual, brilliant.

I'm surprised by Sooner Than You Think doing quite so well, and very surprised by Elegia scoring so low. I guess it just goes to show how out-of-step my thinking on this album is :)

It's like the musical equivalent of a Royal Flush or something

I've written vaguely about this elsewhere, but yes, you're absolutely right. I got into New Order in the late eighties, when I was 13/14: first with Substance, then with (the newly released) Technique, and worked my way back (to Joy Division too, obviously). And I maintain it gave me completely unrealistic expectations of what bands were capable of. Hey ho.

I don't like "Love Vigilantes" much at all actually. Everything else on here is varying degrees of great. I'd probably go for "The Perfect Kiss", but tempted by "Sunrise" and "This Time of Night".

whatever love vigilantes is the shit

grimly, yeah, and if you throw in the two Joy Division studio albums, that's a run of seven, which is pretty astonishing. (I'm definitely getting a deja vu feeling about this conversation, though.)

I'm new to New Order. Just listening to Low-Life right now, after loving "Movement". Jealous?

Ok, you're probably not jealous, but damn, this is amazing! I'm angry that no one has taken the time to shake me and scream, "You need to listen to New Order, you dumb asshole!"

I'm jealous of anyone listening to this album when I'm not.

since making this poll, i have bought the 2CD reissue of Low-life but have yet to open it. now might be the right time.

"Sunrise" is a megajam. plus -> "Elegia", top elegant transition.

I think this is the one NO album with only dope jams, with nothing I want to skip.

My favorite New Order songs are Ceremony, Dreams Never End, Cries And Whispers, Procession, Temptation, Age of Consent. These songs represent the early, transitional New Order (from Joy Division) and I wish there was more like this. I've tried listening to other Factory releases from this era to find more songs like this, to no avail. If anyone knows where I can find more synthy, post-punky, motorik early NewOrder style music I would be very grateful!

check out the Red Turns To 12", probably fits the bill, easily in my top 5 FACs

Wow, I'm glad I asked. You nailed it.

Have you tried the Wake's first two albums? One mimics Movement, the other Low-Life.

Wow no kidding

This board rules

I would have voted for 'The Perfect Kiss' if I'd been around at the time... I much much prefer the LONG version of that track, though!

"face up" should be no. 1

That synth intro with the ominous voice sampling.

Should have been a sub-poll for people to select their favorite album cover.

me in the middle of "sunrise": "this is the best album ever made"

me in the middle of "elegia": "this is the BEST album EVER MADE"

just imagine how much better this album would be with the full length "the perfect kiss" and "elegia."

i can imagine how much longer it would be

While we're in imaginary land, I imagine this album with the Record Mirror mix of Subculture in addition to the full length TPK. Not sure i'd like the extended Elegia on an album. Full Elegia would have made a nice single sided bonus 12" with Saville designed etching on the flipside.

I can listen to short "Elegia", though it makes me crave the longer version, but I can't do the short "Perfect Kiss". The 12" is the best 12" by anyone ever probably. That's my wall to loving the album.

Listening to the long version and each discrete riff, I think, "How can they get away with something that sounds so easy?"

never really liked the way this sounds but i think it's just a problem with whichever issue i have, i just checked out the 2015 remaster on spotify and it's a clear improvement

i still think it's a step below pc&l, brotherhood, and technique, never quite hits the same highs and really suffers from having inferior versions of "the perfect kiss" and "sub-culture". "sunrise" is pretty great though.

"This Time of Night" compensates too.

I saw this tour in 1985. They opened with "Sunrise," which was an absolute barn-burner. I suppose that would be my sentimental pick, but honestly my emotional connection to this album is such that trying to pick a favorite song from it is like trying to pick a favorite child.

Guessing if we polled the covers it would be Morris>Sumner>Gillian>Hooky

Did the box set of this get delayed? It was next in line, I believe. Could be some good bonus material if it ever surfaces.

“perfect kiss” album version is not anywhere near as good as “perfect kiss” extended but it’s the right length for the album and it’s still a great song

this is their best record. undeniable to me

it’s an absolutely fantastic record to put on during a breezy, sunny fall morning.

Low-Life box set has been a good friend this winter - easily my fave album of theirs. I saw the Santa Monica Civic show in 1985, that see-saw between all the machines crashing and charging ahead when they do. "Elegia" could have gone longer!